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Delete push button start, go back to keyed ignition? The rfid brick has to go...

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Slapping_Rabbits

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I want to lock my doors with the fob, unlock my doors with the fob, start the car with a key that sticks all my keys into the dash, and stop the car with my key which is attached to all my other keys and that way they always go where the jeep goes when it's running and with the driver when it's not. This push button business and rfid is not for me, so how do i eliminate it?

There's room for keyed ignition switch to break the fuel injector pump wire so that's my initial thought and leave the damn brick in the center console and go key only if i have to, ess disabled via hood pin move method was done instantly, no room for that in my life either. I didn't buy a plain jane sport manual to be hamstrung with all this technological bullshizzo...this is my number one gripe FCA, you listening? There's a whole movement of us boomer babies that have no interest in more tech more wizardry, we have plenty in our lives, we are craving simplicity and mechanical where possible now, so keep the mechanical simple model exactly that please! Push button start and a five pound transmitter in your front pocket...wtf, maybe impress the ladies, but not me. ;)

Anyone else with some thoughts on this or more electrical geeky than me that can point me in the direction of total rfid elimination and some system that holds the driver accountable to the vehicle regarding where the keys are? And that brick these machines come with...really FCA? Men don't do purses ok, i hate this to be a news flash but this should be really obvious, we put shit in our pants pockets and that abomination is intolerable!

Hook me up with some direction my fellow jeepers!:please::please::please:
i'm envisioning a device that attaches to the push button. you insert your key into it and then push the fob until it then pushes the button and you start the car. The RFID will be blocked because you will be pushing the fob with the back of your mouth as your mouth is securely encompassing the entire key fob. Please waterproof your key fob with pfas prior to doing this. Man i have some sexy/great ideas sometimes.
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Uh, that slot between the cup holders - that's for the fob. Not that you can't get out and leave the fob in the fob slot, but there's a specific place for it. Between where your coffee cup and beer can go.
It's not the same though. The BMW slot actually clicks your key into place and you can use that slot to start the car if the battery in the key is dead as well. The slot in the Jeep is ok, but once you have multiple keys on a keychain it doesn't fit any longer.
 

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It's not the same though. The BMW slot actually clicks your key into place and you can use that slot to start the car if the battery in the key is dead as well. The slot in the Jeep is ok, but once you have multiple keys on a keychain it doesn't fit any longer.
The Jeep is similar. You hold the FOB against the button to start it when the battery in the FOB dies. The beauty of the Jeep system is the FOB never needs to leave your pocket, unless you don't have the proximity locks. I keep my keys on a separate ring, nothing gets attached to the FOB.
 

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your gas cap has a lock on it?!
First thing I bought. Mopar 82215184 CAP KIT https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07BQG4JHZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_6cmfEbV258WCY

And a short antenna. CravenSpeed Stubby Antenna Replacement for The Jeep Wrangler (JK)(JL) and Jeep Gladiator (JT) 2007-2020 | 3.2 inches https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B007PV1Z42/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_czmfEbKXT8BSB

This one is also available. CravenSpeed Bullet Style Stubby Antenna Replacement for the Jeep Wrangler (JK/JL) and Jeep Gladiator (JT) 2007-2020 | 5.4 inches https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B072JXHHH6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_NzmfEb8VTQ20M
 
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Jt-wrx

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That's why mine only comes out of my pocket to unlock the gas cap.
And on a hot day, no pockets, or not wanting in shorts/pants pockets as it is simply too big for anything but a jacket pocket or a purse. Where you put your keys then? Anyways most men run a front pocket and we keep our personals to a minimum (or else purses would be the norm for us too) so it's a huge miss on any manufacturers part to make the fob too big to consider for half the populations needs. Further to this is the fact the key has no memory place to go that's reliable, ie; in the dash where it belongs, it's simple connected by thin air...and further to this...it's connected by thin air, there's something majorly wrong at the biggest picture of levels that your key is not physically attached to the vehicle it's designed to operate. No key, no control of vehicle period. If it's connected by thin air then that is not control, that's accidental misplacement and accountability issues on many levels. I'd argue again that having others connected by computers through satellites to your vehicle is a major no no from a liability and accountability standpoint. Some hack shuts you down on a freeway with semi-trucks behind you? Good lord, where do we come up with this stuff, completely forgo the big picture. These are 2 ton machines we are piloting at pretty considerable speeds amongst ourselves. I'm at least glad to not have a satellite hooked up to this sport s but the wireless key is still an awful idea on so many real fronts just for the convenience of pushing a button? Not worth it.
 

