Death Wobble Cause found article

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks for the reply..
When the DW happened, it was at 70 mph and I thought something had broken underneath, it was that violent..I initially didn't know what was going on..I immediately thought the new stabilizer snapped somehow..

Why would Mopar allow this to go out like this?..If this has been an ongoing problem, why wasn't it addressed?..I mean WTF?
If I had done my due diligence properly, I would have never bought this "truck" knowing this problem..Hell, just having to put in a new stabilizer just to keep the thing running straight would've been a deal breaker..

I'm gonna try and re-torque the bolts on all the hardware..but I have a feeling I'm f*ucked like everybody else.
Not looking forward to 1800 miles in this inferior vehicle..

Thanks again..

What most are talking about is NOT what you experienced - in fact you are the first JT I've heard talk about the "death wobble". Most are talking dead space in the steering at center point - more like a loose steering sector thing.
Your's is a different issue. More like a serious caster thing, not like a worn sector or dead spot.
Negative caster will cause wander, light steering, and the vehicle to want to go left or right and need correcting. Try a grocery cart with the front wheels turned forward of the point of rotation for the caster - move ahead and the wheels will to to the side, either side.
Positive caster gives a lot of correction torque - it wants to set the steering dead ahead, like shopping cart front wheels. After a turn positive caster puts the wheels straight again. It increases force needed to turn, but makes it stable. So I'd have that thing checked for alignment, too - and assume you have made NO changes to the design - no lift, no wheels with a greater or lesser offset from stock, that sort of thing.

Again, the others don't have a wobble so much as having to move the wheel too far from center to get a response. I bet you could drive every Gladiator on a dealer lot and not get one that does what you are talking about. You might find one with wander, not wobble.
This just doesn't seem to be a general Gladiator issue for the most part. The one I test drove was stable as anything I've ever driven before - and I've driven some crap in my life as a mechanic - scary stuff for sure.

What's the 1800 miles about?

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[Desert Outlaw]

Thanks for the reply..
When the DW happened, it was at 70 mph and I thought something had broken underneath, it was that violent..I initially didn't know what was going on..I immediately thought the new stabilizer snapped somehow..

Why would Mopar allow this to go out like this?..If this has been an ongoing problem, why wasn't it addressed?..I mean WTF?
If I had done my due diligence properly, I would have never bought this "truck" knowing this problem..Hell, just having to put in a new stabilizer just to keep the thing running straight would've been a deal breaker..

I'm gonna try and re-torque the bolts on all the hardware..but I have a feeling I'm f*ucked like everybody else.
Not looking forward to 1800 miles in this inferior vehicle..

Thanks again..

This sounds like a warranty claim. The list of possible concerns that I compiled should be directed to the service advisor @Mallai

 

[Mallai]

What most are talking about is NOT what you experienced - in fact you are the first JT I've heard talk about the "death wobble". Most are talking dead space in the steering at center point - more like a loose steering sector thing.
Your's is a different issue. More like a serious caster thing, not like a worn sector or dead spot.
Negative caster will cause wander, light steering, and the vehicle to want to go left or right and need correcting. Try a grocery cart with the front wheels turned forward of the point of rotation for the caster - move ahead and the wheels will to to the side, either side.
Positive caster gives a lot of correction torque - it wants to set the steering dead ahead, like shopping cart front wheels. After a turn positive caster puts the wheels straight again. It increases force needed to turn, but makes it stable. So I'd have that thing checked for alignment, too - and assume you have made NO changes to the design - no lift, no wheels with a greater or lesser offset from stock, that sort of thing.

Again, the others don't have a wobble so much as having to move the wheel too far from center to get a response. I bet you could drive every Gladiator on a dealer lot and not get one that does what you are talking about. You might find one with wander, not wobble.
This just doesn't seem to be a general Gladiator issue for the most part. The one I test drove was stable as anything I've ever driven before - and I've driven some crap in my life as a mechanic - scary stuff for sure.

What's the 1800 miles about?

You've described what I had exactly..A dead spot at center that was loose and needed constant correction to keep the vehicle heading straight..Just glancing at the radio or dash was a chore because of the loose center..WAY too much play for a new modern vehicle..But what I'm finding out is that this is NOT a modern vehicle..So I changed the stabilizer at 300 miles and the steering was better, not perfect, but better...something I was ok with..But now I have this DW that I know the dealership is not going to give me any respect with or try to fix as there going to blame me for the stabilizer change!..There is no way in hell there not..

