Sponsored

Max Tow Package Availability? Now a Max Payload thread

OP
OP
PyrPatriot

PyrPatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Threads
193
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,859
Location
Kentucky, USA
Vehicle(s)
JT Sport S Max Tow; Honda Element
Bottom line - my truck is rated the same as a Sport S =
The GVWR of the Overland is the same as the Sport S = 5800 (Rubicon is 6250).
(I have the book/chart showing these numbers.)
Sport S and Overland both rated 6,000 pounds towing.
Sport S and Overland both rated 1100 pounds payload.
In the Jeep specification documents (thread on it somewhere here) the different trims had different "sub models" and each of those had different payload ratings, all below 1600lbs. For what it's worth, my Sport S has a 1550lb payload despite having several options like a hard top, various packages like the Max Tow, etc.
Sponsored

 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,572
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
In the Jeep specification documents (thread on it somewhere here) the different trims had different "sub models" and each of those had different payload ratings, all below 1600lbs. For what it's worth, my Sport S has a 1550lb payload despite having several options like a hard top, various packages like the Max Tow, etc.
Correct - sort of, because you have max tow and that package - SPRING, AXLES and so on is what gives your sport S the higher payload. IT's not about weight of the vehicle entirely. Otherwise a Sport S has the same specs for towing, payload and vehicle weight as an Overland. It's being said that the difference is all about weight. No, it's not, because your Sport S is not 500 pounds lighter than my Overland.
But the chart DOES show the Sport S with manual transmission has a 1600 pound payload as it's listed, no added options.
Your Sport S as it comes with no added options would weigh the same and have the same payload as my Overland as it comes, no ADDED options.
It's the springs, axles, etc. that give your sport S the edge - the suspension and drive-train change. Not that it's less heavy.
If they added the max tow to the Overland it should carry the same payload and same trailer ability as a Sport S - assuming no ADDED options since both start out weighing the same.
The max tow is what gives it the edge - the axles with max tow are very different.
So, if they added max tow to the overland the towing and payload should be within a couple dozen or so pounds of each other.
My truck doesn't really weigh more than your truck does withOUT max tow (if I haven't added 60 pounds of options)
The Rubicon is the heaviest of them all in the basic state - meaning as it comes, no ADDED options. That's why it doesn't have as much payload or towing rating as a Sport S with max tow.
The Overland weighs less - the same as a Sport S.
I would not be surprised if they had considered adding max tow to the overland but the marketing folks nixed it - wrong target group.
 
OP
OP
PyrPatriot

PyrPatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Threads
193
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,859
Location
Kentucky, USA
Vehicle(s)
JT Sport S Max Tow; Honda Element
Correct - sort of, because you have max tow and that package - SPRING, AXLES and so on is what gives your sport S the higher payload. IT's not about weight of the vehicle entirely. Otherwise a Sport S has the same specs for towing, payload and vehicle weight as an Overland. It's being said that the difference is all about weight. No, it's not, because your Sport S is not 500 pounds lighter than my Overland.
But the chart DOES show the Sport S with manual transmission has a 1600 pound payload as it's listed, no added options.
Your Sport S as it comes with no added options would weigh the same and have the same payload as my Overland as it comes, no ADDED options.
It's the springs, axles, etc. that give your sport S the edge - the suspension and drive-train change. Not that it's less heavy.
If they added the max tow to the Overland it should carry the same payload and same trailer ability as a Sport S - assuming no ADDED options since both start out weighing the same.
The max tow is what gives it the edge - the axles with max tow are very different.
So, if they added max tow to the overland the towing and payload should be within a couple dozen or so pounds of each other.
My truck doesn't really weigh more than your truck does withOUT max tow (if I haven't added 60 pounds of options)
The Rubicon is the heaviest of them all in the basic state - meaning as it comes, no ADDED options. That's why it doesn't have as much payload or towing rating as a Sport S with max tow.
The Overland weighs less - the same as a Sport S.
I would not be surprised if they had considered adding max tow to the overland but the marketing folks nixed it - wrong target group.
I don't think it is the Max Tow package. I could be mistaken, but I certainly looked at a few Sport S models without the Max Tow that had close to a 1600lb payload. The Max Tow only affects the tow rating and that is due primarily with the axles. I'll look into this some more
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,572
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
I don't think it is the Max Tow package. I could be mistaken, but I certainly looked at a few Sport S models without the Max Tow that had close to a 1600lb payload. The Max Tow only affects the tow rating and that is due primarily with the axles. I'll look into this some more
Right - I said it's the Sport - maybe I didn't repeat the bit I originally said that its' Sport - without max tow and WITH manual transmission. It's at the top of the chart. So a basic Sport S, no max tow, with manual transmission, has a payload rating of 1600 pounds, no options, of course - add 50 pounds of options then that would go down to 1550, etc. but the vehicle with manual tops the chart - I'm going to guess it's the weight of the automatic since that IS carried by the truck.
I have a booklet that has a chart that shows it.
WITH max tow the payload is different - I'm in my shop now so don't have those Jeep booklets......
 
