4500lb max towing with manual trans on Rubi

[Billy]

Just saw that the Rubicon is only rated for 4500lb trailer towing, and only 1200 payload with the 6 speed manual.

Guess it's a good thing I'm holding out for the diesel.

Both 4500 towing and 1200 payload are likely to be fine for me, but why limit myself?

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[ThirtyOne]

Diesel towing will be less than the 3.6 (and of course no manual)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...5880/jeep-gladiator-pickup-diesel-tow-rating/

From the article:

The cooling needs presented a challenge: The 3.o-liter EcoDiesel V6 engine, available on the Gladiator at a later date, will be a powerhouse, cranking out 442 lb-ft of torque. But it won't achieve the full 7650-lb towing capacity of the base Gladiator engine, the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6. Simply put, the turbodiesel's charge-air cooler eats up some of the airflow coming through the grille, slightly reducing the effective cooling area. Towing numbers are still being finalized for the diesel Gladiator, but expect its towing capacity to be about 500 pounds lower than the gasser.

 

[Billy]

Diesel towing will be less than the 3.6 (and of course no manual)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...5880/jeep-gladiator-pickup-diesel-tow-rating/

From the article:

The cooling needs presented a challenge: The 3.o-liter EcoDiesel V6 engine, available on the Gladiator at a later date, will be a powerhouse, cranking out 442 lb-ft of torque. But it won't achieve the full 7650-lb towing capacity of the base Gladiator engine, the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6. Simply put, the turbodiesel's charge-air cooler eats up some of the airflow coming through the grille, slightly reducing the effective cooling area. Towing numbers are still being finalized for the diesel Gladiator, but expect its towing capacity to be about 500 pounds lower than the gasser.

Yeah, but not 3500 lbs lower.

 

[Joe333x]

How about the fact its even less on the manual trans sport. Im still going for a manual but it is disappointing that the manual takes such a big hit.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

I agree this is a bit disappointing. I now have to choose between towing or a manual. I was really looking forward to having both...

But then again, it's still the Jeep Truck we've all been waiting on forever so... yup. Still excited!

 

[eternus]

So you should compare apple to apples though, the Pentastar with auto is 7000lbs on the Rubicon. If you're waiting for the diesel then you're getting an automatic there as well... it will probably? be right around the 7000 lbs again, probably less. They've stated that cooling is an issue in the Diesel with towing. Also, the diesel will weigh more which brings down all capacity numbers accordingly.

Edit: It sounds like the Diesel will be about 500 lbs less in towing capacity, so the JT Rubicon Gladiator w/ Auto & Diesel will have a towing capacity of ~6,500 lbs.

 

[CaliJK]

I agree, I was hoping manual would have higher tow capacity. Do I go with the transmission I want and minimum Towing I need, or the auto I need with the max Towing I want .

But like mentioned above, it's finally a Jeep truck, so can't really complain .I'll be enjoying a cruise with the top down next summer either way, and that makes me a happy customer.

 

[fixbroke]

I'm on the disappointment train with this one too. I was deciding between a ZR2 with dual lockers and a Tacoma TRD Off-Road with a manual and a higher tow rating, then the Gladiator details got leaked and I thought I'd found the best of all worlds!

Does anyone have any guesses on what it is about the manual transmission that limits the towing capacity? Knowing what I know about the SAE tow ratings, I'm having a hard time figuring out why it would be so much worse, assuming every other part of the truck is the same as the auto. Maybe the clutch slips? Maybe the gearbox lube overheats? Either of those can problems can be solved.

For the small amount of towing I may do over the 4500 lb limit of the 6MT Rubi, I'm tempted to get one anyway and just let the transmission suffer the abuse. For the record, my projected tow scenario is a 3000 lb car on a 2000 lb trailer, plus some tools and parts.

 

[Billy]

Does anyone have any guesses on what it is about the manual transmission that limits the towing capacity?

I'm guessing trans cooling.

 

[ThirtyOne]

It is disappointing for those that want a manual. For some, the Gladiator is just a Jeep that can tow! The bed is a bonus.

 

[Gecko-JKU]

Realistically the manual should be able to tow as much as the automatic. It doesn't suffer the heat issues that the automatic does. However I have smoked the clutch trying to pull another jeep out of the mud, so I would guess that the clutch is the weak point over 5000lbs.

 

[CaliJK]

I'm on the disappointment train with this one too. I was deciding between a ZR2 with dual lockers and a Tacoma TRD Off-Road with a manual and a higher tow rating, then the Gladiator details got leaked and I thought I'd found the best of all worlds!

