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What if: No Diesel?

Ole Cowboy

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Yes, history is indeed our friend. Which is why I would not hold my breath waiting for the EcoDiesel in the Gladiator.

Since FCA took control of Chrysler many years ago now, they've had a track record of delayed launches of new vehicles. And then once the vehicles did launch they have had a record of getting them to market very slowly. Many times this has been due to issues with quality or vehicle calibration. A great example would be the new Cherokee, which got stocked on the factory lots for months before even being released to dealers after they found "issues" that needed to be resolved with the 9-speed transmissions, as well as other things. And those delays have trickled down to individual options on specific vehicles as well. Nothing FCA has ever done in the U.S. has happened on time.

They've been promising the EcoDiesel to the JL guys for two full calendar years now. Go over to the JL side and see if you can do a search and dig up those old threads. And we all know that the Ram 1500 is the creme of the crop for FCA...they will give it the EcoDiesel before any other vehicle in the line-up. Right now they're claiming "Q4 2019" which likely means between Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday for the Ram. So that puts Jeep at calendar year 2021 at the earliest, IF if happens at all. With the emissions scandals, monetary pay-backs to current EcoDiesel owners ongoing, production issues, higher cost of diesel fuel, mechanical issues that low sulfur diesel has created in the U.S. because of the EPA, and all the other things...I don't see any reason why we should feel like the EcoDiesel is a 100% certainty.

If the EcoDiesel were open for ordering last month when I placed my order, I would have strongly considered it. But I've been a Mopar guy for nearly 20 years and I've learned not to wait around on them for "what ifs".
I can take everything you wrote and substitute almost any auto mfg and it will read the same. I buy Jeeps, Ford trucks, John Deere, GM products and have all in the barn now. Jeep is not different...We have only been waiting on a mid-engine Corvette since the 60's and next month they show it to us. Try waiting on something for 50+ years!!!
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bgenlvtex

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The EPA, some facts: They are the MOST POWERFUL Agency in the US GOVT, they make the FBI, CIA pale by comparison. The EPA has unlimited authority to control gases and liquids...Water and the very air we breathe. Got a BBQ in the backyard, a pool, a roof, you EXHALE Carbon Dioxide, then they can and will control you, your property, you land and they can take your land with or without real justification.

The EPA would make Hitler PROUD!

The EPA under Obama weaponized itself with major munitions buys in excess of $100 MILLION in bullets, guns (full auto AR's) and the establishment of a Police force!
More accurately the Zero Administration weaponized the EPA to forward their globalist agenda and punish their political opponents in a fashion very similar to the way they did the IRS (Lois Lerner), the FBI (Comey, McCabe, Baker and more) the CIA (Brennan), the State Department(Clinton), the DOJ (Lynch and Holder), but I digress this isn't about the most corrupt criminal empire to masquerade as public servants in American history.
 

Ole Cowboy

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More accurately the Zero Administration weaponized the EPA to forward their globalist agenda and punish their political opponents in a fashion very similar to the way they did the IRS (Lois Lerner), the FBI (Comey, McCabe, Baker and more) the CIA (Brennan), the State Department(Clinton), the DOJ (Lynch and Holder), but I digress this isn't about the most corrupt criminal empire to masquerade as public servants in American history.
BINGO!!!!
 

MeanMrWolf

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Not sure what the hate on with the EPA is; are any of you old enough to remember the days prior to mandated exhaust output and fuel economy limits? If not, take a tour of China to see what air pollution looks like.

I suspect the delays are based partly on the fact FCA was also caught cheating on diesel emissions alongside VW. They are having to reprogram, test, test, and retest before getting them certified.

2020 model JLs were supposed to introduce a BHEV powertrain, and that's completely silent now as well. BHEV in the JL or JT would suit me perfectly. Drive the daily drive on battery, and my 2-3 week 1400km trips to West Michigan and back would kick onto gas as needed. Imagine rock crawling on battery - instant access to all your torque. Hell, the JT even has more room for extended range with the ability to add a larger battery.

I'd love the ecodiesel, but the more I think of it, the more the horrible mileage is starting to make me reconsider the JT when it's time to retire my trailhawk.
 

bgenlvtex

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Not sure what the hate on with the EPA is; are any of you old enough to remember the days prior to mandated exhaust output and fuel economy limits? If not, take a tour of China to see what air pollution looks like.

I suspect the delays are based partly on the fact FCA was also caught cheating on diesel emissions alongside VW. They are having to reprogram, test, test, and retest before getting them certified.

2020 model JLs were supposed to introduce a BHEV powertrain, and that's completely silent now as well. BHEV in the JL or JT would suit me perfectly. Drive the daily drive on battery, and my 2-3 week 1400km trips to West Michigan and back would kick onto gas as needed. Imagine rock crawling on battery - instant access to all your torque. Hell, the JT even has more room for extended range with the ability to add a larger battery.

I'd love the ecodiesel, but the more I think of it, the more the horrible mileage is starting to make me reconsider the JT when it's time to retire my trailhawk.
LOL, @58 I'm old enough to have lived the entire evolution of emissions controls.

I'm also old enough to know that no matter how strict the US EPA is, NONE OF THAT applies in China, Russia, Anywhere on the African continent, the Middle East or any of the remaining variety of third world shitholes. The atmosphere working like it does means that their emissions are our emissions.

Tier IV emissions are unnecessary, unreliable, expensive, and ineffective.

Why the hate for the EPA? Because the EPA has no useful function and does little more than drive the American economy offshore.
 