I am so disappointed in this purchase..My last vehicle was a '17 Ram 1500 that I loved but was too big for my daily driving..and before that was a '15 Dodge Challenger Scat pack, another great one..Why any of us are having these death wobbles for so many years is beyond any rationality..I should have done my research on these vehicles..

I will be driving this "truck" down to Georgia this week. 1800 miles round trip..Let's see how many times I have to pull over to stop the DW shaking.

Thanks for your reply..

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My 1995 F250 4x4 got to about 70,000 miles and started to have a shake at highway speeds that wasn't as bad as the "death wobble" but was certainly similar. Odd thing is that it was perfect up to that point. Not a shake or shimmy at all. And those are not SLA suspension systems either.
I figured wear - I took it to a dealer - spent over two grand on new front end parts - not better. They did everything they could think of - alignment, checked for bent parts, switched tires and wheels around - nope, get up to speed it was an uncontrollable shake up front.
I ended up trading the truck off............ I was done.
My point is - it ain't just a Jeep thing but because they sell tens of thousands more vehicles with this sort of front end - the odds are...........

 

[Tim]

You've described what I had exactly..A dead spot at center that was loose and needed constant correction to keep the vehicle heading straight..Just glancing at the radio or dash was a chore because of the loose center..WAY too much play for a new modern vehicle..But what I'm finding out is that this is NOT a modern vehicle..So I changed the stabilizer at 300 miles and the steering was better, not perfect, but better...something I was ok with..But now I have this DW that I know the dealership is not going to give me any respect with or try to fix as there going to blame me for the stabilizer change!..There is no way in hell there not..

I am so disappointed in this purchase..My last vehicle was a '17 Ram 1500 that I loved but was too big for my daily driving..and before that was a '15 Dodge Challenger Scat pack, another great one..Why any of us are having these death wobbles for so many years is beyond any rationality..I should have done my research on these vehicles..

I will be driving this "truck" down to Georgia this week. 1800 miles round trip..Let's see how many times I have to pull over to stop the DW shaking.

Thanks for your reply..

Death wobble is a phenomenon that can occur in any solid front axle vehicle. It is caused by loose or worn parts in the front suspension or steering. Your truck is new so parts are not yet worn enough for that to be the cause. You have loose parts in your front end. Most likely this happened when you upgraded the steering stabilizer. You need to check all the hardware on your front end to make sure it is torqued to proper spec. Also, if I am not mistaken the hardware from the front stabilizer must not be reused if removed. If you bought a new stabilizer and didn't install new hardware along with it that could very well be the cause of your death wobble.

"Loose" steering (excessive wander, top dead center feels vague) experienced by many other Gladiator owners is another problem entirely. You may also have that issue but it is not causing death wobble.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Death wobble is a phenomenon that can occur in any solid front axle vehicle. It is caused by loose or worn parts in the front suspension or steering. Your truck is new so parts are not yet worn enough for that to be the cause. You have loose parts in your front end. Most likely this happened when you upgraded the steering stabilizer. You need to check all the hardware on your front end to make sure it is torqued to proper spec. Also, if I am not mistaken the hardware from the front stabilizer must not be reused if removed. If you bought a new stabilizer and didn't install new hardware along with it that could very well be the cause of your death wobble.

"Loose" steering (excessive wander, top dead center feels vague) experienced by many other Gladiator owners is another problem entirely. You may also have that issue but it is not causing death wobble.

Well said - but, as far as the hardware - there's no reason not to re-use unless the size is different, metric vs. us, that sort of thing. Unless the originals are stretched out - not a problem to re-use. Where you get into trouble is with head bolts, rod bolts, main cap bolts, where the bolts are torqued and stretched and likely beyond relaxing back. But the lower torque specs on bolts such as the stabilizer shouldn't have taken the elasticity out of those bolts. I'd re-use them in a heart beat. But for certain other things were we tighten to a stretch spec, that's different! I don't like re-using rod bolts on an engine with high miles or where I don't know the history. These are so new - and the torque vales so much lower.
I'm guessing but I bet the stabilizer hardware is only grade 5, not 8.
But if you get new hardware with the parts - it's silly to not use it! Why re-use old when they give you new - well, not give, trust me, you paid for it.

 

[Tim]

Well said - but, as far as the hardware - there's no reason not to re-use unless the size is different, metric vs. us, that sort of thing. Unless the originals are stretched out - not a problem to re-use. Where you get into trouble is with head bolts, rod bolts, main cap bolts, where the bolts are torqued and stretched and likely beyond relaxing back. But the lower torque specs on bolts such as the stabilizer shouldn't have taken the elasticity out of those bolts. I'd re-use them in a heart beat. But for certain other things were we tighten to a stretch spec, that's different! I don't like re-using rod bolts on an engine with high miles or where I don't know the history. These are so new - and the torque vales so much lower.
I'm guessing but I bet the stabilizer hardware is only grade 5, not 8.
But if you get new hardware with the parts - it's silly to not use it! Why re-use old when they give you new - well, not give, trust me, you paid for it.

