Prospective buyers beware

[ShadowsPapa]

Sad that the response is so vaque- the dealers have an “instruction manual” (for lack of a better term) that I looked through on the sales floor that explains how all the systems work so they can talk intelligently to the customer. Why @JeepCares can’t quote from this reference is beyond me. Perhaps all dealers don’t use this manual or the service department doesn’t have a copy, which would explain the poor responses provided when taking these issues to the dealer.

My observations with manual (fan set to low, temp set to 72):
With an oven thermometer (similar to this - https://techinstrument.com/products...MI8c-ottrr5gIViJ6zCh2VVQHkEAQYESABEgLVUPD_BwE) placed in the drivers right hand dash vent, i observed temp at the vent ramp up to 185-190 degree heat in parallel with engine warming up as reflected on the engine temp gauge on the dash display. When the engine temp gauge reached operating temp, the dash vent temp maxed out .
I didn’t have a thermometer to check cabin temp, but 20 minutes into my trip when cabin temp felt comfortable, I noticed that the vent temp had dropped to 85-90 degrees. Remarkably close to body temp... the air felt cooler than I expected at 90 degrees, but I suspect that is due to the low humidity this time of year.

And had you monitored the temperature in the cabin, say, around you, the console area, whatever, I would bet that when it got to 72 degrees the temp of the air coming out of the vents would have been around 72.
Makes total sense. Manual does not mean you get 72 degree air out the vents, it means it maxes out the air temp until the cabin reaches 72 then throttles back.
If manual meant 72 out the vent, it would never reach 72 in the cabin.
Based on my HVAC experiences, this is how it should operate. You aren't setting the vent air temp, you are setting the cabin temp in manual mode.
My bet is yours is operating as it should.
Again, manual mode is NOT setting the temp of the air blasting out the vents - you are STILL setting the cabin temperature in manual mode.
Anyone want to place bets?

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[danielspivey]

Referring to a post (can't find it now) where someone asked a Jeep tech about it. But yes, I agree with you.

And had you monitored the temperature in the cabin, say, around you, the console area, whatever, I would bet that when it got to 72 degrees the temp of the air coming out of the vents would have been around 72.
Makes total sense. Manual does not mean you get 72 degree air out the vents, it means it maxes out the air temp until the cabin reaches 72 then throttles back.
If manual meant 72 out the vent, it would never reach 72 in the cabin.
Based on my HVAC experiences, this is how it should operate. You aren't setting the vent air temp, you are setting the cabin temp in manual mode.
My bet is yours is operating as it should.
Again, manual mode is NOT setting the temp of the air blasting out the vents - you are STILL setting the cabin temperature in manual mode.
Anyone want to place bets?

What you are describing is what the owners manual says auto mode should do. See my post of the owners manual where it describes the auto function. Sounds like your manual mode is working like the auto should.

There’s a lot of people on here assuming they know what manual is supposed to do, please provide some documentation or reference point from Jeep if you disagree, otherwise it’s not very helpful.

Just to be clear, I respect everyone’s opinions, but they are just opinions unless you have something to support it.

Thing only thing I have definitive are as follows:
1) the owners manuals says “manual operation override: this system offers a full compliment of manual override features. The AUTO symbol in the front ATC display will be turned off when the system is being used in manual mode”.
2) Jeepcares said to refer to my Local service department about specifics of manual mode, they didn’t have details of how manual mode operates.
3) I talked to my local service department and they said in Manual mode you should be able to choose any combo of settings (temp, blower speed or air location) and they should stay where they are set. Only in auto mode should the temperature change.

Does anyone have anything else to add other than speculation? Like I said I respect the opinions, and that other cars to things differently, but anything concrete?

 

[futzin']

This would make sense in auto, auto is about maintaining a temperature, but not in manual mode.

At start up, a system should never be overly hot in manual mode, it should only be overly cool because the heating system hasn’t had a chance to warm up. Blowing above 72 heat, when set to 72 should never happen in manual mode.

Per the manual, that’s what should happen in auto. Set the temp to the desired cabin temp, the system then adjusts the temp, blower speed and air output location to maintain that set temperature.

[/QUOTE]

I totally agree here, but I've begun to think that Jeep has designed the manual mode to behave much like the auto mode, why I can't imagine. However, I hope it's malfunctioning and correctable.

