Sponsored

Diesel Performance

Matstock4

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Threads
19
Messages
318
Reaction score
432
Location
North Bay Area of CA
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon, 2018 Jeep Wrangler JLU, 2017 Toyota Sienna, 1989 Turbo Trans Am
My last series of cars and trucks all had V8s or turbo powered V6s. My wife's JLU has the 3.6 with the manual and I have not been impressed. I hear the auto opens that engine up a little bit better, but with my background I am just spoiled.

The diesel power metrics of 260hp w/ 440ft-lb of torque in comparison to the 285hp/260ft-lb of the 3.6 I am expecting the diesel to knock the doors off! So I searched a basic metric of 0-60 of the Grand Cherokee and it's a half second slower or so than the gas V6?

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/jeep-0-60-mph-times/

I have heard it's all about the low end power/torque when it comes to diesel. Great for towing and hauling, but is it just that it can get that high end performance and speed? What am I missing here? I obviously have never owned a diesel so help me out. If the 3.0 diesel can't tow as much as the gasser then what are the diesel folks looking forward to? Like a lot of people I'm trying to figure out if it's worth the wait and expense. Thanks!!
Sponsored

 

Limamikemike

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Threads
1
Messages
47
Reaction score
50
Location
Edmonton
Vehicle(s)
2015 Powerwagon
Occupation
Aircraft Mechanic
Are the trans ratios the same in the 8 speed in the gas and the diesel for the GC? What about final drive ratios?

I do know the Diesel HD rams the final drive ratios are higher than the gas trucks, consequently the gas trucks feel quicker off the line. Also does the 3.0 ED have any ECM torque management? I know the HD diesels have it, when its tuned out holy crap does that 8000lb pig move.
 

smlobx

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Threads
65
Messages
2,063
Reaction score
3,284
Location
Mid Atlantic
Vehicle(s)
JTR, F-350 diesel, Porsche Spyder, Model Y
Occupation
Semi retired consultant
We have a 2014 ED GC and have never felt the need for additional power. As long as you realize that this will not win any drag races you’ll be fine.
 

WXman

Banned
Banned
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Threads
69
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
4,067
Location
Bluegrass region of Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Gladiator Overland EcoDiesel
Occupation
Meteorology and Transportation
My last series of cars and trucks all had V8s or turbo powered V6s. My wife's JLU has the 3.6 with the manual and I have not been impressed. I hear the auto opens that engine up a little bit better, but with my background I am just spoiled.

The diesel power metrics of 260hp w/ 440ft-lb of torque in comparison to the 285hp/260ft-lb of the 3.6 I am expecting the diesel to knock the doors off! So I searched a basic metric of 0-60 of the Grand Cherokee and it's a half second slower or so than the gas V6?

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/jeep-0-60-mph-times/

I have heard it's all about the low end power/torque when it comes to diesel. Great for towing and hauling, but is it just that it can get that high end performance and speed? What am I missing here? I obviously have never owned a diesel so help me out. If the 3.0 diesel can't tow as much as the gasser then what are the diesel folks looking forward to? Like a lot of people I'm trying to figure out if it's worth the wait and expense. Thanks!!
That is correct. If it's performance you want, avoid the diesel. They operate at lower RPMs than gas engines, and they have lower horsepower, and therefore they are slower.

As you noted, the beauty of a diesel is its torque output due to that long stroke they have. They are ideal for towing and also for highway cruising. You can speed up without having the transmission downshift. Once you get used to the feel, it's addictive. Being able to apply light pedal effort and feel the rush of torque...it's just awesome. This is also why they get great MPGs.

But they are certainly not fast and nimble. The 3.6L with the 850RE will eat a diesel for lunch. Mine with a 2.5" lift and 35" mud tires will still run high 6 second 0-60 sprints. It's fun.
 

Sponsored

OP
OP
Matstock4

Matstock4

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Threads
19
Messages
318
Reaction score
432
Location
North Bay Area of CA
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon, 2018 Jeep Wrangler JLU, 2017 Toyota Sienna, 1989 Turbo Trans Am
That is correct. If it's performance you want, avoid the diesel. They operate at lower RPMs than gas engines, and they have lower horsepower, and therefore they are slower.

As you noted, the beauty of a diesel is its torque output due to that long stroke they have. They are ideal for towing and also for highway cruising. You can speed up without having the transmission downshift. Once you get used to the feel, it's addictive. Being able to apply light pedal effort and feel the rush of torque...it's just awesome. This is also why they get great MPGs.

