Check Your Insurance Coverage

[PyrPatriot]

Even if you can afford to wreck an LE JTR, it is prudent for everyone to know their coverage limitations. Especially when it comes to mods and off-roading. For example:

A guy in the FB group totaled his Taco while “off-roading” on a designated trail. His insurance, Nationwide, covered it.

But whether YOUR vehicle would be covered depends on the details.

For example: I have Geico. Great service. Great price ($150/mo cheaper than any other provider). I was getting conflicting responses but so far nailed it down to the following (and requested my coverage CONTRACT to verify)

They do and do not cover mods and “off roading”

What is off-roading? Anywhere not on a government maintained road. At first they said “paved”, but upon checking they found their definition only required it be maintained by a gov agency and intended for vehicular traffic. So, even a rutted rocky trail at a state park, if intended for traffic, would be covered. However, your car going into a ditch on your own property, not covered, unless it is paved. Paved may include gravel. Ultimately an claims adjuster would decide, but they have at least some contract binding language that they can point to saying “we dont have to pay for that”

Mods. Any lift that raises or lowers your vehicle over 6” from factory height voids coverage. Tires of “significantly size” also void coverage. What does that mean? Even the claims folks didnt know. By the way they read it, I could have a 6” lift and 40” tires, exceeding 6” height raise restrictions and be covered. I, in my experience dealing with insurance claims and contracts, would interpret the language as they read to me to mean lift and tire above 6” voids coverage. They are silent on how they measure the 6 inches increase, from pumpkin or from top of vehicle?
Anything that increases performance, including horsepower, voids coverage. That’s right. They specifically have included turbos, exhaust mods, etc. Even a simple thing like a cold-air intake would let them wiggle out of coverage. But increasing off-road performance doesnt void coverage because they have provisions for that elsewhere.

So, what does your insurance limit? For those who needed a claim from off-roading damage, how did that go?

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[ShadowsPapa]

Even if you can afford to wreck an LE JTR, it is prudent for everyone to know their coverage limitations. Especially when it comes to mods and off-roading. For example:

A guy in the FB group totaled his Taco while “off-roading” on a designated trail. His insurance, Nationwide, covered it.

But whether YOUR vehicle would be covered depends on the details.

For example: I have Geico. Great service. Great price ($150/mo cheaper than any other provider). I was getting conflicting responses but so far nailed it down to the following (and requested my coverage CONTRACT to verify)

They do and do not cover mods and “off roading”

What is off-roading? Anywhere not on a government maintained road. At first they said “paved”, but upon checking they found their definition only required it be maintained by a gov agency and intended for vehicular traffic. So, even a rutted rocky trail at a state park, if intended for traffic, would be covered. However, your car going into a ditch on your own property, not covered, unless it is paved. Paved may include gravel. Ultimately an claims adjuster would decide, but they have at least some contract binding language that they can point to saying “we dont have to pay for that”

Mods. Any lift that raises or lowers your vehicle over 6” from factory height voids coverage. Tires of “significantly size” also void coverage. What does that mean? Even the claims folks didnt know. By the way they read it, I could have a 6” lift and 40” tires, exceeding 6” height raise restrictions and be covered. I, in my experience dealing with insurance claims and contracts, would interpret the language as they read to me to mean lift and tire above 6” voids coverage. They are silent on how they measure the 6 inches increase, from pumpkin or from top of vehicle?
Anything that increases performance, including horsepower, voids coverage. That’s right. They specifically have included turbos, exhaust mods, etc. Even a simple thing like a cold-air intake would let them wiggle out of coverage. But increasing off-road performance doesnt void coverage because they have provisions for that elsewhere.

So, what does your insurance limit? For those who needed a claim from off-roading damage, how did that go?

