Electric Wrangler

[TennesseePA]

Any idea how much the batteries in say a Tesla Model S weigh? From what I can find on the internet it is somewhere north of 1000 pounds. I don’t know about you, but I would be uncomfortable trying to swap it out at the filling station. Not to mention for the car stability they put them sort of low in the frame to keep the vehicle from being top heavy... that means you would have to remove everything above the battery to get at it. For most people who are driving more than 250 miles in a day or between charges electric vehicles are stupid. That being said, I have a buddy who has multiple Tesla’s and he plans at least one road trip a year where he plans his route on supercharger stations. He loves his Teslas that much. I still think it is not a way I want to take a trip.

YMMV and IMHO

That is why the first six words in my post were”I know it will never happen.” The vehicles would have to be engineered around the batteries. And everyone would have to agree on what type of battery is best.

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[xpcdoojk]

That is why the first six words in my post were”I know it will never happen.” The vehicles would have to be engineered around the batteries. And everyone would have to agree on what type of battery is best.

Again, the logistics of batteries are not just standardization. The damned things are heavy and nasty things. They are far more dangerous corrosive and anti planet that good old fossil fuels ever were. Heck the planet created fossil fuels. Batteries are chemistry and electricity combined into a stinking nasty mix. Again. The batteries in a Tesla are on the bottom, ie a sled of lead. Changing them is not only hard but inconvenient as heck.

Just saying that batteries are the problem with electric cars that is why electric trains have wires suspended above the tracks to power the electric motors, and not batteries. We are not close to having batteries that are able to bridge where we are now and where we want to be. No matter how cool electric cars are. I have watched almost every Formula E race that has been raced, and I am not against electric cars. The problem was 7 years ago, they ran two cars because the batteries while racing could go max about 30 minutes, battery technology now can drive micro cars to an hour... in another 7 years maybe 90 minutes....My Jeep truck weighs about 3 times those cars.

In my humble opinion electric cars are really cool, but at this point just an interesting thing, not a real thing of the future.

 

[Klutch]

As a data point, I know a woman who drives a Tesla S. She gave me a ride in her Tesla. It has 400 foot pounds of torque available at all four wheels at ZERO RPM. (What off-road person wouldn't want that?) She barely touched the go pedal and I was pinned back in my seat like I was on a roller coaster with inductive launch. She gets over 350 miles from one charge. And she can blow the doors off new Corvettes all day long in her blue 4-door sedan. So, yeah. She can take me for a ride any time!

All the complaints about batteries and the environment are kinda silly. Petroleum has created more pollution to the planet than anything else. So what if it's natural? So is hemlock. Sure, batteries present some environmental challenges, but those challenges can be resolved.

Range is a valid issue with electric vehicles. 350 miles isn't enough for some off-road outings. It would be cool if you could carry your own solar panel that generated enough amps to charge the batteries. That technology will be a ways off.

 

[xpcdoojk]

As a data point, I know a woman who drives a Tesla S. She gave me a ride in her Tesla. It has 400 foot pounds of torque available at all four wheels at ZERO RPM. (What off-road person wouldn't want that?) She barely touched the go pedal and I was pinned back in my seat like I was on a roller coaster with inductive launch. She gets over 350 miles from one charge. And she can blow the doors off new Corvettes all day long in her blue 4-door sedan. So, yeah. She can take me for a ride any time!

All the complaints about batteries and the environment are kinda silly. Petroleum has created more pollution to the planet than anything else. So what if it's natural? So is hemlock. Sure, batteries present some environmental challenges, but those challenges can be resolved.

Range is a valid issue with electric vehicles. 350 miles isn't enough for some off-road outings. It would be cool if you could carry your own solar panel that generated enough amps to charge the batteries. That technology will be a ways off.

I think Tesla’s are cool... just remember what powers most of our electric grid. Good old Dinosaur bones. Coal. Dirtier than refined gasoline by a long shot. Then the stuff that goes into those batteries it is so nasty and dangerous, that words can’t describe, and when the car is done. Where do those batteries go?

Good luck with those brand new battery operated airplanes. Those are going to be awesome.

 

[Klutch]

I think Tesla’s are cool... just remember what powers most of our electric grid. Good old Dinosaur bones. Coal. Dirtier than refined gasoline by a long shot. Then the stuff that goes into those batteries it is so nasty and dangerous, that words can’t describe, and when the car is done. Where do those batteries go?

