Lug nut torque

[AdamH]

What is the factory recommended torque spec for the lug nuts?

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[Carlton]

130

 

[WXman]

The Wrangler JL specs 150 I'm pretty sure. Wouldn't think the JT would be different.

Having said that, if you torque to 130 or beyond, good luck changing a flat tire on the side of the road. Breaking that loose with a lug wrench will suck unless you're a pretty big guy.

 

[AdamH]

Thanks. I saw 130 for the JLs so that’s what I used on my JT but wanted to check

 

[Ole Cowboy]

The Wrangler JL specs 150 I'm pretty sure. Wouldn't think the JT would be different.

Having said that, if you torque to 130 or beyond, good luck changing a flat tire on the side of the road. Breaking that loose with a lug wrench will suck unless you're a pretty big guy.

YEP, that 150 is based upon anti-seize compound being used. If you don't use that stuff somewhere down the road at tire changing time you can snap those lug nuts off or spin them in the hub. They actually make a lug nut splitter that you put on the lug nut and tighten down a bolt to split it...

 

[bgenlvtex]

Unless specifically indicated otherwise wheel nut torque specifications for passenger and light truck vehicles are always "dry" meaning no lubrication of any kind.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Unless specifically indicated otherwise wheel nut torque specifications for passenger and light truck vehicles are always "dry" meaning no lubrication of any kind.

True, but I do not buy into that line of thought.

Here is the issue(s): Salt on roads in the winter, rain all the time. I try to always use anti-seize on those threads, if not then a bit of THIN oil and then wipe the threads clean. Thin-oil (3 in 1, WD 40 or any very light oil will work, apply wipe and it will leave enough in the pores and threads to keep it from rusting. Don't use grease or other heavy high viscosity oils.

Rust and corrosion are your enemies. Too many times I have snapped lug bolts, had them spin in the press-fit socket or had to crack the nut and then hammer out the lug bolt.

Generally, this came on older low mileage cars that came into the shop. Folks buy a car, maybe drive a few miles to work and after 6, 7 years and longer they come in to replace those dry rot tires.

Rust & Salt corrosion will literally weld 2 pieces of metal together.

 

[bgenlvtex]

True, but I do not buy into that line of thought.

Here is the issue(s): Salt on roads in the winter, rain all the time. I try to always use anti-seize on those threads, if not then a bit of THIN oil and then wipe the threads clean. Thin-oil (3 in 1, WD 40 or any very light oil will work, apply wipe and it will leave enough in the pores and threads to keep it from rusting. Don't use grease or other heavy high viscosity oils.

Rust and corrosion are your enemies. Too many times I have snapped lug bolts, had them spin in the press-fit socket or had to crack the nut and then hammer out the lug bolt.

Generally, this came on older low mileage cars that came into the shop. Folks buy a car, maybe drive a few miles to work and after 6, 7 years and longer they come in to replace those dry rot tires.

Rust & Salt corrosion will literally weld 2 pieces of metal together.

Yep yep, I get it, but if you torque a fastener that is spec'd dry and you lube it, what you get isn't what you want.

 

[AggieJeep]

From the owners manual...

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Yep yep, I get it, but if you torque a fastener that is spec'd dry and you lube it, what you get isn't what you want.

This is an age-old discussion with its 2 schools of thought.

From the view of the mfg: They are correct and properly speaking yes you torque dry. BUT that is based upon new sanitary installs with new compoents. However, out in the field, the rain, muds, salt corrosion and rust take their toll. Rust and corrosion are far more damaging and can lead to failure.

I try to have a small stainless steel or brass brush in my car so when I have a need to swap tires due to a flat I can clean the threads, apply anti-seize if I have it, if not I apply oil and wipe clean. As few of us carry a calibrated torque wrench, and I have never seen a wrecker driver show up with one so the torque is something other than 130 lbs.

Most wrecker calls that need a flat changed or either a woman or the man was unable to break the lug nuts loose.

I have been very fortunate in my career. In my early days I worked in extreme clean rooms and when I torqued something down which was frequent I had to get an inspector to clear it for his inspector to certify it...yes 2 people had to inspect and certify the bolting down of every specific torque requirement. I lived in a world of extreme accuracy exacting specifications. Some of the things I worked on had altimeters, accurate enough to be able to measure how tall you were to the nearest inch. Now that is sensitivity.