Agreed. I am pretty sure I read in one of these threads that FCA does not recommend re-using the stabilizer hardware. That's the only reason I mentioned it. I wouldn't have thought twice about it, either.

 

[jrf]

What would you do?

Put the stock stabilizer back on and take it back to the dealer for the original problem.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Agreed. I am pretty sure I read in one of these threads that FCA does not recommend re-using the stabilizer hardware. That's the only reason I mentioned it. I wouldn't have thought twice about it, either.

If FCA said that then - what the heck. Follow their lead, I guess.
It is a steering part, and could see some stresses and wear. I guess we're in effect saying the same thing ;-)

 

[ZEROVIZ]

I have a 4 week old 2020 Jeep Gladiator...Stock Sport....with 1500 mile, have death wobble after hitting bump at high speeds 65-75mph...just took it in to dealer....THEY CANT FIND ANYTHING WORNG..."NOW WHAT DO I DO"??

 

[futzin']

Maybe find a spot where you can recreate it. Then video it and/or take them with you.

 

[Desert Outlaw]

I have a 4 week old 2020 Jeep Gladiator...Stock Sport....with 1500 mile, have death wobble after hitting bump at high speeds 65-75mph...just took it in to dealer....THEY CANT FIND ANYTHING WORNG..."NOW WHAT DO I DO"??

Are they willing to break down the frontend and torque everything to spec?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Are they willing to break down the frontend and torque everything to spec?

My guess is that they looked, they checked alignment, they checked for bent parts via visual. That's all most do.
It truly needs to be on a level floor when things are torqued in most cases. For certain suspension parts in certain designs, tightening and torquing while on a lift with wheels hanging down is a very bad thing and will get you slapped in my shop. Parts that pivot with rubber bushings and move as the wheels move up and down should only be tightened/torqued when at curb height. I've seen so-called "mechanics" screw that up.
"I replaced xxxx and now the car sits too high in front"
Did you lower it first and then tighten the bolts and torque things?
"No, I did it while on the lift (or on stands)"
Ding-dong - you preloaded those rubber bushings and now they are holding things up.

 

[Desert Outlaw]

My guess is that they looked, they checked alignment, they checked for bent parts via visual. That's all most do.
It truly needs to be on a level floor when things are torqued in most cases. For certain suspension parts in certain designs, tightening and torquing while on a lift with wheels hanging down is a very bad thing and will get you slapped in my shop. Parts that pivot with rubber bushings and move as the wheels move up and down should only be tightened/torqued when at curb height. I've seen so-called "mechanics" screw that up.
"I replaced xxxx and now the car sits too high in front"
Did you lower it first and then tighten the bolts and torque things?
"No, I did it while on the lift (or on stands)"
Ding-dong - you preloaded those rubber bushings and now they are holding things up.

You're going off on a tangent - if the frontend is disassembled and reassembled and set in place with red Loctite, I would feel that the steering and suspension components were more thoroughly examined. Visuals do nothing for a true frontend evaluation. That's just my opinion after repairing my TJ and a few other Jeeps with shimmy and Death Wobble over the years.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You're going off on a tangent - if the frontend is disassembled and reassembled and set in place with red Loctite, I would feel that the steering and suspension components were more thoroughly examined. Visuals do nothing for a true frontend evaluation. That's just my opinion after repairing my TJ and a few other Jeeps with shimmy and Death Wobble over the years.

Exactly - visuals can only show if something is actually "off" enough to see - a bushing gone, a part bent (cracked paint, etc.).
You won't see red Loctite in many cases, actually most cases, unless they are sloppy. You put it on the threads and then screw the parts in place - the Loctite won't necessarily be visible. I've used it for years on things.
My comments on torque where that with some parts you need to actually torque them in the proper position. Having a vehicle up on a lift and checking torque - DEPENDING on parts, isn't always telling, or even thorough.
But I have a feeling all most dealerships are doing is putting a wrench on "yeah, it's tight" or looking.......... not good enough. I've done too many suspension and steering jobs to accept someone spending just 15 minutes looking at something.
If my vehicle had the issue - I'd INSIST that I be there and watching over them.
But in my case, I'd likely check it over myself and find the issue and then take it to them and make them fix it.

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