Are new cars too complex to service?

[khockey02]

No.

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[berb]

The flat rate system pays a set number of hours. If you "beat book time", then you make out. If you take longer than book, you aren't paid for that time.

Some dealers will charge back a tech if the problem comes back. That is what we did. I dont' know enough about how things are done now to know if this still happens or if it comes from the manufacturer or the dealer.

One other thing. Book time and hourly rate are less when its warranty work.

So to fix your widget "customer pay" may be 2.5 hours at $135/hr.

If Jeep is paying it as a warranty repair, it may only pay 1.5 hours at $80/hr.



Its less about the competitive aspect why seasoned techs don't want to mentor anyone. Its because they DON'T GET PAID to mentor. Back to what I have been saying all along. Techs do what is in their own best interest.

If a tech is getting paid flat rate on a job and spends 15 minutes helping the new guy, he just pissed away .25 hours.

Exactly why my son went a different route. Not the experienced guy's fault, they need to do what's best for them and their family. These dealerships need to evolve with the times and make the profession more appealing to these kids coming out of high school. There are not enough techs out there and there are definitely not enough training programs. It's a shame because there are a lot of guys out there with the knowledge, but their bodies are just done from all the years of working. They should bring those guys back to train these young kids and get these service departments up to par. Just my thoughts.

 

[ecidiego]

i hate that i lied to myself and said, how could they fuck up an oil change? lol

Oh, they can and WILL! How about 75lbs of torque on your drain plug?

 

[Almost]

I think the bigger issue is parts not being designed to be easily fixed because of some smaller parts it shares.

For example, I keep seeing stories of Jeep having to replace the whole axle on a Rubicon because they don't sell the locker sensor separately, or the poor guy thats been in the shop for months because they need to replace the whole DEF tank because those sensors aren't available separately either. Idk if this is a production issue, and they're just using all parts for manufacturing at the moment leaving no spares, or if it is planned that way. But that is the biggest thing that concerns me long term.

 

[dcmdon]

I think the bigger issue is parts not being designed to be easily fixed because of some smaller parts it shares.

For example, I keep seeing stories of Jeep having to replace the whole axle on a Rubicon because they don't sell the locker sensor separately, or the poor guy thats been in the shop for months because they need to replace the whole DEF tank because those sensors aren't available separately either. Idk if this is a production issue, and they're just using all parts for manufacturing at the moment leaving no spares, or if it is planned that way. But that is the biggest thing that concerns me long term.

Don't forget though that often these parts HAVE been designed to be repaired, but Jeep doesn't keep the subcomponent in stock separately. The locker sensor is easy to replace, now that they have it available as a separate part.

The DEF tank was assembled with those sensors, it can be disassembled. Again, FCA chooses not to make the sensors available separately.

 

[Jefe1018]

I think the systems are becoming more digital and less analog making it harder for the old school folks who grew up tuning carbs. However, new cars are needing more time between service intervals and are lasting longer (feel free to fact check me on that) before needing major services.

My personal belief is that the diagnostics are actually getting easier with the proper scan tools (think JSCAN for example on our Jeeps) than they were before.

We are seeing parts shortages at the moment, but that's because of everything else going on in the world. It is crazy to me that in November of 2019 we were all just going about our business without a care... or at least that is how I am remembering it.

 

[ecidiego]

Our MDX steering column would squeak when it was hot out. As it retracted on exit. Acura put out a TSB - something was insufficiently lubed.

Lube it up right?

Nope. Replace entire steering column. $2000. Under warranty at least.

 

[Deleted member 47279]

Our MDX steering column would squeak when it was hot out. As it retracted on exit. Acura put out a TSB - something was insufficiently lubed.

Lube it up right?

Nope. Replace entire steering column. $2000. Under warranty at least.

Probably because it’s steering Input and feedback they didn’t want the liability of a crash and risk mitigation is to just replace the whole column.

 

[ecidiego]

Probably because it’s steering Input and feedback they didn’t want the liability of a crash and risk mitigation is to just replace the whole column.

How about the puddle lamp on the driver mirror? Yep - little LED lamp went out. Replace $750 mirror assembly.

 

[Deleted member 47279]

How about the puddle lamp on the driver mirror? Yep - little LED lamp went out. Replace $750 mirror assembly.

Lol wildin

 

[seven30]

Well, the group he's in with seem genuine, only time will tell. Hopefully, he's with people like you that will take him under their wing and turn him into a good tech.

If one finds themselves in a good team dont take it for granted. Ive seen ace teams destroyed both from within and without. But being a part of a good team can sure accelerate a career.

 

[seven30]

Exactly why my son went a different route. Not the experienced guy's fault, they need to do what's best for them and their family. These dealerships need to evolve with the times and make the profession more appealing to these kids coming out of high school. There are not enough techs out there and there are definitely not enough training programs. It's a shame because there are a lot of guys out there with the knowledge, but their bodies are just done from all the years of working. They should bring those guys back to train these young kids and get these service departments up to par. Just my thoughts.

Doesn't Germany have a gild system to help preserve skills and knowledge? Before software I used to be a toolmaker. The old guys back then were deities to us. Unbelievable skills and knowledge. All that was offshored and those guys are pretty much gone. Now we are dependent of foreign suppliers.

 

[In3briatedPanda]

personally, i dont think EV is the future, but a stop gap. If people want to discuss more we can PM about it, im not going to thread steal.

Ive been brushing up on my programming skills bc of EV's and their ECM parameters. Being 38 and growing up with cpu's, i find it easier than most but Im also no above average programmer either. Lexus with their proprietary tech doesnt help me at work currently, but Ive messed around with some online stuff and older ecms from friends.

Im preparing to be useful rather than obsolete.

 

[seven30]

personally, i dont think EV is the future, but a stop gap. If people want to discuss more we can PM about it, im not going to thread steal.

Ive been brushing up on my programming skills bc of EV's and their ECM parameters. Being 38 and growing up with cpu's, i find it easier than most but Im also no above average programmer either. Lexus with their proprietary tech doesnt help me at work currently, but Ive messed around with some online stuff and older ecms from friends.

Im preparing to be useful rather than obsolete.

You are 100% right about that. EVs are just EVs. they are not a solution just an alternative with pros and cons.

 

[Willys2Gladiator]

I change my own oil and have never had an issue due to it. Do I really want to use the free ones so the dealer can screw up things I have to pay for?? 3 free oil changes = 3 chances to screw up something to fix later.

Exactly this! I never used any of the free oil changes on my JT or JL. Peace of mind knowing it's done correctly by you and you take the time and care required.

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