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And on a hot day, no pockets, or not wanting in shorts/pants pockets as it is simply too big for anything but a jacket pocket or a purse. Where you put your keys then? Anyways most men run a front pocket and we keep our personals to a minimum (or else purses would be the norm for us too) so it's a huge miss on any manufacturers part to make the fob too big to consider for half the populations needs. Further to this is the fact the key has no memory place to go that's reliable, ie; in the dash where it belongs, it's simple connected by thin air...and further to this...it's connected by thin air, there's something majorly wrong at the biggest picture of levels that your key is not physically attached to the vehicle it's designed to operate. No key, no control of vehicle period. If it's connected by thin air then that is not control, that's accidental misplacement and accountability issues on many levels. I'd argue again that having others connected by computers through satellites to your vehicle is a major no no from a liability and accountability standpoint. Some hack shuts you down on a freeway with semi-trucks behind you? Good lord, where do we come up with this stuff, completely forgo the big picture. These are 2 ton machines we are piloting at pretty considerable speeds amongst ourselves. I'm at least glad to not have a satellite hooked up to this sport s but the wireless key is still an awful idea on so many real fronts just for the convenience of pushing a button? Not worth it.
So here you are on a public forum where the admin and likely others can gather your IP address and a whole lot of other stuff - get you to click a link and WHAM, I'm in.
You do realize that is far more easily done, and far more likely than a remote hack stopping your vehicle, I assume.
Doesn't matter how many times you repeat your hatred of vehicle technology, it ain't going away and it's very unlikely you'll bring others to the anti-"evil technology" side.
You know that more people have locked keys in vehicles, lost keys, misplaced keys. Just because you are perfect and never misplace or lose keys or wallet - doesn't mean the rest of the world is as perfect. I've watched people ask where their glasses were, where their hats were - when they were right on top of their head. Looking for a pencil - check on your ear.
You are arguing that your perfection in those matters is reason these fobs are evil, the remote systems are evil. You are pretty much alone in perfection not forgetting, losing or misplacing keys.
You are claiming that because it's NOT a key that it will be forgotten or lost more often? Hardly.
You haven't worked in a shop and with police as far as going to rescue people who have lost keys, locked them in the car, LOCKED THEM IN THE TRUNK, and more.
There's no reason in the world a person will lose track of a fob more than a key.
Start the day in the house - you have a key or you have a fob - why is it more likely you'll misplace or lose the fob? Why will a person not lose track of the key but they would the fob?

You take the key or fob to the vehicle - start, go someplace - why is it more likely you will lose or misplace a fob rather than a key?
You have the fob in a pocket, or a clip, on your person, or you leave it in the fob slot.
Only takes a couple of times for a typical person to train themselves and get some muscle memory going so that they instinctively reach for that fob when exiting.
Go to lock the vehicle, well, gee, you need the fob or it won't lock (at least most won't lock with the fob inside)
So there you go - you can't lock it with the fob in it - but you sure as heck can lock your KEYS in the vehicle - even with it running.
You DO lock your vehicle when you go shopping or leave it parked and go to work? You can lock the key in it - but not the fob (at least my Chevy gave me crap if I tried and my wife tried to lock her GC then found - oops, she took her jacket off and it's still in the Jeep - can't lock it. Now had it been a KEY, she could have locked it - with key inside. Fob didn't allow that.

I recall when seatbelt laws first became a big deal in Iowa. Winter over, I get my Yamaha Maxim out and get on, start it - and damn, I reached to fasten the seat belt! LOL - muscle memory - you instinctively do something before moving not even thinking about it.