But they are certainly not fast and nimble. The 3.6L with the 850RE will eat a diesel for lunch. Mine with a 2.5" lift and 35" mud tires will still run high 6 second 0-60 sprints. It's fun.
Thanks for the info and confirming some of my thoughts. It just amazes me that with the 260hp/440ft-lb it didn't just blow the 3.6 out of the water. I hope the towing penalty for the diesel is only 500lbs difference. I think taking a midsized truck close to the max capacity isn't smart, but I will be more confident getting close to the max with a diesel. I think my towing reservation is more of a size thing than power. So if the penalty isn't a big one then it will not make a difference to me as I am not going to tow more than 6k with the Rubi or more than 7k with the Sport. Where the trouble may lie for my purposes is the payload capacity. Especially towing with a family of 5 and a dog. If there's any difference there then I will be out on the diesel. Any thoughts and speculation on the diesel's payload capacity??
 

WXman

Banned
Banned
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Threads
69
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
4,067
Location
Bluegrass region of Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Gladiator Overland EcoDiesel
Occupation
Meteorology and Transportation
Thanks for the info and confirming some of my thoughts. It just amazes me that with the 260hp/440ft-lb it didn't just blow the 3.6 out of the water. I hope the towing penalty for the diesel is only 500lbs difference. I think taking a midsized truck close to the max capacity isn't smart, but I will be more confident getting close to the max with a diesel. I think my towing reservation is more of a size thing than power. So if the penalty isn't a big one then it will not make a difference to me as I am not going to tow more than 6k with the Rubi or more than 7k with the Sport. Where the trouble may lie for my purposes is the payload capacity. Especially towing with a family of 5 and a dog. If there's any difference there then I will be out on the diesel. Any thoughts and speculation on the diesel's payload capacity??
In my experience, payload capacity is the #1 wildcard with a 1/2-ton truck (regardless of whether it's full size or mid size). You're right that with a family of 5 you will run out of capacity very quickly. I had a 2013 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab 4x4 a few years ago and it had a payload of around 1,100 lbs. By the time my family of 5 got into the truck, I had 360 lbs. of capacity remaining. That meant I couldn't even load my ATV into the back of the truck without being overloaded. I certainly couldn't connect a heavy trailer at that point.

That's why I think the Max Towing Group is such an important option on Gladiator. That extra 500 lbs. of payload really goes a long way. Unfortunately, it's only going to be offered on Sport models with the 3.6L V6 gas engine.

The diesel will be the heaviest engine/transmission option in the entire lineup and so I expect a Rubicon with the diesel will likely have a curb weight of around 5,200 lbs. The GVW is a fixed number, which means as curb weight goes up, payload goes down. So, the diesel will probably have the least payload and lowest towing numbers.
 
OP
OP
Matstock4

Matstock4

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Threads
19
Messages
318
Reaction score
432
Location
North Bay Area of CA
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon, 2018 Jeep Wrangler JLU, 2017 Toyota Sienna, 1989 Turbo Trans Am
The diesel will be the heaviest engine/transmission option in the entire lineup and so I expect a Rubicon with the diesel will likely have a curb weight of around 5,200 lbs. The GVW is a fixed number, which means as curb weight goes up, payload goes down. So, the diesel will probably have the least payload and lowest towing numbers.
I think you're likely right on this... Except the only hope I have is that on the Chevy ZR2 the diesel is indeed heavier, but has the same tow and payload capacities. Odd right?
 

MOPAR Boy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mopy
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
172
Reaction score
99
Location
The Moon
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTRD
The Gladiator diesel motor will cost way more in its initial purchase price than the gasser, can tow substantially less, provides only marginally better mileage, diesel fuel costs oh, such much more than gasoline, and the diesel motor is much, much more costly to maintain and repair. However, all of these negative cost factors are more than offset by the awesome sound of the diesel motor, and the overall coolness factor of owning and driving a diesel car. I, like so many other Jeep diesel fanboys, am more than willing to pay an extra $10,000+ more for the coveted diesel over the lamo little gas motor.
 

Sorbs

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian & Sunny
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Threads
18
Messages
858
Reaction score
1,590
Location
Colorado Springs
Vehicle(s)
2021 Ram TRX, 2020 Gladiator LE
Vehicle Showcase
1
I’ve a 2015 EcoDiesel GC and a 2018 JLR 3.6L. The EcoDiesel has turbo lag. There, I said it. Once going, it hauls beans. The 3.6L hauls beans at the get go.

After 4 years living with the diesel I can say I’m done paying the added expenses. DEF is a stupid idea, freezes at 8°, and leaves white residue needing to be cleaned up as soon as you’re done spilling it all over the quarter panel whilst never getting the DEF tank full. For distilled water and urea, I don’t see the cost of it justified at all. Oil changes cost more and diesel fuel costs more.

I’m getting the same mileage around town in both Jeeps. On the freeway the diesel gets 4 MPG better but the added cost and hassle still doesn’t make up the difference.

Since I did purchase the LE, and am trading/selling my GC, I’ve made my choice between the two options pretty clear. Don’t get me wrong, if the price and availabilty were the same, I’d lean toward the diesel again, but I’ve experienced that it’s not worth the added expense at purchase, doesn’t justify the higher upkeep costs, and the PITA looking for fuel and DEF for daily driving.
 

