After market vendors who fail!

uplandgunner

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I got my JTR June 1st, I'm a patient guy and I know vendors are rushing to create products for our JT's. Two things I need and want, under armor and a rack system for the bed.

A good number of racks coming out. I kind of like JCR Offroad's Gladiator rack.
https://www.jcroffroad.com/product/JTBR.html

Their website lacks some pertinent info and I contacted them. First in regards to weight load.
Just about every other vendor with a rack has weight load stats. Static weight load , Hwy weight load and trail weight load.

"Jeep rates their Trail Rails at a maximum vertical static load capacity of 250 lbs. per rail side. Our rack is stronger than that, as much of the load is carried on the bed rail tops, but we recommend staying inside Jeeps specifications. We don't list the load capacity of our rack because that number doesn't do much good as the bed and bed attachment system is the limitation of that.

We'd love to have a real number above the 250 per side, but the load capacity of the bed and bed rails isn't public information, so we can't do the analysis on it."

This is bullshit, just passing the buck on to Jeep in regards to liability. Obvious they carry minimal liability insurance on their designs IMO.

OK I can live with that. So their rack comes pretty close to what I'm looking for but I want to do some things they haven't thought of. For my needs I want an extra side rail so I can mount one very low and one high to use as anchor points for stuff I want to attach. The same goes for the lateral bracing rail on the top. Instead of two I would like 4 . The holes are located there already and anyone can figure that using two more even makes the rack stronger.

I'm leaning to buy this rack. I reach out to them and ask if extra side on top rails can be added to the rack purchase and their reply is
Brian,

"We do not sell the cross bars individually for our bed racks.

Was there anything else that I could help you with? "

So I'm thinking they think I just want to buy the rails without the rack. I re-ask my question clarifying this that I want to buy the rack with extra rails and get this answer

"Sorry to hear that, but we do not offer the option to add additional cross bars to our bed racks.

If there is anything else that I can help with please do not hesitate to ask!"

Why? This seems really dumb. What if I have a trail mishap and bent a rail? I'm supposed to buy a whole new rack instead of getting a new rail to fix it?

I'm sorry JCR, but this makes me very wary of any of your products. And even if your products are very good why would I buy a product that I can't get a replacement part? Your business model lacks hindsight and you are shooting yourself in the foot.



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MonkeySkunks

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Liability wise they would be crazy to recommend that you carry anything more than the system it mounts to is allowed to carry. If it brakes and something happens Jeep will say 500# and point you at them.

As far as selling additional parts I assume it's all accounted for, a new product and they don't want to start breaking kits apart without seeing the full profit of a kit. Once they get some returns or have extra stock or you're an existing customer they might change their tune. Most products I'm fairly surprised when I call and am able to get an individual replacement part.

Not saying you're wrong but I completely understand their side of it.
 

Oscar Indy

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Bad mouthing forum sponsors because you dont like the answer that is the best answer.
Real classy.
 

Hootbro

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Not every business is looking to satisfy every unique customer. Reminds me of a epic thread I read years back on another forum of a guy having a meltdown because a vendor would not sell him one side of a step rail to replace one he damaged. The vendor was only setup to sell in pairs.
 

steffen707

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Not every business is looking to satisfy every unique customer. Reminds me of a epic thread I read years back on another forum of a guy having a meltdown because a vendor would not sell him one side of a step rail to replace one he damaged. The vendor was only setup to sell in pairs.
wait, so if you buy a pair or rock rails. You mess one up on a rock, (as is expected) and the manufacturer won't sell you a replacement? Even with a proof of original purchase? .....................................I understand a Vendor not selling you one, but the manufacturer should honor a half purchase of a full set.

I should probably contact my rockrail manufacturer before I buy em. Don't want to be stuck buying 2 new ones. I mean I like spares and all, the Oregon Trail taught me well, but........
Broken-Wagon-Axle-on-The-Oregon-Trail.jpg
 

Hootbro

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wait, so if you buy a pair or rock rails. You mess one up on a rock, (as is expected) and the manufacturer won't sell you a replacement? Even with a proof of original purchase? .....................................I understand a Vendor not selling you one, but the manufacturer should honor a half purchase of a full set.

I should probably contact my rockrail manufacturer before I buy em. Don't want to be stuck buying 2 new ones. I mean I like spares and all, the Oregon Trail taught me well, but........
Broken-Wagon-Axle-on-The-Oregon-Trail.jpg
I am going off memory but from what I recall, it was N-FAB that the guy was dealing with. Their explanation was that their business model was to manufacture and ship in pairs and not keep spares or split pair sets and then they are warehousing incomplete sets with no estimate when the other side would be sold. Even for warranty purposes, N-FAB requires the complete pair set returned.

I think companies like N-FAB and others, have their stuff manufacture either in Mexico or Asia for a lot of their items and it is shipped to them for distribution in pair sets. Other companies like JCR or EVO manufacturing that actually build in the USA, I would imagine have more flexibility on one off replacements but as you mentioned, it would behoove of people to find that out beforehand and not assume.
 