I still don't see how you believe that the world SHOULD hate these so much - or that a key is easier and will be remembered. I say otherwise - I worked in the real world helping people who LOST or forgot or locked them in the TRUNK or in the car...........
Yeah, I've had to pull back seats out and get into the trunk so people could retrieve their keys.
 

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So here you are on a public forum where the admin and likely others can gather your IP address and a whole lot of other stuff - get you to click a link and WHAM, I'm in.
You do realize that is far more easily done, and far more likely than a remote hack stopping your vehicle, I assume.
Doesn't matter how many times you repeat your hatred of vehicle technology, it ain't going away and it's very unlikely you'll bring others to the anti-"evil technology" side.
You know that more people have locked keys in vehicles, lost keys, misplaced keys. Just because you are perfect and never misplace or lose keys or wallet - doesn't mean the rest of the world is as perfect. I've watched people ask where their glasses were, where their hats were - when they were right on top of their head. Looking for a pencil - check on your ear.
You are arguing that your perfection in those matters is reason these fobs are evil, the remote systems are evil. You are pretty much alone in perfection not forgetting, losing or misplacing keys.
You are claiming that because it's NOT a key that it will be forgotten or lost more often? Hardly.
You haven't worked in a shop and with police as far as going to rescue people who have lost keys, locked them in the car, LOCKED THEM IN THE TRUNK, and more.
There's no reason in the world a person will lose track of a fob more than a key.
Start the day in the house - you have a key or you have a fob - why is it more likely you'll misplace or lose the fob? Why will a person not lose track of the key but they would the fob?

You take the key or fob to the vehicle - start, go someplace - why is it more likely you will lose or misplace a fob rather than a key?
You have the fob in a pocket, or a clip, on your person, or you leave it in the fob slot.
Only takes a couple of times for a typical person to train themselves and get some muscle memory going so that they instinctively reach for that fob when exiting.
Go to lock the vehicle, well, gee, you need the fob or it won't lock (at least most won't lock with the fob inside)
So there you go - you can't lock it with the fob in it - but you sure as heck can lock your KEYS in the vehicle - even with it running.
You DO lock your vehicle when you go shopping or leave it parked and go to work? You can lock the key in it - but not the fob (at least my Chevy gave me crap if I tried and my wife tried to lock her GC then found - oops, she took her jacket off and it's still in the Jeep - can't lock it. Now had it been a KEY, she could have locked it - with key inside. Fob didn't allow that.

I recall when seatbelt laws first became a big deal in Iowa. Winter over, I get my Yamaha Maxim out and get on, start it - and damn, I reached to fasten the seat belt! LOL - muscle memory - you instinctively do something before moving not even thinking about it.

I still don't see how you believe that the world SHOULD hate these so much - or that a key is easier and will be remembered. I say otherwise - I worked in the real world helping people who LOST or forgot or locked them in the TRUNK or in the car...........
Yeah, I've had to pull back seats out and get into the trunk so people could retrieve their keys.
I actually agree there. I've just as easily forgotten my key when exiting my BMW as I have in my Gladiator. Even with the little key slot in the BMW I forget it sometimes by just being careless. When I don't have it in my pocket it has slid out of my pocket and under my seat before I've even realized it. There's really no other solution than to just train yourself to make sure you've got your key when you exit the vehicle.

I also love the technology. Starting up the Gladiator from my phone in bed when I wake up is great since my keys are 50 ft away by the garage.
 
