Are most Overlanding rigs overweight?

[Kch]

As the title suggests I'm concerned about weight on my Gladiator. I have been reading the forum, as well as searching the internet for information. I've been building cars for over forty years. I also raced in the Viper Challenge Series so I know my way around a car. But this is my first foray into Jeeps.
I've seen lots of Overland builds that I like. Especially the ones from SEMA, but I just don't see how they can not be overweight. I have a JTR that i'm building into an overlanding rig. I plan on actually doing extended back county travel, but have no interest in rock crawling. I am an ER Doc. so I am trained to always think the worst. This has led me to start my build with safety and recovery in mind first. I installed a Fab Four Matrix front bumper with a 10K Smittybuilt waterproof winch. For the rear I installed a Road Armor Stealth bumper with a Warn 8000MS winch. Both winches have synthetic rope and wireless remotes.
Both winches and bumpers weigh 400 pounds total. My bride and I weight 335 combined. The door sticker says cargo and passenger weight should not exceed 1221 pounds. That leaves 486 pounds to further outfit the truck and add provisions for trips.Two five gallon Jerry cans full of extra fuel way 80 pounds. Ten Gallons of water weighs 84 pounds. Recovery gear will be at least 100 pounds. I'd like to carry an extra spare so that adds another 90 pounds.
That leaves 132 pounds for a rack,tent,gear,provisions etc. How is it possible that all of these awesome rigs I'm seeing are not overweight?

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[PyrPatriot]

I came to the same conclusion. That is why I got the Sport Max Tow: 1550lb payload meant 350lbs more weight capacity than the Rubicons on the lot. Decrease by 50lbs for the running boards (not rock crawling so no need for rock rails), still 300lbs more, and I can always add rear lockers for 30lbs, so 270lbs more than the Rubicon.

Mopar steel bumper and Smittybilt winch: 160lbs
Rear winch, hitch cradle, and connectors: 110lbs
270lbs for winches
I would thus still have 1200lbs for gear and occupants: the full payload of a Rubicon

Max Modular AL 14” rack: 42lbs
Front Runner RTT: 93lbs
Straps, ropes, d-rings, hooks, chains, air compressor: 50lbs

Say a 10 day trip for the wife and I, going up to 100mi into the wilderness
3 x 5gal gas tanks (150mi of off road miles, worst case scenario if we need to get back): 120
20gal water: 165
30lbs of food (steaks and potatoes get heavy)
100lbs for fridge, cooking stove, heating fule

600lbs there. We’re at half the Rubicon’s payload left and we’re almost done

That leaves 600lbs for the wife and I, guns, ammo, clothes, sleeping gear, radio, batteries, etc.

or screw the winches, if I am traveling on fairly good trails, a come-along and ground anchor should be just fine. Put that 270lbs of bumber cradle and winches towards a Fab Four rack and extension and be able to carry more stuff easily, I hate obstructing the rear view mirror at all, and that would allow me to store everything below the bed line and on the rack/roof.

My arithmetic could be off.

 

[smlobx]

Kch welcome to the addiction.

You are right to be concerned with being overweight and I would start by asking you where are you planning on going and with whom?

I have had the pleasure of overlanding in some pretty remote places in this world and not stressing the vehicle is one of the keys to ensuring that the truck gets you back home. Another point that we adhere to is the more remote the destination the more important it is to have other people with you and to that end I have never seen a rig with two winches. In fact I am not planning on installing any winches on my rig as I’m not going to do any rock crawling. That’s not to say I won’t get stuck but if you’re traveling with other people there are better ways to get unstuck in most situations.

Like you I bought a Rubicon as I felt it was just about perfectly set up as you can get out of the showroom. I’m going to ad an Alu-Cab canopy, a rtt, a drawer set and a fridge and water tank and that’s about it except for personal items. I hope to be under my gvwr.

Travel light. Travel far. Travel safe.

 

[velogeek]

I really like the idea of that rear bumper but I really want something with more side protection since I only have a Sport. It's also surprisingly heavy but I guess that's part of having a winch tray out back.

To answer the question, keep in mind that overlanding is a trend now and if you think of it as people accessorizing a vehicle instead of buying functional equipment to spend 18 days in the outback, it makes a lot more sense. Most of these vehicles are just chasing fire roads at most so they're not being super stressed.