 

[Gatorized]

I totally agree here, but I've begun to think that Jeep has designed the manual mode to behave much like the auto mode, why I can't imagine. However, I hope it's malfunctioning and correctable.[/QUOTE]
Disagree - manual allows you to change all variables - fan, temp, location. But the key is it is working to get to the temp you select.
Auto allows you only to change the temp and all other items are grayed out. If you attempt to change them it reverts to manual. Again the key is to get to the temp you select but auto will throttle back the fan when it reaches that temp.
My observations on auto:
Set temp to 74, fan engaged as engine approached operating temp the fan increased and the cabin temp went up. No air blowing from dash vents, only from the floor. Climate display showed locations and fan grayed out.

 

[danielspivey]

I totally agree here, but I've begun to think that Jeep has designed the manual mode to behave much like the auto mode, why I can't imagine. However, I hope it's malfunctioning and correctable.

Disagree - manual allows you to change all variables - fan, temp, location. But the key is it is working to get to the temp you select.
Auto allows you only to change the temp and all other items are grayed out. If you attempt to change them it reverts to manual. Again the key is to get to the temp you select but auto will throttle back the fan when it reaches that temp.
My observations on auto:
Set temp to 74, fan engaged as engine approached operating temp the fan increased and the cabin temp went up. No air blowing from dash vents, only from the floor. Climate display showed locations and fan grayed out.

If “manual” is actually “auto” then wouldn’t it defeat the purpose to manually change any variable just to have the other variables change?

So if I was in manual mode and set it to 80, I have the position set to upper blowers, I then change the fan to “7”, then it changes the temp or position, then the temp rises, so I change the blower speed, so then the temp drops, so then I change the position, and the blower changes speed, so then I change the blower speed and the location changes, so then I change the location and the temp changes?

Either this is a complete design flow or either these are faulty systems. Either way needs to be fixed!

This doesn’t make sense! It’s a compete game of see-saw is that what you are saying? So they designed it to be useless? Please provide me some literature or reference to show it’s supposed to work that what other than the “this is how mine works” and “I think it’s supposed to work this ways”.

 

[Gatorized]

If “manual” is actually “auto” then wouldn’t it defeat the purpose to manually change any variable just to have the other variables change?

So if I was in manual mode and set it to 80, I have the position set to upper blowers, I then change the fan to “7”, then it changes the temp or position, then the temp rises, so I change the blower speed, so then the temp drops, so then I change the position, and the blower changes speed, so then I change the blower speed and the location changes, so then I change the location and the temp changes?

Either this is a complete design flow or either these are faulty systems. Either way needs to be fixed!

This doesn’t make sense! It’s a compete game of see-saw is that what you are saying? So they designed it to be useless? Please provide me some literature or reference to show it’s supposed to work that what other than the “this is how mine works” and “I think it’s supposed to work this ways”.

You just need to get your own thermometers and do your own data gathering and stop speculating until you can explain to yourself exactly what it is doing in your JT.

 

[Seansmd]

You just need to get your own thermometers and do your own data gathering and stop speculating until you can explain to yourself exactly what it is doing in your JT.

^^^^THIS I can't follow what you are trying to say for pages, my Jeep operates in manual exactly like all of my vehicles act in manual. It operate in auto the same as my other vehicles have operated in auto.

Your might be broke, but the all are not.

EDIT::::
Sorry @Gatorized this wasn't at you but the OP and the folks who are saying there is a design flaw. My apologies

 

[Renegade]

^^^^THIS I can't follow what you are trying to say for pages, my Jeep operates in manual exactly like all of my vehicles act in manual. It operate in auto the same as my other vehicles have operated in auto.

Your might be broke, but the all are not.

I’m with you 100% here...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

^^^^THIS I can't follow what you are trying to say for pages, my Jeep operates in manual exactly like all of my vehicles act in manual. It operate in auto the same as my other vehicles have operated in auto.

Your might be broke, but the all are not.

Gatorized isn't the one with the HVAC issues - his is fine.

Gatorized's hvac is working fine, like mine is - manual and auto mode.
Works as my other vehicles exactly. Gatorized (and me for a while) was just trying to sort it all out - but I've given up because only one person could actually do a step by step on how to duplicate the issue they saw - it sort of went down from there. The OP gave a good single post on exactly the steps needed to duplicate what they saw.
Otherwise, Gatorized's vehicle, mine, all working fine. Same as our GC, same as my Chevy did. Normal.

 

[Seansmd]

You just need to get your own thermometers and do your own data gathering and stop speculating until you can explain to yourself exactly what it is doing in your JT.

Gatorized isn't the one with the HVAC issues - his is fine.

