Advice on Minimizing Getting Blown Around by Crosswinds

[Badunit]

For a little background, my thinking on the stabilizer was that the sideways push of a cross wind makes the front wheels turn in that direction. Wind gusts and wind changes are impulses to the steering that could be damped by a stabilizer, just like with bump steer. The key selling point for Roadmaster's Exact Center system is that it keeps the wheels pointed straight and this eliminates/reduces wind-induced steering so it is using basically the same theory of keeping the wheel straight. I am surprised to hear a stiffer stabilizer doesn't reduce gust-induced steering but maybe it takes a lot more damping than a stabilizer can do (or a stabilizer that could do it would dampen the steering so much it wouldn't return to center like it should).

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[ShadowsPapa]

No stabilizer or steering system will counter wind. It's a tire and suspension issue, made worse on taller vehicles because the air going under them tends to lighten them on the road, reducing the force the tire has against the pavement.

Problem is on a windy day, to go straight you have to steer to one side, so you literally have to move the wheels to compensate for tire squirm and flexing. Holding the tires in a true straight line will get you going to the side.
If you are driving on a really windy day, with the wheel tilted, say, to the left a couple of degrees, if you pass a grove of trees or a big hill that blocks the wind, you will find yourself leaving your lane. You straighten the wheels again, steering wheel straight across. Pass the hills or trees and now you are having to account for the slippage of the tires as they flex due to the wind.
Caster plays a roll in this, too, because the pivot point is ahead of the tire, but no stabilizer can compensate for the slippage of the tire and caster effect in a strong wind. If a steering system tries to hold things straight, you go into the ditch or other lane. You must compensate by "turning" to offset the amount of tire slippage in the wind.
Big tires, tall sidewalls make this worse because they can flex more.

Here - tire is pointed straight ahead but the rolling path will be to the right, so you have to steer left and have the steering wheel slanted to the left, moving the tires OFF OF STRAIGHT ahead.

The only way to compensate is stiffer tires, shorter sidewalls, whatever.
There's really no way around it. Just make sure your steering has no play in it.
I've seen some talk of guys changing tires - sizes, brands and so on, making a difference and that makes total sense since it's at least in part a tire related thing.

You can weld that steering so the wheels are totally straight, 100% straight ahead and the vehicle will move to the side!

PS - you should see the 4Runner guys talk of this problem - things like "driving a toaster down the road", comparisons to bricks, buildings and more.

 

[Like-a-virgin]

If you think your 23 with Reds were mushy...man you would have hated the 20-22 foxes. These reds are a TON stiffer then the Foxes I had on my last one.

Uh Oh. I traded a case of Two-Hearts(?) ale for coil and shock Rubi take-offs. I’ll bet you it’s the Foxes. And I love the stiffness I’ve got in a stock JT Sport S suspension. Don’t like mushy! I like to feel pebbles, seriously. Been in a Prius for 10 years, so the complete difference of stiffness of ride is what I like.

 

[Like-a-virgin]

No stabilizer or steering system will counter wind. It's a tire and suspension issue, made worse on taller vehicles because the air going under them tends to lighten them on the road, reducing the force the tire has against the pavement.

Problem is on a windy day, to go straight you have to steer to one side, so you literally have to move the wheels to compensate for tire squirm and flexing. Holding the tires in a true straight line will get you going to the side.
If you are driving on a really windy day, with the wheel tilted, say, to the left a couple of degrees, if you pass a grove of trees or a big hill that blocks the wind, you will find yourself leaving your lane. You straighten the wheels again, steering wheel straight across. Pass the hills or trees and now you are having to account for the slippage of the tires as they flex due to the wind.
Caster plays a roll in this, too, because the pivot point is ahead of the tire, but no stabilizer can compensate for the slippage of the tire and caster effect in a strong wind. If a steering system tries to hold things straight, you go into the ditch or other lane. You must compensate by "turning" to offset the amount of tire slippage in the wind.
Big tires, tall sidewalls make this worse because they can flex more.

Here - tire is pointed straight ahead but the rolling path will be to the right, so you have to steer left and have the steering wheel slanted to the left, moving the tires OFF OF STRAIGHT ahead.

The only way to compensate is stiffer tires, shorter sidewalls, whatever.
There's really no way around it. Just make sure your steering has no play in it.
I've seen some talk of guys changing tires - sizes, brands and so on, making a difference and that makes total sense since it's at least in part a tire related thing.

You can weld that steering so the wheels are totally straight, 100% straight ahead and the vehicle will move to the side!

PS - you should see the 4Runner guys talk of this problem - things like "driving a toaster down the road", comparisons to bricks, buildings and more.

So bottom line is we swerve?

 

[Badunit]

If you think your 23 with Reds were mushy...man you would have hated the 20-22 foxes. These reds are a TON stiffer then the Foxes I had on my last one.

If the reds are a ton stiffer than the 20-22 Foxes, the Jeep Foxes must have been total mush. I thought the reds that came on my '23 were mush. It swayed around like I was driving with a high centered heavy load. I replaced them with non-Jeep-branded Fox 2.0's, which were a lot less mushy but still mushier than than I liked. I am now running the Bilstein 5100's which are not mushy at all but don't have the small bump compliance. I like the idea of progressive (Fox) vs digressive (Bilstein) but the Foxes are too soft on the road for my liking. My use case is on-road far more than off-road. I'm not planning on trying any other brands so it is a choice between the 5100's and Fox 2.0's. I need to hit some washboards and railroad tracks before I decide.