Just build smart and keep it light. There's no reason to bomb-proof everything at the expense of being overweight and stressing those components you can't improve without major work. When something like that does break, spend the extra for quality, rinse, and repeat.

 

[steelponycowboy]

I don't think the issue is going to be nearly as critical on the Gladiator as it is on Wranglers.

Both of my Overland Built JKs (1 Sahara, 1 Rubicon) weigh in at 6700lbs, Standard springs that come with lift kits cannot compensate for all the gear, supplies, fuel and roof top tent on a 4dr Wrangler. I went to TeraFlex Outback springs which helped but to keep the Jeeps from sagging like an old Wagoneer in the rear, I had to install air bags. I wondered if this was out of the ordinary and found out that several members of my overland Jeep club (JeepExpeditions.org) said they've had their Jeeps weighed when loaded for a week long adventure and they also tipped the scales at over 6000lbs.

So yes, if you are overlanding and hit the road for 5, 8, 14 day or longer trips like my club does, your gear will add a "ton" of extra weight that stock and most aftermarket suspensions were built for in a 4 door Wrangler. However with the Max Tow option your Gladiator is more than capable of dealing with the weight of an overland build.

Hopefully later this year when I can order a Mojave Diesel Gladiator, I can post pictures of my build here.

My Rubicon Overland Build (was at SEMA 2018 in the South Hall) along the border fence with Mexico on a 160 mile overland trip in February.

 

[PyrPatriot]

However with the Max Tow option your Gladiator is more than capable of dealing with the weight of an overland build.

Except that the GVWR is 6250lbs and as you pointed out your rig, with less space, was over 500lbs above that. There have been plenty of posts here showing the JT rocking 2000lbs in the bed, so let’s say it can do that, on pavement. Idk how it would wreck components, if at all, off-road. You also said that your guys’ JKs were at the 6000-6700 GVW on the scales. If I recall correctly the JKs had Dana 30 axles and not that great of a stock suspension. So if overloaded your Wranglers were at the Gladiator’s level (on paper), then how much would you, as an experienced overlander, go for payload on a JT off-road overlanding?

 

[TheHops]

I think the simple answer to your question is: They are overweight. Some of them, by quite a bit.

How critical that fact is depends on how the rig is used though. I absolutely would not want to take an overweight pig of a rig with 250 pounds of supplies on the roof bashing across boulders and rock crawling; but for fire roads, easy to moderate trails and the occasional water crossing on the way to camp, being a bit overweight is acceptable to me.

Based on how I use my rig (more of the latter mentioned above), and the fact that I travel alone, I'd rather weigh in a bit heavy and have the extra supplies and capability, than travel light. Just my 2 cents!

 

[steelponycowboy]

Yes good point on the JK and the D30 up front, however many of us, including me have Rubicon models that sport D44s front and rear and most of us have aftermarket suspensions ranging from 2.5 to 4 inches giving a bit of an edge over non Rubicon models for the additional weight and on the trail.

Like I said, I'm waiting until I can order the Mojave Desert Rated Gladiator with the diesel. I've been building Jeeps since 1972 and my 2016 Rubicon in the picture a few posts back is #36. I'm using the experience I've gained including my overland build experience since 2008 to choose the best gear for the Jeeping that I do. In that effort, I've spent hundreds of hours searching for everything Gladiator aftermarket and I've put a spreadsheet together with every part that I plan to add for my "Ultimate Overland Gladiator" build. I say ultimate as in my opinion. While I could build it pretty wild with the Patriot Camper bed and top and make it a $100K+ Jeep but I want to build it in a way with quality parts that the average person can take a look at and build theirs affordably. Something hard to do with a $25K Patriot set up so I plan on doing what I can to be all in under $20K when it is done. There are lots of great builds out there by vendors but most people consider them unobtainables due to the cost of the build. I am hoping my Gladiator will be #37 and my final build.

 

[Mark Doiron]

... Another point that we adhere to is the more remote the destination the more important it is to have other people with you and to that end I have never seen a rig with two winches. In fact I am not planning on installing any winches on my rig as I’m not going to do any rock crawling. That’s not to say I won’t get stuck but if you’re traveling with other people there are better ways to get unstuck in most situations. ...

