Prospective buyers beware

[mr_bots]

Hey, where's the sensors for these things?

The cabin temperature sensor is behind the grill on the dash to the right of the steering wheel by the driver's knee.

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[ShadowsPapa]

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The cabin temperature sensor is behind the grill on the dash to the right of the steering wheel by the driver's knee.

That explains a bit - I tend to use the dash outlets, aimed to the sides, and warm air rises, so the sensor will not warm up as cold air sinks.
My wife uses "feet heat" and it always does a better job for her. The warm air comes from below and rises up by the sensor.
There, you just figured out why when she handles the HVAC it seems to be more even and nicer in there.

 

[sad85XD]

At what point do I start killing kittens?

I mean if you haven't started already, you're way behind the quota.

 

[danielspivey]

Once again, there is no full "Manual Mode" the temperature is always operating automatically. Looking at your garage, go try it out on the listed Civic or CR-V. My 18 CR-V behaves the same as the Jeep. Set it to 72 in "Manual Mode" and it's cold in the cabin it'll run warm until it gets close to 72 then cools it off as it gets close to ~72, it just won't touch fan speed or mode. It's dumb and they should just drop the temperature numbers and go to a slider when it's not in auto since it's a programmable LCD screen but it seems to be the industry standard.

Not true per Jeep and my local service department. Please provide any evidence to support your claims that manual is something other than manual. Manual is not really a debatable term.

Industry standard... disagree. Our 2018 civic and CRV, 2016 4runner, 2014 CRV, 2013 tundra... none act in the manner the gladiator does in regards to HVAC.

 

[danielspivey]

At what point do I start killing kittens?

I had a strong suspicion you were a kitten killer... careful PETA might be monitoring this forum!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I had a strong suspicion you were a kitten killer... careful PETA might be monitoring this forum!

Good thing my youngest son is in Asia somewhere.............

 

[Aero_JT]

I'm no expert in HVAC or ACC, but I thought I'd share my 2 cents from the little I know (warning: looooooooong read). Just wanted to mention up front that I have NOT read through the other JT HVAC issue thread and I am NOT dismissing anyone having issues with their JT. I am just glad that the ACC on my JT is behaving pretty much as I expected.

That said, I'd like to share what I expect based on the first ACC system I encountered, which seem to line up with my ACC experience throughout many cars in the years that follow. From almost 25 years ago, in a 1995 SAAB 9000 owner's manual, a few things I read about its ACC system which I'm quoting below (from the section "Automatic climate control (ACC) system", pages 21 to 26). I have added my personal expectation of each feature, on any ACC units (including the JT).

1. "Note that the system will automatically select the settings required to attain the desired temperature as quickly as possible. The car will therefore not heat up or cool down more quickly if you select a higher or lower temperature than the desired."
- My expectation is that as long as there is a temperature variance, the ACC could be blowing at maximum A/C or Heat. To me this means air blowing out of the vents will NOT be at the temperature set on the ACC. Though with newer designs I believe this could be programmed in a less intrusive manner if the variance is small.

2. "The temperature shown on the display is not the actual temperature inside the cabin: the system takes into account such factors as air flow, humidity, direct sun, etc. inside the car and then controls the climate to correspond to the perceived comfort expected at the selected temperature."
- My expectation is that once the "desired temperature" is achieved, the cabin temperature (maintained by the ACC) might not equal to the temperature set on the ACC control panel. I expect it to "feel similar" to when I set the thermostat at home. Now personally, I like the "feeling" of 22C/72F. Depending on the season, I tend to set slightly lower (e.g. 20C/68F) in the winter, mainly because I'd likely have my winter jacket on. In the contrary, I tend to set it slightly higher (e.g. 24C/75F) in the summer for similar reasons.

3. "There are also two other settings: HI (maximum heat and maximum fan speed) and LO (maximum cooling and maximum fan speed)."
- My expectation is that these 2 settings are like manual overrides on both ends, thus there are no particular cabin temperatures it tries to achieve.