Sponsored

MOPAR Boy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mopy
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
172
Reaction score
99
Location
The Moon
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTRD
My point exactly: Costs a lot more, but that awesome diesel sound makes it oh, so worthwhile!
 

Sorbs

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian & Sunny
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Threads
18
Messages
858
Reaction score
1,590
Location
Colorado Springs
Vehicle(s)
2021 Ram TRX, 2020 Gladiator LE
Vehicle Showcase
1
My point exactly: Costs a lot more, but that awesome diesel sound makes it oh, so worthwhile!
Well, it doesn’t come with that diesel sound. The EcoDiesel was actually designed by GM when they owned VM for European Cadillac cars. It’s very quiet. Most people who ride in ours have no clue it’s a diesel.
 

WXman

Banned
Banned
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Threads
69
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
4,067
Location
Bluegrass region of Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Gladiator Overland EcoDiesel
Occupation
Meteorology and Transportation
I think you're likely right on this... Except the only hope I have is that on the Chevy ZR2 the diesel is indeed heavier, but has the same tow and payload capacities. Odd right?
Last I checked, the ZR2 with Duramax is limited to only 5,000 lbs. towing.
 

kd1yt

Well-Known Member
First Name
Trevor
Joined
Apr 6, 2019
Threads
31
Messages
296
Reaction score
310
Location
VT 05640
Vehicle(s)
2020 Gladiator JT Sport S Red, 2014 Ural sidecar 2wd motorcycle, '51 Dodge M37
I'm currently driving a 2015 4wd Quad Cab Ram 1500 3.0 Ecodiesel (same engine. more or less, that will be in the JT) and I have generally been very happy with it. It was nice 100% stock, and I have gotten, truly, hand-calculated, 28 MPG with it under ideal conditions of clear cruising around 50-55 on open rural 2 lane highways. I average in the low 20s during VT winters and mid 20s in VT summers. It tows with great ease and gusto, including things as heavy as a car carrier with another 4500lb vehicle on it, or a big dropdeck trailer with a 4000+ milling machine on it. A little-publicized company called Green Diesel Engineering (GDE) (I don't know if it is acceptable to post their web address here- I am sure that you can find them via Google) does an ECU swap that wakes it up substantially without stressing anything, improves MPG a modest but nice amount, reduces turbo lag, leaves the EGR shut off so that you don't end up with an intake system caked with baked-in soot+blowby, and causes you to go through the DEF a lot less quickly. GDE has done ECU offerings for the diesel Jeep Liberty, the diesel Grand Cherokee, and the Ram 3.0 Ecodiesel, so it seems likely that they may come out with one for the JL/JT. The turbo lag (even after the GDE, and it is less after the GDE) is a bit of a drawback if you really need to scoot around a corner rapidly in close quarters in a crowded urban intersection- you have a moment of modest power and then in justg about a single second, vavoom, almost more power than you were aiming for. In anything other than urban driving the lag is a non-issue at least to me. Traveling range is vast, between the MPG and the Ram's 25 gallon tank, I've literally, under ideal conditions, gone 700 miles between fill-ups, and typically get around 600 miles even under non-ideal for MPG driving conditions. If you change own oil, the service cost isn't that bad, since it has 10,000 mile oil change intervals- BUT it does take a scarce and somewhat expensive oil filter cartridge, and is spec'd to only be used with some slightly less-than-widespread spec low-ash diesel lube oil. I think Rotella synthetic now meets that spec.

Gale Banks has done some cool stuff with the 3.0 diesel V6, including some insanely high output build of it for an un-named specialized light military vehicle. If you own a 3.0 in a state without inspections, or otherwise "don't drive on the road' you can probably wake it up to a nearly ridiculous degree, and probably without a lot of internal 'build' to do it.

Just to be clear, I have no affiliation with GDE mentioned above, except as a happy customer.

The Ram 1500 3.0 diesel is my third diesel vehicle, following a 2006 5.9 Cummins Ram 2500 (which I wish I had kept) an a 1991 non turbo 7.3 F350 4x4 DRW. The Ram 3.0 is probably the most sane all-around vehicle of any of those, and I have been very happy with it. BUT modern diesels have become so complex that (even though I have done a lot of work on a lot of vehicles, my own and others) I do not want to own a 'modern' diesel like the Ram 3.0 when it is old or high mileage.

I am looking forward to getting a JT fairly soon as long as I can find a dealer who will help me order the specific features I want and will not try to stick it to me on price for a vehicle that'll likely be in high demand, but, because (1) I definitely want the manual 6 speed, and (2) I definitely anticipated keeping the JT for a very long time and (see above) I do not want to own an old or high mile modern diesel, I will definitely be getting the 3.6 Pentastar gasoline engine in my JT.

Hope the above user-observations as someone who has had an FCA truck with this same 3.0 diesel are informative to those of you who may be considering it for the JT
Sponsored

 
 



Top