After market brake controller ... does it need a flash?

[danielspivey]

So here’s my situation... I had some issues with my new travel trailers brakes. Finally the RV dealer is getting it fixed, but they are saying it was probably because I didn’t get the gladiator “flashed” when I installed the brake controller. The RV dealer said they always have to send Jeeps back to get them flashed. Is this true?

The background:

Flash back 3 months ago I installed the Redarc pro elite. I called my Jeep dealer and they said it was plug in play, the Jeep would know it’s hooked up with no additional programming. Install was simple.... as they said, plug and play, worked flawless. I Immediately towed my big Tex trailer, worked great and always has, in manual and auto mode.

I had my RV delivered. RV market right now is HOT. A dealer in GA is the only one that had the model I wanted, msrp was 32.5k, I got it out the Door, shipped from GA for 25.5k. As soon as I hooked it up, the Redarc was throwing errors. Hooked it up to the bigtex with electric brakes, worked flawless. Back to TT...errors. Called Redarc service, guys were awesome ... they are in Australia, accent and everything, super nice and knowledgeable. Walked me through checking the Jeep and brake controller. Everything worked like it should... they said it has to be a short in the TT wiring.

Finally got it into the RV dealer service here , evidentially some of the wires were fried, and the safety brake seized. The service manager said it’s most like because I didn’t have the gladiator flashed. I told him my big text works fine and he said but they are different because the travel trailer has a battery with the wiring that needs to be charged while towing.


I called my local dealer that I bought that Jeep from, one of the service advisors said it didn’t need to be flashed, then he asked one of that senior techs, he said it did. I then asked to talked to the senior tech and asked him if he had flashed a gladiator. He said he hadn’t yet, but would look it up to confirm. He looked it up... nothing about a flash for gladiator, just plug and play. He said well, you do in my 2020 ram, but evidentally not in a gladiator. The uncertainty scares me....

Has anyone had theirs flashed after a brake trailer install? Anyone with a Redarc pro elite tow a travel trailer with electric brakes and a battery system?

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[Alaska-HWY JK]

Any aftermarket brake controller is fully independent of Chrysler’s voodoo and witchcraft. I have the Curt harness with the diode spliced to an old Reese controller from my 99 2500 Sport and it works fine. Our trailer is 4500 lbs loaded.

 

[Phljeeper]

Agreed. The RV shop isn’t correct. There is no flash needed. The aftermarket brake controller should work. I have a Curt controller and it works fine. The issue may be the diode needed to block the feedback the controller gets from the truck computer (or maybe the other way around). Either way there are write ups about adding the diode.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The diode is to prevent feedback into the Jeep system - won't impact the connected trailer at all.
All the controller does is feed power to the camper/trailer brakes - more voltage means the solenoids pull the shoes harder against the drum. Less power means the solenoids aren't activated as strongly.
The diode there or not can't impact the trailer's brake systems in any way at all.

The break-away battery is charged from the 12v supply through the connector in the back, nothing to do with controller at all.
The brake lights on the trailer are fed through the vehicle's brake lights.

So unless the controller was feeding over 16 volts back to the trailer brakes, it's not responsible.

No flash is needed - these are pre-wired with the connector ready to work. Not even sure what a flash would change at all. Flash it for what?

 

[danielspivey]

The diode is to prevent feedback into the Jeep system - won't impact the connected trailer at all.
All the controller does is feed power to the camper/trailer brakes - more voltage means the solenoids pull the shoes harder against the drum. Less power means the solenoids aren't activated as strongly.
The diode there or not can't impact the trailer's brake systems in any way at all.

The break-away battery is charged from the 12v supply through the connector in the back, nothing to do with controller at all.
The brake lights on the trailer are fed through the vehicle's brake lights.

So unless the controller was feeding over 16 volts back to the trailer brakes, it's not responsible.

No flash is needed - these are pre-wired with the connector ready to work. Not even sure what a flash would change at all. Flash it for what?

so I’m confused about the diode, if it doesn’t affect the trailer, what is it’s purpose ? What Would feedback into the Jeep system do?

The RV dealer said he thought it needed a flash to make it work properly... which evidentially isn’t true per the dealer. However, the dealer did say this flash IS needed on dodge rams after a brake controller is added...?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

so I’m confused about the diode, if it doesn’t affect the trailer, what is it’s purpose ? What Would feedback into the Jeep system do?

The RV dealer said he thought it needed a flash to make it work properly... which evidentially isn’t true per the dealer. However, the dealer did say this flash IS needed on dodge rams after a brake controller is added...?