Good luck with those brand new battery operated airplanes. Those are going to be awesome.

Coal is no longer the primary fuel for electricity. Most power plants have converted to natural gas, but that too a petroleum product; although much cleaner than coal.

Batteries can be recycled.

Electric aircraft are currently in development and have great potential.

Be aware much of the anti-electric-car propaganda comes from petroleum companies. Jut might be some bias there. Research before parroting their message.

 

[xpcdoojk]

Coal is no longer the primary fuel for electricity. Most power plants have converted to natural gas, but that too a petroleum product; although much cleaner than coal.

Batteries can be recycled.

Electric aircraft are currently in development and have great potential.

Be aware much of the anti-electric-car propaganda comes from petroleum companies. Jut might be some bias there. Research before parroting their message.

Whatever brainwashing you have gotten, I feel sorry for it happening to you. Miseducation is a horrible thing we are doing as a society.

The fleet of electric airplanes flying everywhere right now is simply awesome, too bad they are all part of the Martian Air Force.;-)

 

[DreamedofaJeepSomeday]

Coal is no longer the primary fuel for electricity. Most power plants have converted to natural gas, but that too a petroleum product; although much cleaner than coal.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the amount of energy consumed by transportation is huge, and most of it is from fossil fuels today. If we were to switch to mostly electric vehicles (someday), the entire electric generation, transmission, and distribution grid would have to grow accordingly. And that grid uses primarily fossil fuels still. Meaning that for the switch to electric vehicle to be a "green" switch, the entire energy system has to change, not just a portion of it. This is why the switch is likely to take a long time. And includes a lot of R&D, investment, and public policy debates, etc.

 

[jurfie]

I think Tesla’s are cool... just remember what powers most of our electric grid. Good old Dinosaur bones. Coal.

Maybe where you are. Here in BC, 95% of our electricity is hydroelectric.

 

[xpcdoojk]

Maybe where you are. Here in BC, 95% of our electricity is hydroelectric.

We have a lot of hydro here too, but coal is still a giant portion of US electric supply. According to the USEIA 62.7% comes from fossil fuels. Of that most comes from natural gas and coal. Nuclear is about 19% which is the next largest portion of the supply, hydro And wind make up the most of the renewables at about 7% each.

If we could outlaw fossil fuel cars and we could magically make all of our jeep trucks into pure EVs, the amount of additional energy we would need would be massive. If you listen to certain politicians they act like this is what we have to do in order to save the earth. They are stupid and dangerous. Although if we are all confined to our homes for eternity it won’t matter.

 

[jurfie]

We have a lot of hydro here too, but coal is still a giant portion of US electric supply. According to the USEIA 62.7% comes from fossil fuels. Of that most comes from natural gas and coal. Nuclear is about 19% which is the next largest portion of the supply, hydro And wind make up the most of the renewables at about 7% each.

If we could outlaw fossil fuel cars and we could magically make all of our jeep trucks into pure EVs, the amount of additional energy we would need would be massive. If you listen to certain politicians they act like this is what we have to do in order to save the earth. They are stupid and dangerous. Although if we are all confined to our homes for eternity it won’t matter.

As EVs become more common, alternative sources of energy will become available and viable. But that will take a long time, and fossil fuels will continue to be relied upon for the foreseeable future. Fossil fuels aren't going away anytime soon, so the eco-nazis need to get off their high horses and accept that. On the other side, the EV-haters need to accept that EVs work for some people and stop crying about their God-given right to drive gas-powered vehicles and bash EVs' range and spout reasons why they are only for "purse-carrying eunics". EVs are an OPTION for those who choose that option; that's it. They're not going to take away your freedoms.

Life isn't so binary; just because something works for one person, doesn't mean it will work for someone else. Similarly, neither OPTION should be shoved down someone else's throat just because that choice works for them and the other option does not.

I'm so tired of the "my opinion is the right opinion, and if you do not agree you are a [insert derogatory term here]" attitude that seems to be getting more and more prevalent these days. This does not only apply to the FF/EV debate, but every topic in (North) America. Left/Right, Black/White, Democrat/Republican, Liberal/Conservative. J.H.C. people!! Whatever happened to an inclusive, moderate society that respected the opinions of others, even if we don't agree with them?