4. "Although the heating function for the rear window and door mirrors, and the rear-door fans are controlled automatically by the system, it is possible to override the system and switch these functions on or off by means of the appropriate button on the control panel, without affecting the comfort inside the car.
To cancel a function selected manually, press the button again or press AUTO. Once a function has been selected manually, it will remain in the selected mode, but all other functions will remain in the automatic mode. Thus, control of the temperature will always be automatic. LED indicators adjacent to the function buttons indicate which functions are actuated."
- Contrary to a fully "Manual Climate Control System", my expectation on an ACC equipped vehicle, when it's not in "Auto" mode, is to treat it as merely "manual override" on certain functions/features. For example, overriding air distribution to the floor vents, increasing the fan speed, etc. As quoted above, other than functions selected manually (read: overridden), "all other functions will remain in the automatic mode" and "control of the temperature will always be automatic". This seems to be where an ACC is different from an fully manual system, in which most of the vehicles I came across have 3 rotary knobs: i. air distribution mode; ii. fan speed; iii. air flow temperature. For air flow temperature in particular, I believe (which could be wrong) it controls a manual blend door to give a cold/hot air mix. This is independent of output air *temperature* as there is no "feedback" to the system other than the driver/user. Now in an ACC system, again I believe (which could be wrong) the blend doors are positioned by actuators, which are controlled electronically to output a desired air flow mixture. Sensors and feedbacks come into play along with the ACC programming.
- Now based on the above, here's my few shots in the dark regarding possible ACC issues when in "auto" or "override" mode.
i. If all actuators, sensors, and feedbacks are working properly, but the ACC unit is not programmed properly, it might not trigger proper blend door positioning. Thus, blowing overly hot or cold air instead of an appropriate mix.
ii. Similar to the above, if the ACC unit is programmed, in "override" mode, to only do 100% cold or hot air in the blend door, this could be another reason/issue.
iii. In addition, any combination of faulty parts (air temperature sensors, air flow sensors, blend door positioning feedback, etc.) or programming (ACC programming in certain modes, with particular override, etc.) could have led to HVAC issues JT owners have experienced.

5. "[AUTO] When this function is actuated, temperature, air distribution, fan speed, heating of the rear window and door mirrors, and air recirculation are controlled automatically."
- My expectation as what are being controlled by the ACC.

6. "[ECON] When this function is actuated, the AC unit will not operate. Temperature, air distribution, fan speed and rear-window and door-mirror heating will still be controlled automatically."
- My expectation, inline with what I mentioned above, is that the AC unit (also apply to other units/functions) when overridden, will not affect the other features. Functions that were not "overridden" will remain under automatic control. That said, because there is/are feature(s) being overridden, that light on the "Auto" button will NOT be illuminated.

Before any conclusive findings, related to issues with the JT ACC, I am glad that I have not experienced anything I have read so far. Though I do not rule out the possibility that my JT could have the same issues. Since I leave the ACC on "Auto" mode most of the time, and usually only do front defroster override (and fan speed override occasionally), I might just have not triggered the "perfect storm" on the ACC chaos.

I do hope that it gets identified and resolved soon, either for particular batches of JTs, or possibly for all JTs where the issues just "haven't been discovered" with individual's usage yet.

My apologies for the long read and a 1/4 century old reference. I have been very happy with my JT so just hoping to share what little I know, and hopefully help anyone to resolve / workaround the ACC issues so we could focus on enjoying the JT and what it could bring.

Cheers!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not true per Jeep and my local service department. Please provide any evidence to support your claims that manual is something other than manual. Manual is not really a debatable term.

Industry standard... disagree. Our 2018 civic and CRV, 2016 4runner, 2014 CRV, 2013 tundra... none act in the manner the gladiator does in regards to HVAC.