Diode prevents feedback into the CANbus system (Communication Area Network).
Nothing to do with the wires going out the back of the truck to the trailer. Modern electrical systems are very sensitive to ripple, surge, spikes, under and over-voltages, and more.
The controller is tied into the Jeeps power systems AND the trailer brakes.
We could get really deep if I had the exact JT wiring diagrams.
A brake controller has two systems - that which sends output to the brake solenoids and that which takes power from the Jeep for operation and I assume the brake lights, which are on the bus.
The diode is only in the section of the controller that connects to power and the bus.
Some vehicles have this in place in their wiring so it's not needed in the controller harness - Jeep didn't put it in the vehicle wiring so it has to be in the controller harness.

 

[brianinca]

The trailer is borked, not the Jeep. I've towed several different cargo trailers I borrowed from work over the last month. I use a Curt Bluetooth controller. Yes there is significant voltage going to the trailer brakes, no the Jeep has no idea beyond the controller is pulling power.

The Dodge trucks need a flash for their INTEGRATED brake controllers. Irrelevant to us, since the factory doesn't see fit to give us even an OPTION for that in our Gladiators.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The trailer is borked, not the Jeep. I've towed several different cargo trailers I borrowed from work over the last month. I use a Curt Bluetooth controller. Yes there is significant voltage going to the trailer brakes, no the Jeep has no idea beyond the controller is pulling power.

The Dodge trucks need a flash for their INTEGRATED brake controllers. Irrelevant to us, since the factory doesn't see fit to give us even an OPTION for that in our Gladiators.

Exactly. There's no reason for a flash since these are after-market and not integrated into the screens nor controlled by them.
Blaming the truck for the trailer's failure is bunk.
The RV person is like most others - they sell, they support to a point, but they really don't have a clue how controllers even work. Just ask them how the brakes are activated, what makes them work, and watch them stutter and make things up.
They don't know.
Voltage going to the brakes on the trailer cannot exceed the tow vehicles system voltage - not possible. If the charging system is putting out 14 volts that's the max that can go back there - and trailer brakes are rated for more than that at the top end.
They call things "12 volt" but that's not technically correct.
A fully charged battery sits at 12.6 after the surface charge is removed.
The charging system in most "12 volt systems" will run from 13.8 to roughly 14.2 as that's what it takes to keep the battery up, or recharge it after a start. So all automotive accessories have to be able to operate on roughly 14 volts.
The contoller normally sends less - otherwise you have trailer brake lock-up, but those solenoids will easily handle 14 volts - up to 16 volts would be my bet. It might lock the brakes but it won't fry them. Those coils are heavier than the old AC compressor magnetic coils of years ago.
RV people sell product, and usually only know specs such as how big is the tank, how many beds, the cubic feet of the refrigerator, and the square feet of the camper's floor plan. I have yet to meet one that knows more.
And then it's scary to walk into a dealership shop and know more than the people working there - but that's what's happened to me for years. I've only met two sales people that knew the product they sold, and one of them is a forum member.

Your first sentence says it all. It's the trailer not the tow vehicle. Unless that JT puts out hellish voltage due to an extreme over-charge, it can't fry brakes. Even then, that sort of power would mean the trailer wouldn't move due to locked brakes.

 

[Riccochet]

Aftermarket brake controllers are plug and play, with a proper harness adapter, on every vehicle. No flash needed. So long as there is factory wiring for a brake controller.

The only time a flash is needed is if you are adding an OEM ITBC to a vehicle that didn't have one. So that it functions with the EVIC.

 

[eaglerugby04]

I think the dealer is full of crap. My Redarc has been awesome, no flashing or anything needed. Have a travel trailer and landscape trailer no issues.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think the dealer is full of crap. My Redarc has been awesome, no flashing or anything needed. Have a travel trailer and landscape trailer no issues.

I'm taking your word for it (ok, and others, too) and ordering one this week......
I knew no flash was needed - heck, I've had brake controllers on our Grand Cherokees, among other vehicles. They are stand-alone for the most part, only taking power to operate and feeding power to the brakes when needed.
Pretty sad when that's the sort of dealers and sales people out there these days.
I'll never forget when I was in a store years ago that sold computers. I was already working in IT setting up and configuring systems as a contractor at that time. The sales person walked up to help a customer - and I use the word "help" loosely.
The sales guy was telling about the tape backup system that computer had. The customer asked why it had that, why would he want it. I thought - ok, this will be fun, I'm sticking around for this.
Well, you might want a copy - what for? In case you want another copy. Again - customer askes why he'd need another copy. Oh that sales guy started making up all sorts of stuff and I had to leave as I was having trouble controlling the urge to laugh.
I could have been nice and stepped in and suggested a backup is good in case the drive ever failed or they accidentally deleted something....... but no, I let the sales guy struggle.