OP
OP
PyrPatriot

PyrPatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Threads
193
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,859
Location
Kentucky, USA
Vehicle(s)
JT Sport S Max Tow; Honda Element
Right - I said it's the Sport - maybe I didn't repeat the bit I originally said that its' Sport - without max tow and WITH manual transmission. It's at the top of the chart. So a basic Sport S, no max tow, with manual transmission, has a payload rating of 1600 pounds, no options, of course - add 50 pounds of options then that would go down to 1550, etc. but the vehicle with manual tops the chart - I'm going to guess it's the weight of the automatic since that IS carried by the truck.
I have a booklet that has a chart that shows it.
WITH max tow the payload is different - I'm in my shop now so don't have those Jeep booklets......
The only difference between the Sport and Sport S is the Convenience Package 24S or something. My window sticker says Jeep Gladiator Sport, not Sport S.
 

Sponsored

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,572
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
Sport payload with MANUAL is 1200,
Sport S payload with manual is 1600
Sport and Sport S with automatic payload is 1150 according to my chart - showing that it's more than just a single package difference.
Obviously there are spring and other differences.
That's according to the chart I have......
 

Gatorized

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Threads
6
Messages
1,663
Reaction score
1,535
Location
ME/NH
Vehicle(s)
‘06 CRV, ‘14 Mazda3, ‘20 JTR (Gator)
Is there an error on the Overland revs per mile? Doesn't the Overland have a shorter tire than the Rubicon? Must be inverted - kms (Miles)
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,572
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
Overland has a higher gear ratio........ the tire isn't all that short. 33"?
 

giskard

Well-Known Member
First Name
Cameron
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
161
Reaction score
127
Location
Thief River Falls, MN
Vehicle(s)
2018 BMW i3s
Sport payload with MANUAL is 1200,
Sport S payload with manual is 1600
Sport and Sport S with automatic payload is 1150 according to my chart - showing that it's more than just a single package difference.
Obviously there are spring and other differences.
That's according to the chart I have......
Actually, I think it's the tow package that makes the difference. The Sport S without any kind of tow package (max or "regular" tow) is a special configuration that gets the max 1600+ lb payload (6250 lb GVWR like the max tow, but narrower axles). @basicGlad cracked the code a few months ago. He posted his door sticker and it was close to 1700 lbs if I remember correctly. If I could have gotten the higher GVWR with a Sport S manual with regular tow package I'd likely have gone with that configuration.
 

Gatorized

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Threads
6
Messages
1,663
Reaction score
1,535
Location
ME/NH
Vehicle(s)
‘06 CRV, ‘14 Mazda3, ‘20 JTR (Gator)
Overland has a higher gear ratio........ the tire isn't all that short. 33"?
I think the chart is referencing tire revs per mile.
Overlands are about 32". 404 (650)
Rubicon's are about 33" 617 (383)
Sports are about 31.5". 661 (411)
The taller the tire, the fewer the revs per mile.
I was just astonished when I saw how few revs per mile were listed for the Overland - but I think the chart just inverted the Overland numbers and listed revs per km first followed by revs per mile, whereas Sport and Rubicon have revs per mile listed first.
 

Sponsored

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
178
Messages
29,091
Reaction score
34,572
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTO, '23 JLU, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
I think the chart is referencing tire revs per mile.
Overlands are about 32". 404 (650)
Rubicon's are about 33" 617 (383)
Sports are about 31.5". 661 (411)
The taller the tire, the fewer the revs per mile.
I was just astonished when I saw how few revs per mile were listed for the Overland - but I think the chart just inverted the Overland numbers and listed revs per km first followed by revs per mile, whereas Sport and Rubicon have revs per mile listed first.
I mis-read as revs per mile meaning engine revolutions per mile. Gotcha.
 

kelkolb

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kelley
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
400
Reaction score
300
Location
Greensboro, NC
Vehicle(s)
2020 Gladiator Sport S
Occupation
Mechanical Engineer
The basic Sport S with manual transmission is rated 1600. That explains why that person has that sticker, they didn't STRIP it of anything, the ratings are without ADDED options, not with things taken out - the manual transmission has a higher payload.
If he had added options it would have gone down a tad. The rating is for a vehicle "as equipped" from the factory. He bought it as it sat, no options, not that anything was removed. The chart does show a payload of 1600 for Sport with manual transmission.

The overland and Sport S weigh the same, the Rubicon is heavier than either.

So what you suggest about having max tow on the overland makes no sense at all.
Are you kidding? Silly to add max tow - when the Sport S and Overland WEIGH THE SAME and have the same PAYLOAD out of the gate??
An Overland has a payload of 1100 and so does a Sport S.
The Overland GVWR is identical to a Sport S - but your logic says the Overland is a luxury model so weighs more.