I've been confused in this thread as to who thinks these should operate how ............. and what about manual isn't manual?
Almost any of them these days you set a temp, the rest is manual. If you want a slider where you have to control the air temp at all times, then go back to the 1980s. But for the most part, my JT matches my wife's Grand Cherokee, the Chevy I had, my older Jeep.

Manual means:
*you choose AC if it needs to cool down inside,
*or heat if it needs to warm up inside,
*you choose fan speed - set it and it stays there even if the temp is already reached - my wife cranks the fan with a cold engine and blows cold air on us then complains about it being cold,
*you set the temp and it goes there. That's it, the rest is manual - YOU choose or set.
It's like the thermostat on the wall of a house build in the 1970s or earlier. You set the temp -the rest is up to you.
I don't know what isn't manual about that.
That's exactly how my 2011 Chevy worked. I chose the temp I wanted, everything else I had to do - AC or heat, fan speed, where I wanted the air to come out.

Auto handles:
*the fan speed -
slow when the coolant is cold to keep from blowing cold air on you,
ramps up as the engine warms when in heat mode,
*whether - it's in AC because it's hotter than chosen temp,
*or heat mode because it's colder inside than chosen temp.
*you set the temp because it's not yet a mind-reader.

Seems to me those are the basics.
I still have to run the heater on full on my SX4 until it gets warm inside and then set the slider back. I still have to leave the fan off or on low until the engine warms up and then speed the fan up to warm it up inside.

Older vehicles handled heat in multiple ways -
SOME use a door - a mid-70s car with heat and no AC often ran the coolant through the heater core at all times and used a door to control the temp and you set the fan speed to help control the temp inside.
IF that same make and model had AC, they shut the coolant flow off via a vacuum controlled heater valve that shut coolant off when in AC mode. Air flowed over the heater core and evaporator at the same time so they had to shut coolant off when it had AC.
Earlier ones had a cable that operated the heater valve - the cables got sticky, the clamps let loose, things would bind and you'd move the lever but the heater valve didn't close, or didn't open. They went to a PVC type sleeve to help but it wasn't perfect -the sleeve would break, valves still got gunked up and stuck.
So they went vacuum - them diaphragms would rupture, control valves would go bad, the list went on and on.
I guess if you don't like how it operates, get a 1960s heater valve, go to the performance section of the parts store and buy a choke cable and rig it so you can control the coolant flow through the heater core. I know a guy that did that with his Ford F250 because he didn't want to pay $1200 plus labor to have the electric control for the heater door replaced!

 

[Adawg1203]

Exactly the purpose and title of this thread. Prospective owners


click bait, no. Did you click and realize that you now have the problem? Now before you bought your gladiator, would you be glad you were informed of HVAC problems ?

People defending a malfunctioning HVAC system is absolutely hilarious.

People can defend what they want, how they want. OK you have strong beliefs regarding the HVAC systems operability. Its VERY important to you. Others may feel that it's not a big issue. That doesn't mean they settle for lesser quality or buy into "Its A JEEP thing".

Personally, I could care less of the issue. No I knew nothing about it when I purchased. That's the breaks of ordering an LE. Bought site unseen. Had I known about it prior to purchase, i would have still bought the vehicle. Full disclosure none of my vehicles come out of auto mode unless it's for defrost mode.

How passive or passionately someone defends their position doesn't make them laughable, wrong, or anything different than the person who has an opposite opinion.

We all have different thresholds on things we can live with or without in life. HVAC operability isnt going to hurt or kill anyone and in the grand scheme of things how huge of an issue is it really. Especially if there's a workaround of pushing the auto button. Heck I've got plenty of things in my shed, and garage that aren't quite working right but I find solutions. Could I bring back to Lowes or Home Depot where I bought them from? Sure but then I cant tinker as much.

No vehicle is perfect. All I know is my Gladiator HVAC system works and I have zero issues with it. I'm not going to look for any problems either.