 

[eaglerugby04]

I'm taking your word for it (ok, and others, too) and ordering one this week......
I knew no flash was needed - heck, I've had brake controllers on our Grand Cherokees, among other vehicles. They are stand-alone for the most part, only taking power to operate and feeding power to the brakes when needed.
Pretty sad when that's the sort of dealers and sales people out there these days.
I'll never forget when I was in a store years ago that sold computers. I was already working in IT setting up and configuring systems as a contractor at that time. The sales person walked up to help a customer - and I use the word "help" loosely.
The sales guy was telling about the tape backup system that computer had. The customer asked why it had that, why would he want it. I thought - ok, this will be fun, I'm sticking around for this.
Well, you might want a copy - what for? In case you want another copy. Again - customer askes why he'd need another copy. Oh that sales guy started making up all sorts of stuff and I had to leave as I was having trouble controlling the urge to laugh.
I could have been nice and stepped in and suggested a backup is good in case the drive ever failed or they accidentally deleted something....... but no, I let the sales guy struggle.

It really is sad the crap they pull. My parents are now old enough I have to pretty much approve everything that has been proposed to them, and self diagnose issues before they go to the dealer. Otherwise the dealer pulls crap like "i need to see it first". Im like the system reported this exact issue I am going to need the exact quote. They eventually give it.

Your story about the tape backups is hilarious, I can totally picture that happening. Working in security I have had to bite my tongue so many times, but it is so worth it to watch a sales person burry themselves.

Hardest part of the install is honestly figuring where you want to mount it. Had I taken my 12volt plug I would not be able to run the camera system on the camper.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are 4 wires involved with an after-market controller.
12v power TO the controller (+)
Ground to chassis (-)
Output to trailer brakes from controller (*I assume direct to the rear, don't pass go, don't collect $200)
Brake light signal (red wire in the case of the REDARC - tells the REDARD the brakes are applied, and if it didn't mess up the CANbus, would tell the truck to light up the trailer brakes as the controller is applying them - that's where the diode comes in - that signal does mess up things in the truck so you block that signal goind out to the truck)

There's nothing there to interact with any after-market controller.
Perhaps with the vaporware MOPAR JT brake controller there will be another for input TO the conroller to send it configuration info -but until that meteor hits earth and destroys it, there'sno there there.

I ran into another "I know more about your job than you do" a while back. Contractor hired to re-do our bathroom because I was too busy and with my back, it was just more than I wanted to take on.
The fellow ran into trouble sweating copper pipe fittings - and I made some suggestions on how to succeed - he had spent an hour trying to stop his leak but after I told him how to resolve his problem, it was done in 5 minutes.
Installing the shower control - I had to explain how the auto temp sense of the new control worked, then he couldn't figure out the bezel and shower heat pipe - and I had to explain that to him. In the end I had several hours in the project........ and I finished the bedroom floor for him as he wasn't sure how to do oak manufactured flooring or how to reverse directions to go into the closets. I showed him how to make a tongue to slip into the groove of one and then do them groove-to-groove to reverse course direction so you could nail properly through the tongues. I showed him how to finish the edge of the room and other stuff.
He deducted several hours of time in the end LOL

 

[GotGladiator]

Aftermarket brake controllers are plug and play, with a proper harness adapter, on every vehicle. No flash needed. So long as there is factory wiring for a brake controller.

The only time a flash is needed is if you are adding an OEM ITBC to a vehicle that didn't have one. So that it functions with the EVIC.

Newbie here. I have attached a picture of the factory connector(?)under the dash to the left of the brake pedal. Is this the brake controller connector? I have a 2021 basic sport with Max Tow pkg and I would like to install my old Tekonsha brake controller and partner it with a Tekonsha 3073-P harness adapter. I'm hoping this would work without issues as I do not want to spend $200 for the Curt C51180. Thanks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Newbie here. I have attached a picture of the factory connector(?)under the dash to the left of the brake pedal. Is this the brake controller connector? I have a 2021 basic sport with Max Tow pkg and I would like to install my old Tekonsha brake controller and partner it with a Tekonsha 3073-P harness adapter. I'm hoping this would work without issues as I do not want to spend $200 for the Curt C51180. Thanks.

That's the one - and you won't need a flash with a 2021 model year or even a 2020 built after about January 8, 2020.
You should be fine.

The flash was only to take care of a problem with early 2020 model year JTs.
It's not to make anything work otherwise.
2021, simply make your connections, you are good to go.

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