My Javelins - covered "stated value". I said I wanted my 70 covered for 25K - and my 73 for 11 (about to up that due to the improvements to it lately). And they have to cover it up to that amount. Period. No matter (unless racing or during illegal activity). That includes towing it, driving it. My Javelin stock was around 300 hp and is now 377 hp - even if I take it to 500 I'm fine. No troubles there. (as long as I drive it legally)
Mods to trucks - I'll have to look but raising them to the point of drastically changing the center of gravity - that can be an issue legally and insurance-wise in some locations and with some policies.

Roads don't have to be paved or even gravel to be maintained for public use - there are dirt roads that either have no or little gravel that are maintained by a government entity so "paved" is meaningless. Go to MO - dirt roads, signs may say "minimal maintenance" or words to that effect. But they are public roadways.

Everyone does need to check THEIR policies.
Mine are pretty generous.
I recall interviewing insurance agents years ago when I started farming. I didn't have a combine and a couple other things and asked about damage to my equipment or that of others, I got mixed answers. Then I asked this young agent what if there's a tile washout and a guy is combining my corn and hits the tile washout and busts up a snout............ he said "we'll cover that under collision" I said HUH? He said - well, it collided with a hole didn't it? He has always taken care of us.
I bought all of my insurance from him - and still do - even though we are almost 3 hours away from him now.

 

[PyrPatriot]

My Javelins - covered "stated value". I said I wanted my 70 covered for 25K - and my 73 for 11 (about to up that due to the improvements to it lately). And they have to cover it up to that amount. Period. No matter (unless racing or during illegal activity). That includes towing it, driving it. My Javelin stock was around 300 hp and is now 377 hp - even if I take it to 500 I'm fine. No troubles there. (as long as I drive it legally)
Mods to trucks - I'll have to look but raising them to the point of drastically changing the center of gravity - that can be an issue legally and insurance-wise in some locations and with some policies.

Roads don't have to be paved or even gravel to be maintained for public use - there are dirt roads that either have no or little gravel that are maintained by a government entity so "paved" is meaningless. Go to MO - dirt roads, signs may say "minimal maintenance" or words to that effect. But they are public roadways.

Everyone does need to check THEIR policies.
Mine are pretty generous.
I recall interviewing insurance agents years ago when I started farming. I didn't have a combine and a couple other things and asked about damage to my equipment or that of others, I got mixed answers. Then I asked this young agent what if there's a tile washout and a guy is combining my corn and hits the tile washout and busts up a snout............ he said "we'll cover that under collision" I said HUH? He said - well, it collided with a hole didn't it? He has always taken care of us.
I bought all of my insurance from him - and still do - even though we are almost 3 hours away from him now.

It is good you have someone like that you can trust. I have seen an insurance company deny coverage because a car was parked at the insured’s parents house following a divorce. They were just visiting for a month or so, hectic time, other things to deal with. Insurance argued (successfully I might add) that it violated the contract on where the car was “garaged” and voided coverage due to the risk assessment of where the vehicle was being kept for so long being different than when they quoted the policy. The person was hit by an underinsured driver and their underinsured coverage did not fully kick in because of the discrepancy

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It is good you have someone like that you can trust. I have seen an insurance company deny coverage because a car was parked at the insured’s parents house following a divorce. They were just visiting for a month or so, hectic time, other things to deal with. Insurance argued (successfully I might add) that it violated the contract on where the car was “garaged” and voided coverage due to the risk assessment of where the vehicle was being kept for so long being different than when they quoted the policy. The person was hit by an underinsured driver and their underinsured coverage did not fully kick in because of the discrepancy

My vehicles are covered no matter where they sit unless the place they sit should be covering them. If I park them at my in-laws, they are covered (not that that would happen with how my wife feels about some of her family, but hey.........)
If I am trailering it, it's covered.

 

[Klutch]

My Javelins - covered "stated value". I said I wanted my 70 covered for 25K - and my 73 for 11 (about to up that due to the improvements to it lately). And they have to cover it up to that amount. Period. No matter (unless racing or during illegal activity). That includes towing it, driving it. My Javelin stock was around 300 hp and is now 377 hp - even if I take it to 500 I'm fine. No troubles there. (as long as I drive it legally)
Mods to trucks - I'll have to look but raising them to the point of drastically changing the center of gravity - that can be an issue legally and insurance-wise in some locations and with some policies.

