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Why you SHOULD be able to tow more than sticker outside of the mountains

mojocho

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Two thoughts come to mind for me...

Every truck uses the same test so you could say the F150 has the same amount of about over the started amount.

Second, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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Two thoughts come to mind for me...

Every truck uses the same test so you could say the F150 has the same amount of about over the started amount.

Second, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Excellent point
 

Bbannongmu

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This sounds like rationalization for a future failure or accident. Seems like a good case for getting another, properly rated tow vehicle if you have recurring, max tow needs. My $0.02, FWIW
 

TennesseePA

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All towing vehicles have a capability and safety margin built into their design. If the maximum tow rating really was all that it could do then there would be tons of reliability issues secondary to consistently operating at maximum capability. Second is safety. Jeep has to assume that there are a certain number of inexperienced drivers with very experienced attorneys that will max out and get themselves into trouble. If an accident occurs and the truck is operating at it’s absolute maximum then the attorney would argue that Jeep either knew or should have known that inexperienced drivers would own their vehicles. I have spent years and years with a trailer hooked to the back of my truck and I grew up working at a sawmill where my dad had me loading lumber of semi trucks all summer long. I know how to load and I know how to drive but not everyone does. Anyone is capable of making a mistake, including myself, or ending up in a situation that was not your fault but, because your truck was at absolute maximum, you could not avoid the situation. Jeep, or any other manufacturer, does not want to litigate tow ratings so they build in margins to ward off the actions of idiots and lawyers.
 

MrJeep

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This thread is an interesting way to look at it from a purely mechanical perspective.
As others pointed out: insurance, wear and tear on vehicle, safety, driver fatigue, lawsuits, etc. also need to be considered in the equation for each tow.
I CAN tow my TJ on a car trailer behind the Gladiator, but until I try it this spring I won't know if I WANT to.
 

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LostWoods

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But now I don't feel so bad towing 8000lbs on my own, or fully utilizing the truck by loading my family and gear up, and maxing out payload with a 7500lb trailer.
You may not feel bad now, but you will if you actually do it.
Even with how horrible it is to tow something over your GVWR in a small vehicle, it's going to really suck if the worst happens and insurance laughs at your claim for being overweight. These legal constraints exist and just because you can do something doesn't mean it's allowed. I mean I can control my vehicle at well above the speed limit better than most but I'm damn well going to get a ticket if I get caught.
 

TennesseePA

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Even with how horrible it is to tow something over your GVWR in a small vehicle, it's going to really suck if the worst happens and insurance laughs at your claim for being overweight. These legal constraints exist and just because you can do something doesn't mean it's allowed. I mean I can control my vehicle at well above the speed limit better than most but I'm damn well going to get a ticket if I get caught.
I read this argument every time that the subject arises but an insurance company will not deny your claim unless there is a specific clause in the language of your policy stating that if you are overweight you waive your coverage. I personally have never been driving under the influence and gotten into an accident but over the course of my 50 years I have known a few idiots who did. Guess what, their insurance paid the claim. Even though everyone knows or should have known that driving under the influence is stupid, dangerous and illegal. That is the very purpose of insurance, to transfer the risk from the individual to another entity.
 

LostWoods

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I read this argument every time that the subject arises but an insurance company will not deny your claim unless there is a specific clause in the language of your policy stating that if you are overweight you waive your coverage. I personally have never been driving under the influence and gotten into an accident but over the course of my 50 years I have known a few idiots who did. Guess what, their insurance paid the claim. Even though everyone knows or should have known that driving under the influence is stupid, dangerous and illegal. That is the very purpose of insurance, to transfer the risk from the individual to another entity.
There is always language in your insurance regarding these things. Insurance can deny claims for being under the influence or intentionally operating your vehicle outside its intended operating parameters even if they frequently don't. Insurance includes even grossly negligent activities but these aren't negligent, they're intentional.

The very purpose of insurance is to transfer risk but the very core of insurance, like any other such agreement, is that both parties are operating in good faith. Intentionally overloading isn't acting in good faith.
 

TennesseePA

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I have never heard of an insurance company denying a claim for reasons that we are discussing. Although I have never heard of it that does not mean that it does not exist. Can you cite for me incidences of it happening? I am pretty much a model Boy Southerner's when it comes to the law so I do not have personal experience with anything outside of it's boundaries. But it seems to me that if a for profit company could deny a claim and transfer the expense off of their books and onto someone else's they would do it with great frequency and there would be multiple examples for us to study.
 
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PyrPatriot

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There is always language in your insurance regarding these things.
My insurance policy does not have that provision. Just re-read it. Nothing on overweight vehicles or a general provision on excluding violations of the law. Of course, that could be a KY requirement. The only restriction on trailers for my auto policy is that they can't be used to sleep/live in, no built-in sleeping parts; or used for commercial use. I covered the nuances of insurance policy language and what mine does and does not cover in another thread

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/check-your-insurance-coverage.27182/
 

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LostWoods

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I have never heard of an insurance company denying a claim for reasons that we are discussing. Although I have never heard of it that does not mean that it does not exist. Can you cite for me incidences of it happening? I am pretty much a model Boy Southerner's when it comes to the law so I do not have personal experience with anything outside of it's boundaries. But it seems to me that if a for profit company could deny a claim and transfer the expense off of their books and onto someone else's they would do it with great frequency and there would be multiple examples for us to study.
My insurance policy does not have that provision. Just re-read it. Nothing on overweight vehicles or a general provision on excluding violations of the law. Of course, that could be a KY requirement. The only restriction on trailers for my auto policy is that they can't be used to sleep/live in, no built-in sleeping parts; or used for commercial use. I covered the nuances of insurance policy language and what mine does and does not cover in another thread

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/check-your-insurance-coverage.27182/
I have seen it before but personal anecdotes are meaningless to either side of this argument. They covered the damages but when the other party brought in a personal injury lawyer, the insurance company washed their hands of it and he was a wreck for over a year dealing with that headache.

