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What winch?

whiteglad

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I bought two Harbor Freight 12,000 winches and put one on my Recon. I could use the other one on the Gladiator. I chose it for amount of amp draw vs. load vs. line speed, and reasonable weight. I don't want to add 200 pounds to the front end when I take off the plastic bumper. The stock steel Recon 3-piece bumper, tow hooks, and skid plate weigh 96 pounds, and a JK plastic bumper is more like 40 lb, so the Glad bumper is probably similar. The added weight is at the very front, putting leverage on the suspension. If you need a stronger battery, that is more weight up front.
 
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Warn 9.5XP... This is from the original alpha run of Warn 9.5XP’s from 2006... I know this, because I’ve had it new in box since then. Hahaha. These are SUPER strong winches for hardcore off-roading. High-speed gearboxes, massive planetaries.

I bought 2 of them for an off-road build that never came to be. Sold one to my dad, and it’s been on his 2008 Ram 2500 Cummins ever since with zero complaints. It will drag his nearly 10,000 lbs. truck from a stand-still like it was nothing. Warn outdid themselves back then. This winch pulls like a M12000, but with fast gearing.

I don’t know about the new versions, but if you can find an NOS one, get it! :like:

88937554-0C6D-4880-AFCD-0CF06A6BABC2.jpeg
 
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PyrPatriot

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So I just put on my first winch last Friday. My buddy and I were working till midnight and it was a learning experience for me, at least. Didn't get to do all the things I was supposed to do (mainly unspool it and rewind it under tension), or torque the winch into the plate (because the instructions didn't have it and Smittybilt was only emailed by me yesterday). But, with a solid week of rain coming that means 2 weeks of no wheeling, so I can catch up on things, change the oil, inspect the diff fluid, etc. I have started on researching winches more (spent a few days prior to buying) and wanted to ask some questions on some posts here.

First, I bought the Smittybilt X20 10k winch with steel line and a Rugged Ridge plate. They were available locally. At fist I thought the 10k would be enough, but now as I learn things I have concerns. A winch should be 1.5 times the vehicle weight. Well, with curb weight of 4700lbs I thought 10k would be fine. Except after installing everything and heading out to the trails with the wife and kid, plus gear, we were at 6000lbs! Compound on that, you don't get the full winch pull strength until you are on the innermost layer of line.

Smittybilt also had this to say about that:

Since the greatest pulling power is achieved on the innermost layer of your winch, it is desirable to pull off as much line as you can for heavy pulls(you must leave at least 5 wraps minimum on the drum----red cable). If this is not practical use a snatch block and double line arrangement.
Which means I only have 85ft of actual line to work with, not 98ft. And when using a snatchblock, you cut the line speed, thus increasing the strain, right? What is interesting to note is the 12k X20 draws less AMPs, even at 12k. The 10k at 10k lbs it draws 415 AMPs but with the 12k at 12k lbs draws 330 AMPs!!! More and more I am thinking I should have just spent the extra $150 on the 12k... Did I make the wrong choice with the 10k? Even at the outermost layer the winch still pulls over the GVWR of the vehicle, but the vehicle's weight could be increased by a myriad of factors, especially mud! But most likely not paying attention to what I have in it (I was shocked to be at 6000lbs)

Jeep Gladiator What winch? SB X20 10k.PNG




So in my case an 9-10K pounds would work. I don't do climbing up the sides of a cliff - and likely wouldn't try to pull anything twice the weight of my JT anyway.
I've also heard good about the Harbor Freight brand and the Smittybilt brand. Those are the places I'd look for my type of use and need - it's more insurance than anything. All of these years I've never been in a spot where I'd even need a winch.
What about the winch pulling less as the line is shorter?

I was a president of an off-road club and when wheeling a winch comes in to play more for mud. And when you or another rig is truly stuck in the mud there’s a suction that holds the rig in! I’ve seen it so bad that you would have to use a snatch block which cuts the weight/suction in half. The other thing a snatch block is used for is a change of direction to make a pull!
As far as mounting plates go there’s an industry standard for bolt holes other than that it’s a pick your favorite design!
Working for several years in a shop that did 24/7/365 wrecker service showed me what I learned in school about pulley systems - snatch blocks are your friend. It's one reason a "come-along" can be used to load a 3200 pound car onto a trailer when the rear wheels are locked up..... they are based on the snatch block thought. You aren't directly reeling in that cable. The other end has the pulley made into it.
What about the shorter length on line pull speed?