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Jt-wrx

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Well as much as you tried to redirect with my apparent perfectionism, you seemed to skip out on any discussion around accountability of operating a two ton machine amongst us all. You’re ok with the the vehicle ignition system behind approved by something other than a mechanical link directly in control of the operator and impossible for anyone else to have that control? It’s not perfection I’m seeking or even discussing. There’s a big picture reality here, people think it’s our right to be able to pilot these things amongst us and it’s not, the death stats globally will easily prove my point. And we want to add pieces to the puzzle? Other people now have easy access to your vehicle by thin air? Brilliant we are. This can be be argued on that alone, not even talk about the reliability of one mechanical ignition source in the dash in terms of muscle memory and not losing your keys. But hey you brought it up...nothing more muscle memory than the keyed ignition. No arguments from me on our ability to misplace things but odds going up when your key is attached by thin air lol.✌
 

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Slapping_Rabbits

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Well as much as you tried to redirect with my apparent perfectionism, you seemed to skip out on any discussion around accountability of operating a two ton machine amongst us all. You’re ok with the the vehicle ignition system behind approved by something other than a mechanical link directly in control of the operator and impossible for anyone else to have that control? It’s not perfection I’m seeking or even discussing. There’s a big picture reality here, people think it’s our right to be able to pilot these things amongst us and it’s not, the death stats globally will easily prove my point. And we want to add pieces to the puzzle? Other people now have easy access to your vehicle by thin air? Brilliant we are. This can be be argued on that alone, not even talk about the reliability of one mechanical ignition source in the dash in terms of muscle memory and not losing your keys. But hey you brought it up...nothing more muscle memory than the keyed ignition. No arguments from me on our ability to misplace things but odds going up when your key is attached by thin air lol.✌
What are you trying to say?
 

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What are you trying to say?
Who knows.

My point in all of this - the examples given over the years require either direct access to the vehicle to install a device, require that the owner use those blutooth OBDII readers, or download an app to their phone that is NOT supplied by the vehicle maker or some other things that are extremely unlikely.
Proof of concept is not indication of likelihood. Just because a person CAN do certain things doesn't mean it will happen.
I worked network and endpoint security for years at three different places, the latter being government.
What hackers want is best bang for the buck. They want something for their effort.
For example - for years Google Chrome and Apple's browser were the least safe, most hackable browsers out there bar none. IE was the MOST safe! Seriously, for all the talk of IE being compromised, it was the most safe browser on the market while Apple and Google owned the bottom - the most easily hacked.
So why IE was seen as so vulnerable? Market share - IE was 3/4 of the browsers out there at the time. So hackers hit them, ignoring the others because there was no return for them. So they worked to get into IE because it yielded them results - big corporations, government, etc. while ignoring Chrome and others that they could simply drive a truck through.
The complexities involved in "hacking" cars are pretty deep. And for what? Kicks? Computer viruses used to be created by script-kiddies who were bored or wanted something to do or prove. The virus Form was created with a nasty message aimed at the virus authors apparent girl friend hidden inside the code. It was more like kids driving around a neighborhood busting out car windows and taking baseball bats to mail boxes.
The days like that are gone. It's now pros, and criminals, looking for return. Ransomware, hacking for information, money, phishing and so on.
So although some vehicles CAN be hacked - where has it ever been done other than proof of concept, white-hat hackers proving points and sending messages?
So they can start a car - so? How often has it happened- proof, links.
So you can intercept a signal and later unlock a vehicle - I can do that with almost any pre-OBD car or truck, in minutes.
They can start a car according to the proof of concept articles - so? Really, so what? Where are all the articles showing how often it's happened and the bad results. Where are they - and I don't mean "proof of concept".
So it's started - and it shuts off after a few minutes, and can't be driven.
They can confuse the system, flood it with corrupt messages causing the ECM to cut that device off - so - for what purpose? Has it actually been done outside of proof of concept? How often of the hundreds of thousands of OBD vehicles out there.
Hackers want return, they want results.
You are far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver - or a SLEEPING DRIVER. My family has proof of that.
I'd like to see all of the TRUE, verified articles showing vehicles being hacked NOT BY WHITE-HAT HACKERS doing a proof of concept or trying to make a point, but by the bad guys just trying to wreak havoc (and not based on a lame NCIS or Scorpion episode showing non-sense things)

You are going to be hacked at home first. Your email account, banking, IoT - TV, malware on your phone or computer.