Your point on the HVAC issue is well taken. However the same respect you and others would like when stating your perspective, should also be displayed when commenting back at others sharing their opposing view.

I've found this thread pretty entertaining but good information has been cited on both sides as well. Carry on.

 

[saintpauljeff]

Manual means:
*you choose AC if it needs to cool down inside,
*or heat if it needs to warm up inside,
*you choose fan speed - set it and it stays there even if the temp is already reached - my wife cranks the fan with a cold engine and blows cold air on us then complains about it being cold,
*you set the temp and it goes there. That's it, the rest is manual - YOU choose or set.
It's like the thermostat on the wall of a house build in the 1970s or earlier. You set the temp -the rest is up to you.
I don't know what isn't manual about that.
That's exactly how my 2011 Chevy worked. I chose the temp I wanted, everything else I had to do - AC or heat, fan speed, where I wanted the air to come out.

been resistant to post in this thread because I didn't quite understand the issue people were complaining about, but it looks like manual is the setting i've been using (didn't even know there was an "auto" setting) and its been working fine. Only using heat because I live in Minnesota, I've set the fan to 5 and the temp to 74... voila, the cab warms up and seems to feel like that is the temp its at. Have had no problems with this.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

been resistant to post in this thread because I didn't quite understand the issue people were complaining about, but it looks like manual is the setting i've been using (didn't even know there was an "auto" setting) and its been working fine. Only using heat because I live in Minnesota, I've set the fan to 5 and the temp to 74... voila, the cab warms up and seems to feel like that is the temp its at. Have had no problems with this.

LOL - you guys have probably been using the heat for at least 3 months up there.

I usually have a coat or jacket on when I'm driving - I mean, I have to walk 225 feet outside to even get TO it. Hassle taking it off then putting back on when I get to destination, etc. so I leave it on. So I don't crank the temp up above 70 - and it's often less than that (until my wife gets in and pushes it to 72 - funny thing - in the house this winter she sets it to 67 and wears SHORTS - women...........)
Anyway, since I typically have a coat on in the winter, as long as it gets comfortable, it might be 2 or 4 degrees off - as long as it feels good, I'm good with it.
I'll keep closer tabs - because like I said earlier after it's run for quite a while and the cab is warmed up, the air coming out does feel cooler, but maybe that's the 68 degrees I expect? Dunno, but so far, mine is either fine or it has a quirk.
I'm not used to riding in a Mercedes so this is luxury to me.
Only my Chevy HVAC was perfect. But it had thick steel roof and walls, very well insulated, no seams to leak or blow cold air, and the glass was further away so you didn't feel the heat loss through the glass. That's like comparing a building with 6" walls, fully insulated with Tyvek wrap to a 1950's house with 2x4 stud walls, blown-in insulation, no vapor barrier.

 

[Hepps]

I believe he's referring to some owners reporting that when using the AC and not setting it to auto, if you change from low to a specific temperature it blows hot. It has been stated that if you turn on the auto temperature control the issue goes away. I cannot confirm the issue is or isn't present on my rig as if I have the climate control on I leave it on auto.

I've had this issue since I bought my Rubicon in July. It's very inconsistent how it manages temp. Not sure of the reasons but I find myself adjusting the HVAC quite a bit. It's a nuisance but a manageable one.

 

[danielspivey]

I've been confused in this thread as to who thinks these should operate how ............. and what about manual isn't manual?
Almost any of them these days you set a temp, the rest is manual. If you want a slider where you have to control the air temp at all times, then go back to the 1980s. But for the most part, my JT matches my wife's Grand Cherokee, the Chevy I had, my older Jeep.