JcrOffroad

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If we told you that the rack can carry 1,000lbs but your bed just crushed in half because it was only designed for 500lbs, how was that 1,000lb number good information? We carry an insanely expensive liability policy, but part of actually staying insurable is not making dumb claims that put people's property or well being in danger. Jeep stopped releasing CAD files of vehicle structures to the aftermarket because they want to be the only company that offers aftermarket Jeep parts. So even with dimensional drawings of the bed that we create here, we don't know exact material or construction specifics, so we can't do stress analysis on it. Jeep says 250lbs (dynamic) per rail. We know that we are adding rigidity by tieing both rails together with the rack, plus our rack rests on the bed rails. There is strength added in our design, but we can't quantify it to any degree of certainty. Jeep doesn't state the static load rating, but I can tell you it's higher than 250lbs. So a RTT, two people, and a dog at the campsite is going to be fine. Most of your vehicle load ratings are for dynamic load, and there is always a safety factor.

On selling just the sidebars. We currently don't have pricing data on individual parts nor do we stock a surplus of them. If we needed a warranty part we would send it through production and hold its hand through the process, but we don't really need pricing data to do that. In the future we may have these parts available, but right now we do not.

We hope this helps clarify.

Speaking as one of the owners of JCR: That our business model, "lacks hindsight and you are shooting yourself in the foot." I'm sorry that you feel that way. Sometimes we can't align with every customer's needs and that's fine. That is why there are other choices in the industry. I think it's unfair to say that we "failed you" in some way because we didn't meet your every need. But you are free to feel however you choose. I will say that for every decision that seems cut and dry, or a simple thing to change; there are 1,000 other reasons behind the scenes that support that choice.

Feel free to message me with any other questions.
~Daryl
 
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B345T

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If we told you that the rack can carry 1,000lbs but your bed just crushed in half because it was only designed for 500lbs, how was that 1,000lb number good information? We carry an insanely expensive liability policy, but part of actually staying insurable is not making dumb claims that put people's property or well being in danger. Jeep stopped releasing CAD files of vehicle structures to the aftermarket because they want to be the only company that offers aftermarket Jeep parts. So even with dimensional drawings of the bed that we create here, we don't know exact material or construction specifics, so we can't do stress analysis on it. Jeep says 250lbs (dynamic) per rail. We know that we are adding rigidity by tieing both rails together with the rack, plus our rack rests on the bed rails. There is strength added in our design, but we can't quantify it to any degree of certainty. Jeep doesn't state the static load rating, but I can tell you it's higher than 250lbs. So a RTT, two people, and a dog at the campsite is going to be fine. Most of your vehicle load ratings are for dynamic load, and there is always a safety factor.

On selling just the sidebars. We currently don't have pricing data on individual parts nor do we stock a surplus of them. If we needed a warranty part we would send it through production and hold it's hand through the process, but we don't really need pricing data to do that. In the future we may have these parts available, but right now we do not.

We hope this helps clarify.

Speaking as one of the owners of JCR: That our business model, "lacks hindsight and you are shooting yourself in the foot." I'm sorry that you feel that way. Sometimes we can't align with every customer's needs and that's fine. That is why there are other choices in the industry. I think it's unfair to say that we "failed you" in some way because we didn't meet your every need. But you are free to feel however you choose. I will say that for every decision that seems cut and dry, or a simple thing to change; there are 1,000 other reasons behind the scenes that support that choice.

Feel free to message me with any other questions.
~Daryl

Well stated and welcome to the me too generation...

I have found that the vendors is the producer and as a final end user it is up to me for the decision on spending my hard earned $$ on a product or not...

If the vendor cannot meet my wants and needs I move on...
 

Sgt Beavis

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If we told you that the rack can carry 1,000lbs but your bed just crushed in half because it was only designed for 500lbs, how was that 1,000lb number good information? We carry an insanely expensive liability policy, but part of actually staying insurable is not making dumb claims that put people's property or well being in danger. Jeep stopped releasing CAD files of vehicle structures to the aftermarket because they want to be the only company that offers aftermarket Jeep parts. So even with dimensional drawings of the bed that we create here, we don't know exact material or construction specifics, so we can't do stress analysis on it. Jeep says 250lbs (dynamic) per rail. We know that we are adding rigidity by tieing both rails together with the rack, plus our rack rests on the bed rails. There is strength added in our design, but we can't quantify it to any degree of certainty. Jeep doesn't state the static load rating, but I can tell you it's higher than 250lbs. So a RTT, two people, and a dog at the campsite is going to be fine. Most of your vehicle load ratings are for dynamic load, and there is always a safety factor.

On selling just the sidebars. We currently don't have pricing data on individual parts nor do we stock a surplus of them. If we needed a warranty part we would send it through production and hold its hand through the process, but we don't really need pricing data to do that. In the future we may have these parts available, but right now we do not.