Gatorized's hvac is working fine, like mine is - manual and auto mode.
Works as my other vehicles exactly. Gatorized (and me for a while) was just trying to sort it all out - but I've given up because only one person could actually do a step by step on how to duplicate the issue they saw - it sort of went down from there. The OP gave a good single post on exactly the steps needed to duplicate what they saw.
Otherwise, Gatorized's vehicle, mine, all working fine. Same as our GC, same as my Chevy did. Normal.

Thanks for catching that @ShadowsPapa , I was on a roll I edited above.....

 

[Aero_JT]

If “manual” is actually “auto” then wouldn’t it defeat the purpose to manually change any variable just to have the other variables change?

So if I was in manual mode and set it to 80, I have the position set to upper blowers, I then change the fan to “7”, then it changes the temp or position, then the temp rises, so I change the blower speed, so then the temp drops, so then I change the position, and the blower changes speed, so then I change the blower speed and the location changes, so then I change the location and the temp changes?

Either this is a complete design flow or either these are faulty systems. Either way needs to be fixed!

This doesn’t make sense! It’s a compete game of see-saw is that what you are saying? So they designed it to be useless? Please provide me some literature or reference to show it’s supposed to work that what other than the “this is how mine works” and “I think it’s supposed to work this ways”.

From what I've read on this thread and the manual "Climate Controls" section, I believe there is a distinction between:

1. Manual Climate Control, and
2. Automatic Climate Control under "Manual Mode" (Refer to description in manual about the "Auto" button: "Toggling this button causes the system to switch between manual mode and automatic modes.")

For the most part, in both #1 and #2 above, using Manual Climate Control terms, "Blower Control" (fan speed) and "Mode Control" (air flow distribution) should work similar (if not the same) in both Manual and Automatic *Climate Control* (note that I'm not using the terms Manual Mode or Auto Mode).

It's the "Temperature Control" (again in Manual Climate Control terms) that seems to be causing some gaps in expectations.

From my understanding, with Manual Climate Control, the temperature control is not based on an actual temperature (#C/F), but rather a general "feel" of coldn-ess or hot-ness. The driver/user is the one regulating the "perceived temperature".

As for Automatic Climate Control (in both full-auto or manual modes), the user actually inputs a desired temperature and let the system attain that "perceived temperature", similar to Manual Climate Control, only that instead of user regulating the dial knob position, the ACC unit will be doing it "automatically".

In my honest opinion, I think when we talk about "Manual Mode" in Automatic Climate Control, it might be better to view it as sort of a "manual override". So that other than particular settings that have been overridden, all other parameters remains "automatic".

As per v3 of the manual in the same section, p.83, it says regarding "Manual Operation Override" of the "Automatic Temperature Control" (I believe it is the part of ACC that handles the "Temperature Control" knob functionality in Manual Climate Control):

"This system offers a full complement of manual override features. The AUTO symbol in the front ATC display will be turned off when the system is being used in the manual mode."

Based on the above from the manual, I believe the "Manual Mode" in the Automatic Climate Control should be viewed differently than a full "Manaul Climate Control".

Also, in the same section, it was also mentioned:

"It is not necessary to move the temperature settings for cold or hot vehicles. The system automatically adjusts the temperature, mode, and blower speed to provide comfort as quickly as possible."

The leads me to believe that as the ACC tries to attain the desired temperature "as quickly as possible", air temperature coming out from the vents would be colder/hotter than the "set" temperatures on the panel, when it's trying to cool down / heat up the cabin respectively.

From personal experience, based on my assumptions above, my JT HVAC is behaving exactly as I expected. Which are also in line with ACC behavior of a number of vehicles and brands (Saab, Acura, Kia, GMC, to name a few) which I have driven over the years.

I'm not trying to dismiss any JT owners who have been experiencing HVAC issues, just merely trying to help figure out any causes or workarounds.

Cheers!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks for catching that @ShadowsPapa , I was on a roll I edited above.....

And I thought I was the only one who got on a roll going so fast I missed an entire day.............

 

[danielspivey]

And I thought I was the only one who got on a roll going so fast I missed an entire day.............

Man, I thought something happened to you!

This thread on the JL site is like deja Vu:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ol-hot-or-cold-but-no-in-between.21606/page-2

 

[Hawkeyes3312]

These Gladiators have a known HVAC system problem that is still ongoing. Visit the thread within this forum. Looking back, I would not have purchased this gladiator if desired cabin temperature cannot be achieved.

Ron's work week.....

 

[Hawkeyes3312]

Ron's work week.....

Found his cohort on this forum too....beware all!

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