Bulldog 15,000lb.

Jeep Gladiator What winch? SB X20 10k.PNG
What winch plate? So far the only one I have found to be rated for 15k is the Mopar one.

My son told me some things about the factories in China - especially after a guy he knows bought one over there. And based on several other things I've observed - including a story told by a guy who had his product made over there when he first came out with it - only to find the same thing being sold at Harbor Freight and other discount stores for hundreds less - he decided to buy his own factory in China and the patent and design thefts went away.
It indeed looks slick. I personally like the control box over the line as a form of extra protection. Yes, the line does not need protection, but it's a psychological thing of liking to keep things covered. I LOVE how the grill has a concave section to accommodate winch boxes and not block the radiator air intake.

Smitty X2O, second one I used. Take care of them and they work when you need them. By this I mean, and this is for any winch, Run them in and out every few months.
SB on the topic
Lubrication installation
All moving parts in the winch are permanently lubricated with high temperature lithium grease at the time of assembly. Lubricate cable periodically using light penetrating oil. Inspect for broken strands and replace if necessary. If the cable becomes worn or damaged it must be replaced.
...
It is highly recommended that the winch be used regularly (once a month). Simply power the cable out 15m, free spool 5m and then power back in. this will keep all components in good working condition so that the winch can be relied on when needed.
 

tampahoosier

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I plan to go a 12k winch. What I've read also (saw someone else make this comment) is that you should double the weight of your rig and that's the size you need to pick.

I have the 8k Warn Zeon on my jeep TJ and had no problems with it. But I've seen several torture tests over the past few months sine I've been researching again. The Warns aren't holding up to some of the others out there like Superwinch and even Smittybilt. Superwinch is still sort of MIA about the closing/buyout by Westin. Heck I saw the Harborfrieght Badlands winch beat out the Warn in torture test in one of the 4x4 magazines.

I think Warn is a great brand but it appears they are not really price competitive anymore and their products are not holding up as they should/used it. Guess they are price off of name.

The new smittybuilt XRC Gen3 12k Comp is at the top of my list for winches right now.
 

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tampahoosier

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So I just put on my first winch last Friday. My buddy and I were working till midnight and it was a learning experience for me, at least. Didn't get to do all the things I was supposed to do (mainly unspool it and rewind it under tension), or torque the winch into the plate (because the instructions didn't have it and Smittybilt was only emailed by me yesterday). But, with a solid week of rain coming that means 2 weeks of no wheeling, so I can catch up on things, change the oil, inspect the diff fluid, etc. I have started on researching winches more (spent a few days prior to buying) and wanted to ask some questions on some posts here.

First, I bought the Smittybilt X20 10k winch with steel line and a Rugged Ridge plate. They were available locally. At fist I thought the 10k would be enough, but now as I learn things I have concerns. A winch should be 1.5 times the vehicle weight. Well, with curb weight of 4700lbs I thought 10k would be fine. Except after installing everything and heading out to the trails with the wife and kid, plus gear, we were at 6000lbs! Compound on that, you don't get the full winch pull strength until you are on the innermost layer of line.

Smittybilt also had this to say about that:



Which means I only have 85ft of actual line to work with, not 98ft. And when using a snatchblock, you cut the line speed, thus increasing the strain, right? What is interesting to note is the 12k X20 draws less AMPs, even at 12k. The 10k at 10k lbs it draws 415 AMPs but with the 12k at 12k lbs draws 330 AMPs!!! More and more I am thinking I should have just spent the extra $150 on the 12k... Did I make the wrong choice with the 10k? Even at the outermost layer the winch still pulls over the GVWR of the vehicle, but the vehicle's weight could be increased by a myriad of factors, especially mud! But most likely not paying attention to what I have in it (I was shocked to be at 6000lbs)

Jeep Gladiator What winch? SB X20 10k.PNG






What about the winch pulling less as the line is shorter?





What about the shorter length on line pull speed?



What winch plate? So far the only one I have found to be rated for 15k is the Mopar one.




It indeed looks slick. I personally like the control box over the line as a form of extra protection. Yes, the line does not need protection, but it's a psychological thing of liking to keep things covered. I LOVE how the grill has a concave section to accommodate winch boxes and not block the radiator air intake.