Manual means:
*you choose AC if it needs to cool down inside,
*or heat if it needs to warm up inside,
*you choose fan speed - set it and it stays there even if the temp is already reached - my wife cranks the fan with a cold engine and blows cold air on us then complains about it being cold,
*you set the temp and it goes there. That's it, the rest is manual - YOU choose or set.
It's like the thermostat on the wall of a house build in the 1970s or earlier. You set the temp -the rest is up to you.
I don't know what isn't manual about that.
That's exactly how my 2011 Chevy worked. I chose the temp I wanted, everything else I had to do - AC or heat, fan speed, where I wanted the air to come out.

Auto handles:
*the fan speed -
slow when the coolant is cold to keep from blowing cold air on you,
ramps up as the engine warms when in heat mode,
*whether - it's in AC because it's hotter than chosen temp,
*or heat mode because it's colder inside than chosen temp.
*you set the temp because it's not yet a mind-reader.

Seems to me those are the basics.
I still have to run the heater on full on my SX4 until it gets warm inside and then set the slider back. I still have to leave the fan off or on low until the engine warms up and then speed the fan up to warm it up inside.

Older vehicles handled heat in multiple ways -
SOME use a door - a mid-70s car with heat and no AC often ran the coolant through the heater core at all times and used a door to control the temp and you set the fan speed to help control the temp inside.
IF that same make and model had AC, they shut the coolant flow off via a vacuum controlled heater valve that shut coolant off when in AC mode. Air flowed over the heater core and evaporator at the same time so they had to shut coolant off when it had AC.
Earlier ones had a cable that operated the heater valve - the cables got sticky, the clamps let loose, things would bind and you'd move the lever but the heater valve didn't close, or didn't open. They went to a PVC type sleeve to help but it wasn't perfect -the sleeve would break, valves still got gunked up and stuck.
So they went vacuum - them diaphragms would rupture, control valves would go bad, the list went on and on.
I guess if you don't like how it operates, get a 1960s heater valve, go to the performance section of the parts store and buy a choke cable and rig it so you can control the coolant flow through the heater core. I know a guy that did that with his Ford F250 because he didn't want to pay $1200 plus labor to have the electric control for the heater door replaced!

What your describing in your house is the same as the auto mode in our car. Most all modern homes are auto.

I ran this my my home HVAC guy who makes a living being a repair guy for Johnson controls. He sent me a good article that explains it well... he said the same concept for our Jeeps:

https://www.hunker.com/12591346/difference-between-automatic-air-conditioning-vs-manual

in manual mode the temp shouldn’t just change or cut off when the desired temp is obtained, that’s what happens in auto mode. In manual mode, you would need to MANUALLY cut it off if it gets too hot. All controls should perform as set in manual mode and should NOT vary. If you set to hi heat and fan speed of 7, it should stay on hi heat and fan speed of 7 until you MANUALLY cut it off.

btw, he got a pretty good laugh over this forum. He said we could maybe group Skype sometime to answer questions.

 

[danielspivey]

What your describing in your house is the same as the auto mode in our car. Most all modern homes are auto.

I ran this my my home HVAC guy who makes a living being a repair guy for Johnson controls. He sent me a good article that explains it well... he said the same concept for our Jeeps:

https://www.hunker.com/12591346/difference-between-automatic-air-conditioning-vs-manual

in manual mode the temp shouldn’t just change or cut off when the desired temp is obtained, that’s what happens in auto mode. In manual mode, you would need to MANUALLY cut it off if it gets too hot. All controls should perform as set in manual mode and should NOT vary. If you set to hi heat and fan speed of 7, it should stay on hi heat and fan speed of 7 until you MANUALLY cut it off.

btw, he got a pretty good laugh over this forum. He said we could maybe group Skype sometime to answer questions.

Also I’ve been riding around all day in my wife’s 2018 CRV. Auto works great, adjusts all controls as needed to get to set temp. In manual mode (auto off) it acts just like the article describes, all controls stay exactly where they are set. If you set to 64 or 85 it blows that temp constantly and doesn’t change. We have been comfortable all day with virtually no manipulation of the controls!

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