 

[Erievon]

If the reds are a ton stiffer than the 20-22 Foxes, the Jeep Foxes must have been total mush. I thought the reds that came on my '23 were mush. It swayed around like I was driving with a high centered heavy load.

I'm in the minority. I mentioned it for comparison but I actually liked the foxes. (Or maybe I just got a really good set?) I preferred the progressive feel with small bump compliance. The Reds feel like they don't have that, which tells me I would probably hate the Bilsteins. Guess that's why the market exists though, everyone has different wants.

 

[WILDHOBO]

If the reds are a ton stiffer than the 20-22 Foxes, the Jeep Foxes must have been total mush. I thought the reds that came on my '23 were mush. It swayed around like I was driving with a high centered heavy load. I replaced them with non-Jeep-branded Fox 2.0's, which were a lot less mushy but still mushier than than I liked. I am now running the Bilstein 5100's which are not mushy at all but don't have the small bump compliance. I like the idea of progressive (Fox) vs digressive (Bilstein) but the Foxes are too soft on the road for my liking. My use case is on-road far more than off-road. I'm not planning on trying any other brands so it is a choice between the 5100's and Fox 2.0's. I need to hit some washboards and railroad tracks before I decide.

The ‘21 jeep fox 2.0’s were pudding. I had regular fox 2.0’s for 40k miles after them and they were perfectly fine. But I killed them.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I'm in the minority. I mentioned it for comparison but I actually liked the foxes. (Or maybe I just got a really good set?) I preferred the progressive feel with small bump compliance. The Reds feel like they don't have that, which tells me I would probably hate the Bilsteins. Guess that's why the market exists though, everyone has different wants.

Many people love them. My friend has my take offs and loves his truck.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

If you think your 23 with Reds were mushy...man you would have hated the 20-22 foxes. These reds are a TON stiffer then the Foxes I had on my last one.

Truth!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I am now running the Bilstein 5100's which are not mushy at all but don't have the small bump compliance.

That is precisely why I didn't go with digressive shocks or the Bilsteins. Our roads are miles of small bumps. The Eibachs are bad enough - those are "sharp" shocks and you feel every little imperfection on the road. Highway is good, but rural driving and around here, it's a harsh ride. You feel every expansion joint. But the stock Overland shocks on the rear had started to get "bouncy" - the inch or so drop when leaving my garage - the back end would drop down and then bounce 2 or more times - sign of weak shocks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So bottom line is we swerve?

No, we maintain control when outside forces are trying to take that control away.......... think pilot and sheer and whatnot.

I think I mentioned caster as well - this is where more isn't always better. There's a sweet spot for good steering and straight line driving, but you can pass through that and hit excessive numbers where the wind will have more control because you put that pivot point way out in front of the tires - meaning the wind has more leverage or ability to turn them.
The front tires are trailing the pivot point. If that pivot point is way out front, then pushing sideways on the Jeep turns the tires in addition to the normal squirm of the rubber.
If the truck is lifted, wind gets under and can actually take weight off the tires making it worse. Tall sidewalls = more flex. Great for offroad and impressing your peers, not helpful in wind.

But again, our good friends with Toyota 4Runners are facing the same thing - just ask 'em. It's a fairly common complaint with those guys.


Maintain control, react but don't over-react, make sure steering linkage has no slop (on the other hand, with a strong wind the play is already all taken out of the steering linkage so even "loose steering parts" shouldn't come into play in this at all except in gusty, non-steady winds)

 

[Badunit]

...the back end would drop down and then bounce 2 or more times - sign of weak shocks.

That's how the red shocks were. With the Fox 2.0's it still dropped down about as far but it settled out after a single small overshoot then back to ride height. With Bilstein's it doesn't drop down much at allunless the bump is bigger. The Fox front shocks seem okay but the rears are not to my liking. Given they damp well, it could be the rear springs are too soft. My Ram was this same way after installing a leveling kit (with softer rear springs) until I installed airbags (which I wanted anyway). it didn't take much to make it glide over speed bumps without the rear end dipping on the back side.

 

[Gvsukids]

Uh Oh. I traded a case of Two-Hearts(?) ale for coil and shock Rubi take-offs. I’ll bet you it’s the Foxes. And I love the stiffness I’ve got in a stock JT Sport S suspension. Don’t like mushy! I like to feel pebbles, seriously. Been in a Prius for 10 years, so the complete difference of stiffness of ride is what I like.

If the reds are a ton stiffer than the 20-22 Foxes, the Jeep Foxes must have been total mush. I thought the reds that came on my '23 were mush. It swayed around like I was driving with a high centered heavy load. I replaced them with non-Jeep-branded Fox 2.0's, which were a lot less mushy but still mushier than than I liked. I am now running the Bilstein 5100's which are not mushy at all but don't have the small bump compliance. I like the idea of progressive (Fox) vs digressive (Bilstein) but the Foxes are too soft on the road for my liking. My use case is on-road far more than off-road. I'm not planning on trying any other brands so it is a choice between the 5100's and Fox 2.0's. I need to hit some washboards and railroad tracks before I decide.

Adjustable shocks.

https://www.gorancho.com/collections/products-shocks-rs9000xl

 

[obrianmcc]

You're driving a brick ... someone farts on the sidewalk and you're going to feel it. Throw on a topper and it's amplified probably x3. I'm shocked these things get the MPG's that they do given the complete absence of any aerodynamics.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You're driving a brick ... someone farts on the sidewalk and you're going to feel it. Throw on a topper and it's amplified probably x3. I'm shocked these things get the MPG's that they do given the complete absence of any aerodynamics.

I have images and numbers showing they really are more aerodynamic than a cow. Must be their lack of hair??

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