SB on the topic
A snatch block is great, it decreases the strain on the winch and allows you to almost double your pulling power. A snatch block does come with it's own complications, or problems, as you are now feeding out twice as much line and having to change how you clip/wrap/strap to your anchor point.

But as noted the gains from a snatch block are great. In my opinion every gear bag should have one of these in it.

Here's a good link on the snatch block:
https://www.safetyliftingear.com/news/post/what-is-a-snatch-block
 

PyrPatriot

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A snatch block is great, it decreases the strain on the winch and allows you to almost double your pulling power. A snatch block does come with it's own complications, or problems, as you are now feeding out twice as much line and having to change how you clip/wrap/strap to your anchor point.

But as noted the gains from a snatch block are great. In my opinion every gear bag should have one of these in it.

Here's a good link on the snatch block:
https://www.safetyliftingear.com/news/post/what-is-a-snatch-block
I get the line/physics of the snatch block. But ultimately it still only lets you reach the maximum pull of your winch. A snatch block won't turn your 10k winch into a 20k winch. It will let you get to the 10k limit in a shorter distance from vehicle to anchor point.

Tell me, learned and experienced members on here, do I need to go through the headache of getting the 12k winch?
 

tampahoosier

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I get the line/physics of the snatch block. But ultimately it still only lets you reach the maximum pull of your winch. A snatch block won't turn your 10k winch into a 20k winch. It will let you get to the 10k limit in a shorter distance from vehicle to anchor point.

Tell me, learned and experienced members on here, do I need to go through the headache of getting the 12k winch?
Yes... a snatch block DOES double the rating of your winch. If you have a 10k winch you are closer to 20k when using a snatch block. That's why snatch blocks are good and that IS because of the line/physics of the snatch block. That's also why they say you need to be very cognizant of what you are strapping to. And be aware of the rating on your snatch block. If you have a 10k winch get a snatch block rated for at least 20k.
 
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TampaHoosier is correct. The snatchblock’s design does allow 1.5-2x the deadweight pulling capabilities of your winch’s rating.
 

PyrPatriot

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Yes... a snatch block DOES double the rating of your winch. If you have a 10k winch you are closer to 20k when using a snatch block. That's why snatch blocks are good and that IS because of the line/physics of the snatch block. That's also why they say you need to be very cognizant of what you are strapping to. And be aware of the rating on your snatch block. If you have a 10k winch get a snatch block rated for at least 20k.
How does that work? The rating of the winch is based on things like the drum size, cooling, power intake, etc. From page 16 of the SB manual

With 85ft of line on the drum the winch pulls 6300lbs. With 40ft of line on the drum it pulls 8850lbs. That is about half the line on the drum remaining (equivalent to a snatch block letting out twice as much line) yet pull only went up 40%. What am I failing to understand?
 

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tampahoosier

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How does that work? The rating of the winch is based on things like the drum size, cooling, power intake, etc. From page 16 of the SB manual

With 85ft of line on the drum the winch pulls 6300lbs. With 40ft of line on the drum it pulls 8850lbs. That is about half the line on the drum remaining (equivalent to a snatch block letting out twice as much line) yet pull only went up 40%. What am I failing to understand?
Simple physics lol

I'm not hear to teach physics, it's not my specialty. I'm sure you could do a google search or two and find the information you're looking for. Bottom line you're adding a pulley and that's what they are used for, increase pull.
 

Bbannongmu

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Simple physics lol

I'm not hear to teach physics, it's not my specialty. I'm sure you could do a google search or two and find the information you're looking for. Bottom line you're adding a pulley and that's what they are used for, increase pull.
From 25 years of off-roading and winching, I agree. Pulleys - snatch blocks make it a lot easier and essentially double the power (and simultaneously halve the speed) of the winch. Slower ...yes but recovery is rarely done quickly, when done correctly and safely. I’ve used a Ramsey 8k winch and a snatch block (and had to attach my truck another truck) to drag a Ford F-550 supercrew that was stuck on the frame rails at the beach, onto the wet sand so it could drive off. Trust in physics, try stuff out and be deliberate and safe.
 

PyrPatriot

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So my next question, and asked in another thread, is what synthetic winch rope? Brand?
 

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PyrPatriot

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