The auto makers are very aware - there are ways to prevent some of this from happening.
There are ways to get around a lot of this stuff - encryption, PINS, rolling codes, and more.
Years ago Lexus lead the pack by having different wiring diagrams for each car made - you needed something electric or electronic worked on, you had to have the VIN, contact the company, provide credentials, and your dealer would be given access to that vehicles specific wiring diagrams.

First - do not ever download any free stuff to your phone. Skip the "download now for free" BS. No games, nothing that isn't an app that you NEED or require and verify the source. Some of the hacks were made more easy by people having free software on their phone that they used to interact with their vehicle. Good grief - free is not FREE. Those people have bills to pay, they gotta eat, servers cost, etc. No such thing as FREE. I don't run much of anything on my phone, period. I even give my wife crap when she wants some new free thing on her phone. She's slowed with the games and other stuff lately.
Run security software on your phone - and lock it with a PIN or fingerprint. Skip the facial rec stuff - too easy to get past. I could spoof that.
After you've had your vehicle worked on by someone you don't know or fully trust - check for things plugged in, or in or on the vehicle you don't recognize.

Still, again, proof of concept doesn't mean something is happening. It just means it can. Unless they can actually TAKE your car or make money or otherwise benefit - the risks are smaller than if you have a non-electronic keyed system because I can get in and take your car and drive away with it and you won't find it once I'm done. I don't need a key to take your 1980 whatever. Your non-OBDII vehicle can't be tracked or remotely shut down by the car company - these can be. Someone messed with your brakes? Know what the emergency/parking brake is for? USE IT.

And if you don't like these systems - don't buy 'em. But all the griping in the world about it isn't going to cause the auto makers to reverse course or change. Write a book about it - it won't change a thing, it won't change minds. The advantages are still far greater than the disadvantages.
 

Slapping_Rabbits

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This is an excellent example of perceived risk vs actual risk. Barely any chance of your car getting hacked. It's true. It's basically a non issue right now. It'd be easier to just steal the damn key. Some people just hate change and technology. You can hold out for a long time but eventually you will have to adapt in some form. For me the increase in tech is partly what made me want the gladiator. All that safety stuff is great especially now that I have a kid.
 

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This is an excellent example of perceived risk vs actual risk. Barely any chance of your car getting hacked. It's true. It's basically a non issue right now. It'd be easier to just steal the damn key. Some people just hate change and technology. You can hold out for a long time but eventually you will have to adapt in some form. For me the increase in tech is partly what made me want the gladiator. All that safety stuff is great especially now that I have a kid.
Exactly. All of the tech combined with the convertible aspect AND a truck bed was the reason I decided to take on a new car payment and buy a Gladiator. A lot of this new tech is actually saving lives. Most accidents are caused by crappy drivers, not technology.
 

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This is an excellent example of perceived risk vs actual risk. Barely any chance of your car getting hacked. It's true. It's basically a non issue right now. It'd be easier to just steal the damn key. Some people just hate change and technology. You can hold out for a long time but eventually you will have to adapt in some form. For me the increase in tech is partly what made me want the gladiator. All that safety stuff is great especially now that I have a kid.
Amen - having kids is one reason I opted for the car I did back in 84. Safety, getting there no matter the weather.
In this case part of the reason I "traded trucks" was I WANTED the technology. I wanted the safety items. It's partly for me - but it's partly for the fact you have to defend yourself these days. Anyone who wants to drive can drive, or is allowed to drive.

Exactly. All of the tech combined with the convertible aspect AND a truck bed was the reason I decided to take on a new car payment and buy a Gladiator. A lot of this new tech is actually saving lives. Most accidents are caused by crappy drivers, not technology.
My father would be alive today if more cars had the better safety technology. It would have woke up the kid that fell asleep and crossed the whole highway. A highschool friend, daughter of my first shop boss, wouldn't have lived all of her adult life in a skilled care facility as the guy that fell asleep and crossed the highway hitting her head-on would MAYBE have been alerted.
Mercedes has technology that tracks your driving habits and you don't even have to cross the line for it to alert you with a coffee cup symbol and alarm.
And for me, with EDS, I wish the JT had lane departure warnings. I'd have bought that option in a heartbeat.
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