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RedTRex

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Diesel seems to be one of the polarizing topics on this forum. Hmmph. I am at a loss as to what I would actually do as I vowed I would not buy a new Jeep with the same engine (3,6). Perhaps i am optimistic but i seriously believe we will see JLs and JTs with diesels next spring.
 

bgenlvtex

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Diesel seems to be one of the polarizing topics on this forum. Hmmph. I am at a loss as to what I would actually do as I vowed I would not buy a new Jeep with the same engine (3,6). Perhaps i am optimistic but i seriously believe we will see JLs and JTs with diesels next spring.
I love diesels, I had an '85 NA6.9 (Ford), '96 Cummins B 5.9, '01 Cummins B 5.9, '06 Cummins B5.9, all of them amazingly good engines.

And then they started strapping shit on them that doesn't belong on them, that the engine wasn't designed to use. Adding thousands in costs and introducing dependability issues on otherwise astonishingly dependable engines. Engines that contribute minuscule amounts of emissions compared to locomotives, planes, ships, deck engines and more importantly mother nature. A single volcanic eruption will introduce more particulate matter into the atmosphere than every internal combustion engine on the planet will for the duration of their service life. All in the name of virtue signaling, hoping the hapless dolts will be convinced that if they will just give the politicians some more money in the form of taxes and regulation they will save the planet. This is the same flawed thought process as giving an alcoholic more liquor to cure his alcoholism.

I hope you and everyone else gets their diesel, I hope they are jam up and jelly tight, I hope they are a $1500 option and that they fix the cooling so it will tow something, I'm really not trying to rain on your parade.

HOWEVER, I hope every mofo at the EPA's finger punches through the toilet paper every time they wipe their ass for the rest of their lives.
 

Ole Cowboy

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Not sure what the hate on with the EPA is; are any of you old enough to remember the days prior to mandated exhaust output and fuel economy limits? If not, take a tour of China to see what air pollution looks like.

I suspect the delays are based partly on the fact FCA was also caught cheating on diesel emissions alongside VW. They are having to reprogram, test, test, and retest before getting them certified.

2020 model JLs were supposed to introduce a BHEV powertrain, and that's completely silent now as well. BHEV in the JL or JT would suit me perfectly. Drive the daily drive on battery, and my 2-3 week 1400km trips to West Michigan and back would kick onto gas as needed. Imagine rock crawling on battery - instant access to all your torque. Hell, the JT even has more room for extended range with the ability to add a larger battery.

I'd love the ecodiesel, but the more I think of it, the more the horrible mileage is starting to make me reconsider the JT when it's time to retire my trailhawk.
Yea, maybe a little, bought my first car in 1964...

In case you missed it:
"The EPA, some facts: They are the MOST POWERFUL Agency in the US GOVT, they make the FBI, CIA pale by comparison. The EPA has unlimited authority to control gases and liquids...Water and the very air we breathe. Got a BBQ in the backyard, a pool, a roof, you EXHALE Carbon Dioxide, then they can and will control you, your property, you land and they can take your land with or without real justification.

The EPA would make Hitler PROUD!

The EPA under Obama weaponized itself with major munitions buys in excess of $100 MILLION in bullets, guns (full auto AR's) and the establishment of a Police force!"
 

PK2

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LOL, @58 I'm old enough to have lived the entire evolution of emissions controls.

I'm also old enough to know that no matter how strict the US EPA is, NONE OF THAT applies in China, Russia, Anywhere on the African continent, the Middle East or any of the remaining variety of third world shitholes. The atmosphere working like it does means that their emissions are our emissions.

Tier IV emissions are unnecessary, unreliable, expensive, and ineffective.

Why the hate for the EPA? Because the EPA has no useful function and does little more than drive the American economy offshore.
Yes, having travelled to China, Vietnam, Cuba and Mexico over the past 3 years, I am convinced that nothing we do in Australia in regards to pollution and emissions will make a scrap of difference to the planet overall. All we are doing is increasing our costs astronomically as the Greenies highjack our economy.
 

Gladiator4Runner

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I love diesels, I had an '85 NA6.9 (Ford), '96 Cummins B 5.9, '01 Cummins B 5.9, '06 Cummins B5.9, all of them amazingly good engines.

And then they started strapping shit on them that doesn't belong on them, that the engine wasn't designed to use. Adding thousands in costs and introducing dependability issues on otherwise astonishingly dependable engines. Engines that contribute minuscule amounts of emissions compared to locomotives, planes, ships, deck engines and more importantly mother nature. A single volcanic eruption will introduce more particulate matter into the atmosphere than every internal combustion engine on the planet will for the duration of their service life. All in the name of virtue signaling, hoping the hapless dolts will be convinced that if they will just give the politicians some more money in the form of taxes and regulation they will save the planet. This is the same flawed thought process as giving an alcoholic more liquor to cure his alcoholism.

I hope you and everyone else gets their diesel, I hope they are jam up and jelly tight, I hope they are a $1500 option and that they fix the cooling so it will tow something, I'm really not trying to rain on your parade.

HOWEVER, I hope every mofo at the EPA's finger punches through the toilet paper every time they wipe their ass for the rest of their lives.
How do I "like" a post x1000?!!!!
 

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Nick1941

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Im wondering how many guys like myself would tune out the emissions b.s anyway for reliability... if they "fixed" the issues of the previous generation that is. Otherwise id get a gasser until I could swap in a 5.7 or 6.4. Our JL feels peppy imo, I know the gladiator is heavier but id be ok with it for a while.
 

RedTRex

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Blasphemy!

Well --- I now modify my answer to C8. If you haven't taken a look, you should, it is fabulous. Can't wait to see one in real life. If only they would give me say $50K trade in on my C5......
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