Roads don't have to be paved or even gravel to be maintained for public use - there are dirt roads that either have no or little gravel that are maintained by a government entity so "paved" is meaningless. Go to MO - dirt roads, signs may say "minimal maintenance" or words to that effect. But they are public roadways.

Everyone does need to check THEIR policies.
Mine are pretty generous.
I recall interviewing insurance agents years ago when I started farming. I didn't have a combine and a couple other things and asked about damage to my equipment or that of others, I got mixed answers. Then I asked this young agent what if there's a tile washout and a guy is combining my corn and hits the tile washout and busts up a snout............ he said "we'll cover that under collision" I said HUH? He said - well, it collided with a hole didn't it? He has always taken care of us.
I bought all of my insurance from him - and still do - even though we are almost 3 hours away from him now.

Sounds like your Javelin policy is actually "Agreed Value" and not "Stated Value". With Stated value, the insurance company gives you whatever they like should the car get totaled. My 1970 Mach 1 is insured with Hagerty and it most definitely an Agreed Value policy.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Sounds like your Javelin policy is actually "Agreed Value" and not "Stated Value". With Stated value, the insurance company gives you whatever they like should the car get totaled. My 1970 Mach 1 is insured with Hagerty and it most definitely an Agreed Value policy.

Some people are just sharp-eyed.

One thing my agent always insisted on is PHOTOS. Lots of photos. He wanted all kinds of photos of all angles, under, inside, under hood, every direction, good photos on file for him and for me.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Some people are just sharp-eyed.

One thing my agent always insisted on is PHOTOS. Lots of photos. He wanted all kinds of photos of all angles, under, inside, under hood, every direction, good photos on file for him and for me.

I took lots of photos of my Jeep when it was under 1k miles. More so for me to look at and practice identifying parts.

 

[gladi_recon]

Mountain State Overland just went through this whole process when somebody was texting and driving and hit them. They did a pretty good video covering the process.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The part I love is where you have to accept after-market replacements these days - instead of genuine replacement parts - fenders, hoods, grills and other stuff that is often thinner gauge, cheaper made, not the same quality.
I hope it never comes, but if someone smacks my Javelin or Eagle - LOL - good luck with that! NO SUCH THING as after-market parts and a new fender may cost 'em 2 grand IF they can even find one. Quarter panel for a Javelin - doesn't exist. For an SX4 - I have a pair but they aren't getting those to use - they'll have to go find new ones if they can and buy 'em for me. There are zero rust-free Eagle parts out there. And it's about the same for the Javelin now - good luck with that.

Ticks me off that someone can trash your vehicle and their company will only make it look ok - they won't pay to make it like it used to be with the correct genuine replacement parts. Our legal system used to be founded on the principal that you put back all that you took or damaged to the point that it was like before you became involved. That's how it was founded 200+ years ago here. You cost someone a $500 watch - you get things back to where they were - you don't replace their watch with a $400 watch that looks the same.

 

[Klutch]

Some people are just sharp-eyed.

One thing my agent always insisted on is PHOTOS. Lots of photos. He wanted all kinds of photos of all angles, under, inside, under hood, every direction, good photos on file for him and for me.

I have heard about insurers requiring lots of pictures. When I called Hagerty, I simply told them what car I have and the condition. They gave me a value upon which we both agreed and that was that. Hagerty will actually assist with finding original parts for repairs. And, contrary to popular belief, my Mustang has no mileage limits for insurance purposes.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have heard about insurers requiring lots of pictures. When I called Hagerty, I simply told them what car I have and the condition. They gave me a value upon which we both agreed and that was that. Hagerty will actually assist with finding original parts for repairs. And, contrary to popular belief, my Mustang has no mileage limits for insurance purposes.