I can't wait to disappear into the woods and be done with this BS.

 

[5JeepsAz]

great thread..

 

[xpcdoojk]

As EVs become more common, alternative sources of energy will become available and viable. But that will take a long time, and fossil fuels will continue to be relied upon for the foreseeable future. Fossil fuels aren't going away anytime soon, so the eco-nazis need to get off their high horses and accept that. On the other side, the EV-haters need to accept that EVs work for some people and stop crying about their God-given right to drive gas-powered vehicles and bash EVs' range and spout reasons why they are only for "purse-carrying eunics". EVs are an OPTION for those who choose that option; that's it. They're not going to take away your freedoms.

Life isn't so binary; just because something works for one person, doesn't mean it will work for someone else. Similarly, neither OPTION should be shoved down someone else's throat just because that choice works for them and the other option does not.

I'm so tired of the "my opinion is the right opinion, and if you do not agree you are a [insert derogatory term here]" attitude that seems to be getting more and more prevalent these days. This does not only apply to the FF/EV debate, but every topic in (North) America. Left/Right, Black/White, Democrat/Republican, Liberal/Conservative. J.H.C. people!! Whatever happened to an inclusive, moderate society that respected the opinions of others, even if we don't agree with them?

I can't wait to disappear into the woods and be done with this BS.

OK, then there is the real world and the world we wish was real. Living in the real world is hard. Binary decisions rule. In fantasy land... well anything we want can happen. I know we are getting ready to experience an economic disaster. So, in that world. Authoritarians rule. We will if we are not lucky find out what that is all about.

It took the Weimar Republic to give us Hitler.

God knows what COVID19 will deliver unto the world.

 

[jurfie]

OK, then there is the real world and the world we wish was real. Living in the real world is hard. Binary decisions rule. In fantasy land... well anything we want can happen. I know we are getting ready to experience an economic disaster. So, in that world. Authoritarians rule. We will if we are not lucky find out what that is all about.

It took the Weimar Republic to give us Hitler.

God knows what COVID19 will deliver unto the world.

Wow. And I'm out.

 

[Oilburner]

Whatever happened to an inclusive, moderate society that respected the opinions of others, even if we don't agree with them?.

#triggered

 

[scramboleer]

As EVs become more common, alternative sources of energy will become available and viable. But that will take a long time, and fossil fuels will continue to be relied upon for the foreseeable future. Fossil fuels aren't going away anytime soon, so the eco-nazis need to get off their high horses and accept that. On the other side, the EV-haters need to accept that EVs work for some people and stop crying about their God-given right to drive gas-powered vehicles and bash EVs' range and spout reasons why they are only for "purse-carrying eunics". EVs are an OPTION for those who choose that option; that's it. They're not going to take away your freedoms.

Life isn't so binary; just because something works for one person, doesn't mean it will work for someone else. Similarly, neither OPTION should be shoved down someone else's throat just because that choice works for them and the other option does not.

I'm so tired of the "my opinion is the right opinion, and if you do not agree you are a [insert derogatory term here]" attitude that seems to be getting more and more prevalent these days. This does not only apply to the FF/EV debate, but every topic in (North) America. Left/Right, Black/White, Democrat/Republican, Liberal/Conservative. J.H.C. people!! Whatever happened to an inclusive, moderate society that respected the opinions of others, even if we don't agree with them?

I can't wait to disappear into the woods and be done with this BS.

So much this. I work at a non-profit that does research on the electric grid from generation to use (our group looks at EVs and EV charging, big and small), and can only shake my head at a lot of this.

Can't we all get along? In my garage lives a '64 Willys Wagon with stock 230 OHC and a carb, our '82 Scrambler has fuel-injection and the bulk of our everyday miles are done in an electric car (we are looking for our third now with three kids).

And to get back to the early posts on the thread, it doesn't have to be all-electric or nothing. There is a huge role for plug-in hybrids (think 30 miles or so electric range and then "regular" driving on a gas-hybrid powertrain). This is what is coming for the plug-in Wrangler which was supposed to be launched late this year or early next year. Just as week, the head of Jeep also talked about an all-electric Wrangler. Imagine a future where a Wrangler or Gladiator has four engine/motor options: gas, diesel, mild hybrid, and plug-in hybrid, and maybe even full electric. We all will get choices.

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