Does anyone have any guesses on what it is about the manual transmission that limits the towing capacity? Knowing what I know about the SAE tow ratings, I'm having a hard time figuring out why it would be so much worse, assuming every other part of the truck is the same as the auto. Maybe the clutch slips? Maybe the gearbox lube overheats? Either of those can problems can be solved.

For the small amount of towing I may do over the 4500 lb limit of the 6MT Rubi, I'm tempted to get one anyway and just let the transmission suffer the abuse. For the record, my projected tow scenario is a 3000 lb car on a 2000 lb trailer, plus some tools and parts.

I thought the same, about just abusing it the odd time .in my case, the majority of Towing would be bales of Hay, 2 bales at a time on a trailer, pushing 4000lbs with the trailer, and a 2 horse trailer with 1 horse, right at around 4500 .it's the odd time I throw a second horse in the trailer that I'd be over 5000.

 

[ThirtyOne]

I thought the same, about just abusing it the odd time .in my case, the majority of Towing would be bales of Hay, 2 bales at a time on a trailer, pushing 4000lbs with the trailer, and a 2 horse trailer with 1 horse, right at around 4500 .it's the odd time I throw a second horse in the trailer that I'd be over 5000.

Just hook a third horse up to winch and let him help you tow.

 

[fixbroke]

Realistically the manual should be able to tow as much as the automatic. It doesn't suffer the heat issues that the automatic does. However I have smoked the clutch trying to pull another jeep out of the mud, so I would guess that the clutch is the weak point over 5000lbs.

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree. Typically, it's the automatics that suffer from heat and not the manuals. It's gotta be the clutch.

Interestingly, however, the Tacoma tow rating doesn't change with the 6MT option. A Ram 2500, on the other hand, loses about 1000 lbs towing capacity by choosing the 6MT.

Assuming that it's the hill starts that murder the clutch, it's interesting to look at the gearing numbers for the JT, the much-better-for-towing Ram 2500, and the somehow-equal-to-an-automatic Tacoma. The JT Rubi apparently gets a 5.13 first gear and a 4.10 diff for a total reduction of 21.03, whereas the Ram 2500 has a 5.94 first and 3.42 rear for a similar 20.31 reduction (but the massive low-RPM torque of the Cummins would certainly reduce the need to slip the clutch on hill starts). The Tacoma has a relatively tall 3.98 first and 4.30 rear, totaling a clutch-murdering 17.11.
(Note that all of these numbers disregard the effect of tire diameter on torque transmitted to the ground, but there isn't a great deal of variation in tire size between these vehicles.)

Since the JT and the Taco both follow the SAE J2807 towing standard, it's strange to see that the JT takes such a hit with the 6MT while the Taco remains unchanged, especially with its unfavourable gearing. Perhaps it has a much more durable clutch, or perhaps Toyota's interpretation of J2807 is different somehow.

For reference, here's the J2807 standard's test structure and requirements:

Aside: kinetic straps for pulling stuck trucks! Save the clutch.

 

[WXman]

I'm on the disappointment train with this one too. I was deciding between a ZR2 with dual lockers and a Tacoma TRD Off-Road with a manual and a higher tow rating, then the Gladiator details got leaked and I thought I'd found the best of all worlds!

Does anyone have any guesses on what it is about the manual transmission that limits the towing capacity? Knowing what I know about the SAE tow ratings, I'm having a hard time figuring out why it would be so much worse, assuming every other part of the truck is the same as the auto. Maybe the clutch slips? Maybe the gearbox lube overheats? Either of those can problems can be solved.

For the small amount of towing I may do over the 4500 lb limit of the 6MT Rubi, I'm tempted to get one anyway and just let the transmission suffer the abuse. For the record, my projected tow scenario is a 3000 lb car on a 2000 lb trailer, plus some tools and parts.

- The manual transmission doesn't have the torque capacity that the ZF automatics do.
- Increasing towing capacity would require a heavier duty clutch, which would require a stronger pressure plate to keep costs down from having to use a twin disc, which in turn would increase pedal feel and wouldn't meet design criteria.
- Emissions rules make it more difficult to certify manual transmissions, which is one of the reasons manufacturers have been happy to discontinue them on most models. We're lucky we even get a manual trans. option at all.
- Since the torque converter in an auto can slip and reduce shock loading with a heavy load attached, it's safer for larger towing capacity from a warranty standpoint.

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