They never even asked for the mileage on mine........
Now they do have the mileage of our other stuff because there's a huge discount for keeping under 7500 miles a year. I doubt I'll be able to stick with it on the JT. I kept about 6,000-6500 a year on the Silverado and my wife does about 5,000 a year on her GC - I put tons of miles on my Eagle. It's like a badge of honor having almost 200,000 miles on it, though. Bummer that I started over when I put the NOS speedometer in it but I kept the original to prove it had over 193,000 miles when I swapped speedometers.

So my quandry - keep the WJ and spread the miles out? Keep insurance on the JT lower by keeping it under 7500/year - or sell the WJ and say what the heck and rack up miles on the JT and pay a higher or the normal premium without the low miles discount?
Possibly the premium savings of the WJ would pay for the extra JT insurance costs - but do I want to put that many more miles on the JT or put them on the WJ that has 125,000 miles on it already anyway. I don't have the low miles/year discount on it as I bought it from Dad's estate to drive.....and put a lot of miles on it in a year.

 

[BLK HOLE]

“I dodged a deer, flopped into a ditch. Was able to get it home”

 

[desertfox73]

OP, when you say "voids coverage", are you saying that modifying the vehicle as you describe voids ALL coverage, or only certain types of coverage (I.e. they won't pay to replace modifications)? That seems ridiculously extreme to say that because you have a certain lift they won't cover you in the event of an uninsured motorist running into your parked car. That's ridiculous...that event would have nothing to do with your mods...and might actually make your claim less expensive since you're lifting the expensive pieces further from the area of impact.

FWIW, for all of the complaining about the socialization of healthcare and loss of health coverage we've had in this country, it still amazes me that nobody has made a huge issue about the vehicle insurance industry getting away with exactly the same thing. Total horsesh**.

 

[PyrPatriot]

OP, when you say "voids coverage", are you saying that modifying the vehicle as you describe voids ALL coverage, or only certain types of coverage (I.e. they won't pay to replace modifications)? That seems ridiculously extreme to say that because you have a certain lift they won't cover you in the event of an uninsured motorist running into your parked car. That's ridiculous...that event would have nothing to do with your mods...and might actually make your claim less expensive since you're lifting the expensive pieces further from the area of impact.

FWIW, for all of the complaining about the socialization of healthcare and loss of health coverage we've had in this country, it still amazes me that nobody has made a huge issue about the vehicle insurance industry getting away with exactly the same thing. Total horsesh**.

The excluded types of modifications void your policy. They only have to pay to what is in the contract. And if the contract says they dont cover vehicles modded to lift above 6” or have a turbo installed that increases hp, it is no longer an insured vehicle. That means they dont have to pay, period. It will depend on the actual wording of your contract. Other folks on other forums with other insurance companies have said their vehicle wasnt covered because it was modded too much. I suspect Geico, State Farm, and Allstate, have about the same attitude and their own requirements. Every insurance company has explicitly stated coverage. They have paragraphs for terms like “road”, “claim”, “insured”, “vehicle” and “driver”. It is up to the individual to know these terms

And it is totally fair. The company assessed the risk of covering your vehicle when it was in one state of being. You modify it enough and the risk changes to where they would either charge you more premium or not cover you at all. And they dont do it willy nilly, their number crunchers looked at who was claiming under what circumstances and mathematically the risk:cost was too much. Now, if someone wants coverage for off-road vehicles, monster trucks, etc they can get it. The insurance company can look at that.

Comparing car insurance to health insurance doesnt work. I pay $250/mo for my 2 vehicles, and $1250/mo for my family’s health insurance. I have never had to file a car insurance claim, but I have had to use health insurance every year multiple times. Not even close in comparison of costs and risks

 

[Willcofam]

Good advice. I never thought about actually requesting the contract, which should be common sense. Contacting my insurance to do the same.

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