I've never seen it in plain language but I have seen generic language in nearly every policy I've had that could include it. Even if your agent says one thing, your policy isn't with your agent, it's with their company and the language in the contract is king.

But all of this academic discussion is meaningless when the question really remains, why even risk it? You're still open to lawsuits for willfully ignoring the rated capability of your vehicle and any officer that suspects you're overweight can quickly turn into a complete pain the ass. The simple answer is that if you need to move more than the truck is capable, rent something that can or buy more truck.
 
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PyrPatriot

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I have seen it before but personal anecdotes are meaningless to either side of this argument. They covered the damages but when the other party brought in a personal injury lawyer, the insurance company washed their hands of it and he was a wreck for over a year dealing with that headache.

I've never seen it in plain language but I have seen generic language in nearly every policy I've had that could include it. Even if your agent says one thing, your policy isn't with your agent, it's with their company and the language in the contract is king.

But all of this academic discussion is meaningless when the question really remains, why even risk it? You're still open to lawsuits for willfully ignoring the rated capability of your vehicle and any officer that suspects you're overweight can quickly turn into a complete pain the ass. The simple answer is that if you need to move more than the truck is capable, rent something that can or buy more truck.
Oh I know about the risk with personal injury, having worked in it a bit myself. And with insurance contract language, which does NOT rule the outcome of the case, state law/case law does. I however, do understand your point.

I would never advise someone to go over their limits. However, when you change things around, those limits change. Lots of discussion on that subject. Specifically, I would want to know that I can tow more than rated for personal reasons, like pulling out a larger vehicle of a friend stuck, or needing to pull something over weight on my property (which btw my policy excludes any damage/injury occurring anywhere outside of public roadways - that means even the shoulder on the highway, my own driveway, or a road leading to a barn in my yard is excluded from coverage). So if coverage is not available on my own land, and i find the need to temporarily and for a short distance move something, I will feel better knowing I can. Or even on the roads, I'll feel better knowing if I can't get an exact weigh of my trailer, not knowing if it's 7500 or 8000, the weight won't break the truck's back, so to speak if the trip is relatively short and not going up a mountain lol
 
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Here is a supplement I found to our manual. It was in the back of the glovebox. The underline is mine. I got the regular tow with hd engine cooling, trans, and oil coolers, 240 amp alternator. I also got the lsd. The 4.88 gears are going in next week. I dont tow a lot on the island but it sure adds a lot of nice parts to my truck for 350 bucks as an option.

20200320_151715.jpg
 

tstugel

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I think this article says just because you should be ABLE to doesn't mean you should DO it

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto...pacity/information/truck-towing-capacity1.htm
When you ask your truck to pull more than it was meant to -- exceeding its towing capacity -- a number of things start to happen: The brakes begin to fade, the added weight contributes to tire failure, and the extra work required of your engine causes it to overheat, which, in turn, overloads the drivetrain and shortens the life of your transmission. Although you may not see the effects of exceeding towing capacity at first, the gradual wear and tear will lead to eventual failure. The best case scenario is repeated trips to the repair shop; the worst is a major wreck...the extra weight pulling on the back of your vehicle significantly hampers your braking ability and steering control. When the back of your truck is loaded down, the front tires come up, causing them to lose some traction with the road. Without those front tires firmly on the ground, you'll definitely see a negative impact on your stability and handling. Your truck's brakes, which were designed to stop a limited amount of weight, will either take much longer to slow the vehicle down in an emergency or they simply won't work at all.


For me, I am happy knowing that if I need to try and yank a 9000lb vehicle out of a ditch, I won't destroy my JT doing so. Or if I need to tow at GCVR (900lbs loaded truck + 6250lbs trailer) I should be fine and not worry about the extra extra wear because the JT was designed to do more than that

Edit: keeping the GCWR of 12,500lbs is important. That limit, like the axle weight rating, is mechanical and not based on tricks. 12,500-7650+300 = 5150 means your gross vehicle weight needs to be 5150lbs. I think the JT sports are around 4700lbs. So 5150lb of GCVWR left, less 4700 = 450lbs. so you can have that 7650lb trailer and you in the vehicle, that's it. Because 10% of the tongue weight is 765lbs, which is 300lbs over the payload at that point.


Something doesn't add up. Does the GCVWR include a 150lbs driver and 150lb passenger like the test does?


12500 (GCVWR) -6250 (GVWR) = 6250lbs. So 1500lbs payload at best (for simplicity) means 735lbs of payload left with a 7650lb trailer. Looks like it's just the family in the truck. ALL the gear goes in the trailer!
The bigger issue is the trailer just starts pushing the truck around. Corners are not fun as the trailer wants to push you in a straight line. Declines are not fun as the trailer wants to push as fast as gravity will cause and will overload your brakes. Going up hill can be managed with slow speeds, but the other cars will hate you. Anything can be done, but too much trailer will make it a miserable trip.
 

OVRLND_G8R

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Before the JTR I had an 07 Grand Cherokee Overland (with the 5.7 hemi) the tow capacity was around 7500lbs I believe. I hitched up a bobcat and trailer that was roughly 10k lbs. 100 miles round trip and it did awesome (yes had a brake controller added just for this trip lol)

The only mods I had was an OME 2.5 inch lift, HD springs, and 32” tires. I think there is definitely a safety factor built into all cars and their limits. It’s just how risky are you feeling lol I probably would use my JTR to tow a bobcat at roughly 10k lbs if I needed to
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