We hope this helps clarify.

Speaking as one of the owners of JCR: That our business model, "lacks hindsight and you are shooting yourself in the foot." I'm sorry that you feel that way. Sometimes we can't align with every customer's needs and that's fine. That is why there are other choices in the industry. I think it's unfair to say that we "failed you" in some way because we didn't meet your every need. But you are free to feel however you choose. I will say that for every decision that seems cut and dry, or a simple thing to change; there are 1,000 other reasons behind the scenes that support that choice.

Feel free to message me with any other questions.
~Daryl
GTFO with all that common sense and engineering stuff. ;)
 
OP
uplandgunner

uplandgunner

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If we told you that the rack can carry 1,000lbs but your bed just crushed in half because it was only designed for 500lbs, how was that 1,000lb number good information? We carry an insanely expensive liability policy, but part of actually staying insurable is not making dumb claims that put people's property or well being in danger. Jeep stopped releasing CAD files of vehicle structures to the aftermarket because they want to be the only company that offers aftermarket Jeep parts. So even with dimensional drawings of the bed that we create here, we don't know exact material or construction specifics, so we can't do stress analysis on it. Jeep says 250lbs (dynamic) per rail. We know that we are adding rigidity by tieing both rails together with the rack, plus our rack rests on the bed rails. There is strength added in our design, but we can't quantify it to any degree of certainty. Jeep doesn't state the static load rating, but I can tell you it's higher than 250lbs. So a RTT, two people, and a dog at the campsite is going to be fine. Most of your vehicle load ratings are for dynamic load, and there is always a safety factor.

On selling just the sidebars. We currently don't have pricing data on individual parts nor do we stock a surplus of them. If we needed a warranty part we would send it through production and hold its hand through the process, but we don't really need pricing data to do that. In the future we may have these parts available, but right now we do not.

We hope this helps clarify.

Speaking as one of the owners of JCR: That our business model, "lacks hindsight and you are shooting yourself in the foot." I'm sorry that you feel that way. Sometimes we can't align with every customer's needs and that's fine. That is why there are other choices in the industry. I think it's unfair to say that we "failed you" in some way because we didn't meet your every need. But you are free to feel however you choose. I will say that for every decision that seems cut and dry, or a simple thing to change; there are 1,000 other reasons behind the scenes that support that choice.

Feel free to message me with any other questions.
~Daryl
I haven't checked back in awhile to my OP. I like the product, it's beefier in some specs to the other available, Some real data instead of lawyer liability speak would go a long ways. It's not a wild jump to take what you have and place it on the ground and load it till it fails. That would give you a static load even without taking in to account for the added strength of the JT's bed walls.

On the other aspect of being able to get extra side and upper rails. Your statement leads one to believe they will never be available as extras to purchase.

If you are simply not willing to offer them right now because of demand for the original product fine, you could say they will be available at a future time and I would be more likely to buy your product knowing I can get them in the future.

I get the sense you are a young company and probably don't know how to deal with these inquiries and if that is the case, you need to bring it up in management meetings and possibly hire more help in regards to customer relations. This is why I gave you a big vendor fail. I've been in the manufacturing business for about 40 years now retired.
 

Gren71

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:punch::angry:

*grabs popcorn*

well this got interesting
 

JcrOffroad

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I haven't checked back in awhile to my OP. I like the product, it's beefier in some specs to the other available, Some real data instead of lawyer liability speak would go a long ways. It's not a wild jump to take what you have and place it on the ground and load it till it fails. That would give you a static load even without taking in to account for the added strength of the JT's bed walls.

I get the sense you are a young company and probably don't know how to deal with these inquiries and if that is the case, you need to bring it up in management meetings and possibly hire more help in regards to customer relations. This is why I gave you a big vendor fail. I've been in the manufacturing business for about 40 years now retired.
We celebrated our 17 year anniversary this year.

Again on the rack, we're unwilling to lose everything in a negligence lawsuit when we pretend that setting a rack on the ground and loading it until failure has any relevance to how it performs mounted to a truck bed bouncing down the trail. Beyond that, we've got the tools to do actual stress analysis on the rack model.

On the other hand, we are no strangers to doing "real science" here :CWL:

May we ask what you are trying to load on this rack?
 
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rvillano8188

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I actually agree with part both sides of this discussion. I see why OP is upset, but I think it was childish to come on a forum and blast JCR, so I'll side with JCR on this basis alone. Maybe(Key word) the employee could've done more to come up with a solution with prospective customers, but that doesn't mean JCR needs to hire more customer relations help. You could've PM'd them and worked it out behind closed doors.
The other thing is that assuming OP has been in manufacturing for 40 years, I'm going to venture to say they didn't own their own business and was nothing more than a manufacturing employee, otherwise they would've understood the brevity in how something like this being put on the internet could negatively impact a business and the owner's livelihood.
 

                           
























































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