This is good advice to consider, but there are other situations in which a winch does come in handy (and a tow strap wouldn't work so well) ...

5:14 if not forwarded ...

 

[PyrPatriot]

I came to the same conclusion. That is why I got the Sport Max Tow: 1550lb payload meant 350lbs more weight capacity than the Rubicons on the lot. Decrease by 50lbs for the running boards (not rock crawling so no need for rock rails), still 300lbs more, and I can always add rear lockers for 30lbs, so 270lbs more than the Rubicon.

Mopar steel bumper and Smittybilt winch: 160lbs
Rear winch, hitch cradle, and connectors: 110lbs
270lbs for winches
I would thus still have 1200lbs for gear and occupants: the full payload of a Rubicon

Max Modular AL 14” rack: 42lbs
Front Runner RTT: 93lbs
Straps, ropes, d-rings, hooks, chains, air compressor: 50lbs

Say a 10 day trip for the wife and I, going up to 100mi into the wilderness
3 x 5gal gas tanks (150mi of off road miles, worst case scenario if we need to get back): 120
20gal water: 165
30lbs of food (steaks and potatoes get heavy)
100lbs for fridge, cooking stove, heating fule

600lbs there. We’re at half the Rubicon’s payload left and we’re almost done

That leaves 600lbs for the wife and I, guns, ammo, clothes, sleeping gear, radio, batteries, etc.

or screw the winches, if I am traveling on fairly good trails, a come-along and ground anchor should be just fine. Put that 270lbs of bumber cradle and winches towards a Fab Four rack and extension and be able to carry more stuff easily, I hate obstructing the rear view mirror at all, and that would allow me to store everything below the bed line and on the rack/roof.

My arithmetic could be off.

I wish to update this as it is wrong and will be wrong. With my wife, daughter, me, added a mopar steel bumper (took off wings), winch with synthetic line, other recovery gear, some basic tools, bottle jack, and air compressor, I'm at 5830lbs on the CAT scale after a fill up. GVWR is 6250lbs. BUT, that is with 35s, which weigh 79.6lbs each. Stock Bridgestones weigh 38lbs, so 41.6lbs difference, time 5 is 208lbs back to payload. So say 630lbs left.

630lbs, less 87lbs for JCR full bed rack, 45lbs for half rack, and 100lbs for tent and sleep gear, say 400lbs of payload left for food and other gear. Not bad. I definitely wouldn't be there with a Rubicon unless adding a lift that would maintain around the factory 1600lbs payload like Metalcloak (the only one that has thus far gotten back to me saying so)

 

[MatchingGladiators]

I'd be willing to bet that MOST Jeeps that are equipped for overlanding are overweight. Many of them are overweight by a LOT!
Even regular (day use) Wranglers are often overweight. Massive bumpers, winches, rock rails, oversized tires, bed/top rack systems, tool boxes, extra fuel, etc,..

 

[PyrPatriot]

I'd be willing to bet that MOST Jeeps that are equipped for overlanding are overweight. Many of them are overweight by a LOT!
Even regular (day use) Wranglers are often overweight. Massive bumpers, winches, rock rails, oversized tires, bed/top rack systems, tool boxes, extra fuel, etc,..

add roof/bed racks and heavy tents, they are off on center of gravity as well

 

[PyrPatriot]

Yes

 

[steelponycowboy]

Well I'm not overweight yet but once I get my topper and RTT (backordered) I can install all the goodies in the back and get it weighed.

Lift kit and 35s go on it next Wed, topper to be in next Thursday and not sure about the RTT, scheduled to ship end of June.

Here I am on my 1st big trip, the 6 state, 2800 mile Heart of the West Trail. This is somewhere in Wyoming before we did the Jeep Badge of Honor trail - Monument Ridge.

 

[Dmc]

I’m concerned with this also. My Mojave has a payload of 1059 lbs, not great.

I ordered a diamondback SE that will weigh around 90lbs. That leaves 969lbs. The wife and I go around 350 lbs combined,( I’m working on losing a few lbs), that leaves 619 lbs for cargo.

We are planning on a few big trips and I’m sure we will be pushing the limit.

Also how is the fuel in the tank counted? Is payload figured with full tank or dry?

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