Later I got to work in R&D on both the development side and the testing side. The testing side is where the rubber meets the road, we tested as used in the dirt, mud, rain, cold. hot, etc. That is reality and reality generally calls for a different set of specs and approaches.

Like I said, I have had to cut lug bolts or nuts off due to salt-rust in order to save the hub. Apply to much torque to remove and you can spin the bolt and if that occurs you generally replace the hub.

Take Away: You can live by the "chart" or you chose to live in a state of reality.

 

[bgenlvtex]

This is an age-old discussion with its 2 schools of thought.

From the view of the mfg: They are correct and properly speaking yes you torque dry. BUT that is based upon new sanitary installs with new compoents. However, out in the field, the rain, muds, salt corrosion and rust take their toll. Rust and corrosion are far more damaging and can lead to failure.

I try to have a small stainless steel or brass brush in my car so when I have a need to swap tires due to a flat I can clean the threads, apply anti-seize if I have it, if not I apply oil and wipe clean. As few of us carry a calibrated torque wrench, and I have never seen a wrecker driver show up with one so the torque is something other than 130 lbs.

Most wrecker calls that need a flat changed or either a woman or the man was unable to break the lug nuts loose.

I have been very fortunate in my career. In my early days I worked in extreme clean rooms and when I torqued something down which was frequent I had to get an inspector to clear it for his inspector to certify it...yes 2 people had to inspect and certify the bolting down of every specific torque requirement. I lived in a world of extreme accuracy exacting specifications. Some of the things I worked on had altimeters, accurate enough to be able to measure how tall you were to the nearest inch. Now that is sensitivity.

Later I got to work in R&D on both the development side and the testing side. The testing side is where the rubber meets the road, we tested as used in the dirt, mud, rain, cold. hot, etc. That is reality and reality generally calls for a different set of specs and approaches.

Like I said, I have had to cut lug bolts or nuts off due to salt-rust in order to save the hub. Apply to much torque to remove and you can spin the bolt and if that occurs you generally replace the hub.

Take Away: You can live by the "chart" or you chose to live in a state of reality.

Yep, you can throw away those torque specs and make them tight and lubricated.

Or you can use engineering specs and deal with corrosion.

Pick one, you don't get both..

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Yep, you can throw away those torque specs and make them tight and lubricated.

Or you can use engineering specs and deal with corrosion.

Pick one, you don't get both..

Tell us, we are ready to read...

Replace with SS bolts and nuts?

 

[bgenlvtex]

Tell us, we are ready to read...

Replace with SS bolts and nuts?

Tell you what?

That torque yield dry and torque yield lubricated produce entirely different clamping force at the same measured point? Surely you already knew that.

So either use the specs or don't.

If you are going to lubricate the fasteners, don't waste your time with the torque specs.

Don't believe me? Look up there about three posts up and read the last line,

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Tell you what?

That torque yield dry and torque yield lubricated produce entirely different clamping force at the same measured point? Surely you already knew that.

So either use the specs or don't.

If you are going to lubricate the fasteners, don't waste your time with the torque specs.

Don't believe me? Look up there about three posts up and read the last line,

FACTS JACK: There are 268 MILLION vehicles registered in the US.

In the United States, approximately 7 tire punctures occur every second, resulting in 220 million flat tires per year.

60 % of drivers cannot change a flat tire! So a guy in a wrecker shows up with arms like popeye and he does not carry a torque wrench.

No one travels with a calibrated torque wrench in the truck, it would be rare to even find a brass brush or even a rag to clean the threads, clean and dry is not easy to come by.

Unless you go to a major tire chain like Discount Tire, most are torqued to "strong-arm' lbs.

Rust and corrosion are worse enemies than whether or not you have clean and dry torque at 130 or 135 due to a thin layer of oil left behind after the lugs were cleaned and WIPED!

So you are RIGHT: "Pick one, you don't get both.." Your choice, the Charts or Reality...

 

[smlobx]

Interesting comments and I don’t want to argue with anyone. If people rotated their tires like they are suppose to two things would happen:

1. Your lug nuts won’t seize to the bolts
2. Your tires will last longer...

Me personally coming from a racing background and having owned too many vehicles to count I do use a small (very small) amount of copper based anti seize usually once every two years.

I’ve never lost a wheel on my Porsche’s running at over 1.0 G on the track...but we always torque our wheels before any high speed shenanigans ;-)

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