My payload is 1031 and that's 69 pounds under 1100 - likely due to the bed liner and tonneau cover, heavier Alpine speakers, leather seats, 69 is not too far under the stock 1100 they advertise. The options don't add much for weight.
Add those same options to a Sport S and you'd have the same results.
That's because the Sport S has the same payload and the same GVWR as the Overland.
But you say the Overland is luxury so much heavier...........how can that be? That's because it's not. Only ADDED options change the payload rating.

So they took a Sport S with 1100 pounds payload and identical GVWR and added max tow and increased the numbers.
Why not do the same for Overland?
They weigh the same, they have the SAME basic payload, so why not.
It's ONLY max tow that gives sport the edge. I'ts not because the Overland is heavier. It's because it's a different target.

It takes more than just the weight to determine the payload (otherwise the Rubicon would be the worst of any of them).
I've seen that proven over the decades when people take a pickup and toss in the weight that a comparable model is supposed to be able to haul - and find their bearings, tires and springs and other parts go to heck. That's because they don't have the better axles and springs like their buddy has - not because their truck is a luxury truck.
With Rubicon and Sport S with MAX TOW - you are buying other parts that support the weight - not a lighter vehicle. Because they are NOT lighter than mine!
I've repaired enough busted trucks over the years - when people thought gee, they have a xxx F150 and I have a xxx F150, same engine, same transmission. Well the one was rated higher due to springs and axles. My own F250 could haul a whole lot more than most others because it had extra heavy-duty axles under it and beefier springs. Otherwise my truck was loaded for a 95 - it had literally every option.

Bottom line - my truck is rated the same as a Sport S =
The GVWR of the Overland is the same as the Sport S = 5800 (Rubicon is 6250).
(I have the book/chart showing these numbers.)
Sport S and Overland both rated 6,000 pounds towing.
Sport S and Overland both rated 1100 pounds payload.

But the overland is luxury and so much heavier - so it would be silly to add max tow?
Why? It's marketing, that's why. Psychology, Madison Avenue, target audience.

You can't compare the various models and say it's all about weight.
FCA says otherwise.

I don't think the Overland with max tow is impossible. The wider axles and 4.10's would easily allow it to tow just about as much as the Sport S Max Tow. My suspicion is that in doing their market analysis, Jeep determined that the percentage of Overland buyers that would want max towing capacity was not high enough for them to justify them making it an option. In this market with one truck, surely they had to keep options to what the majority would buy and clearly it wasn't in the cards for the Overland. I think of the Overland like I think of the Sahara. Most people who buy the Sahara don't off road them, and most Overland buyers likely won't tow or off road them.
 

futzin'

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kevin
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Threads
47
Messages
1,499
Reaction score
1,703
Location
Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
'20 JTR, '15 Durango Citadel, '06 Suburban 2500 8L
They can still tow, just not quite as much!
 

Tim

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Threads
14
Messages
335
Reaction score
381
Location
New Jersey
Vehicle(s)
2020 JTR
I don't think the Overland with max tow is impossible. The wider axles and 4.10's would easily allow it to tow just about as much as the Sport S Max Tow. My suspicion is that in doing their market analysis, Jeep determined that the percentage of Overland buyers that would want max towing capacity was not high enough for them to justify them making it an option. In this market with one truck, surely they had to keep options to what the majority would buy and clearly it wasn't in the cards for the Overland. I think of the Overland like I think of the Sahara. Most people who buy the Sahara don't off road them, and most Overland buyers likely won't tow or off road them.
I actually think FCA set up the options matrix to push people to higher trim levels. I would have bought a Sport S Max Tow if I could get LEDs and the 8.4" radio. That bumped me up to an Overland but it's not available with the wide track Dana 44s with 4.10s, which I wanted. Guess what? That put me in a Rubicon which is more profit for FCA.

Had the Overland been available with a Max Tow option I would have been all over it.
 

JCJeep1

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
257
Reaction score
242
Location
New Jersey Shore
Vehicle(s)
1997 TJ 37" MT Long Arm 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 2020 StingGrey Gladiator Sport S Tow
Vehicle Showcase
1
I actually think FCA set up the options matrix to push people to higher trim levels. I would have bought a Sport S Max Tow if I could get LEDs and the 8.4" radio. That bumped me up to an Overland but it's not available with the wide track Dana 44s with 4.10s, which I wanted. Guess what? That put me in a Rubicon which is more profit for FCA.

Had the Overland been available with a Max Tow option I would have been all over it.
That is the game of sales - it becomes difficult to limit your wants versus needs - I knew what I wanted and I know the workarounds to what I need to add - Love the gladiator
Sponsored

 
 



Top