Cold Air Intakes are a waste

[WaterDR]

I have been very skeptical with CAIs. Why? Well, I have lots of experience with tuning mustangs and they are all smoke and mirrors. They just don’t work....and in most cases the gains are temporary because they can “trick” the engine into running more lean until the computer corrects it.

this is the most detailed study I have seen on a jeep. And it’s proof that they are bogus.

this guy did see a 5 degree improvement in air temps (which frankly is hardly anything) and say 1db increase in sounds he actually LOST HP.

The stock set up is very well matched!

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[WaterDR]

 

[WaterDR]

 

[DanW]

I have been very skeptical with CAIs. Why? Well, I have lots of experience with tuning mustangs and they are all smoke and mirrors. They just don’t work....and in most cases the gains are temporary because they can “trick” the engine into running more lean until the computer corrects it.

this is the most detailed study I have seen on a jeep. And it’s proof that they are bogus.

this guy did see a 5 degree improvement in air temps (which frankly is hardly anything) and say 1db increase in sounds he actually LOST HP.

The stock set up is very well matched!

A friend of mine is one of the Pentastar's original design engineers. He said they don't leave any horsepower on the table when they engineer these things. They want everything they can get in terms of power and efficiency. He said these companies engineering these things don't have even a tiny fraction of the R&D budget the design team had. They got every hp they could get out of that stock intake while making it nice, smooth, and quiet. It is absolutely optimized for this engine and application.

I believe CAIs are to please the ear. Nothing more. I'm still waiting to hear from a couple vendors I asked to send me one to try and I would publish the results. My nephew owns a drag racing engine building company and offered me his dyno for before/after data. I'm not shocked there were no takers. I told them that if it even gained just 2hp, I'd pay for it. Crickets.

Funny, too....Banks claims the best air flow, but they make no specific claims for power increase, like some do. They only show how they beat the competition in air flow and that it "increases power and efficiency." They give no numbers and don't even hint at them. I think that says something.

 

[WhatExit?]

Cold Air Intakes (CAI) deliver acronyms:

* Seat of the pants (SOTP) power increase ("feels more powerful")
* Sounds more powerful (SMP)
* A reduction in your funds (RIF)
* An increased risk of Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor issues = Check Engine Light (CEL)

Putting these things on off road vehicles is likely a worse idea than putting them into on-road vehicles due to water / dirt / dust, etc. And oiling a CAI filter can cause the dreaded CEL.

I learned years ago that CAIs are a waste of funds (WOF)

Acronyms:

 

[Riccochet]

The only way a CAI would make a difference is if there was a restriction in the stock air box. Which there isn't. Not on any modern engine anyways.

Besides that. Everything on modern engines is computer controlled. The ECU is metering the air coming in, metering the fuel being injected and controlling the throttle body regardless of what your right foot is doing. That computer is only going to allow so much air and fuel in.

The best bang for the buck mod anyone can do is tuning. There is power to be had in the Pentastar engine when you're not constrained by bean counters demanding fuel efficiency and emissions numbers be met.

 

[hobbsserv]

The best bang for the buck mod anyone can do is tuning. There is power to be had in the Pentastar engine when you're not constrained by bean counters demanding fuel efficiency and emissions numbers be met.
[/QUOTE]
Ok Help me understand. What tuning specifically are you referring too??

 

[SuburbanGP88]

Tuning in terms of performance chips and free flowing exhaust are your best bets. CAI and all the other bro science wiz bang stuff do nothing but make you feel better about yourself while lightening your wallet.

The engineers for these cars don't leave hidden HP that can be unlocked like when you level up in a game. If it was as easy as bolting on an intake or putting some little magnet on the fuel line or whatever cheap gizmo that will boost power and efficiency they would have done it already. You think they can't afford a few more dollars on a car they built to compete in the hot mid size truck market?

 

[WaterDR]

Again...this is a topic I have studied for 20 years. They are all pretty much garbage and achieve zip. There are some rare exceptions.

You can achieve the same results by tweaking the air inlet temp sensor into leaning up the a/f....I wouldn’t do it though.

As to the comments on tuning....UNLESS you can safely lean-up the AF, there are really no HP to be gained at all.

Shit....when I was racing we used to dump ice packs around the intake. Also used methanol injection and I have lots of experience with nitrous.

The true test of any mod is at the track. Next best thing, is a dyno.

And ANY improvement comes with risk.

 

[Riccochet]

The best bang for the buck mod anyone can do is tuning. There is power to be had in the Pentastar engine when you're not constrained by bean counters demanding fuel efficiency and emissions numbers be met.

Ok Help me understand. What tuning specifically are you referring too??
[/QUOTE]

Tuning the ECU. Via something like a Diablosport and custom tuning.

 

[WaterDR]

Hell, spraying nitrous on the outside of an inter cooler on a turbo/SC application on a hot, humid night will wake up a motor.

 

[Riccochet]

Again...this is a topic I have studied for 20 years. They are all pretty much garbage and achieve zip. There are some rare exceptions.

You can achieve the same results by tweaking the air inlet temp sensor into leaning up the a/f....I wouldn’t do it though.

As to the comments on tuning....UNLESS you can safely lean-up the AF, there are really no HP to be gained at all.

Shit....when I was racing we used to dump ice packs around the intake. Also used methanol injection and I have lots of experience with nitrous.

The true test of any mod is at the track. Next best thing, is a dyno.

And ANY improvement comes with risk.

Fuel mapping is part of the puzzle. Being able to make adjustments to the throttle body being another. Variable valve timing adjustments.

There are a lot of parameters on modern engines that can be adjusted to increase power. Hell, on my Ram, before I bolted anything on, we gained 27 HP and 33 ft/lbs with tuning alone. Dyno numbers. That's not bad for $1000.

 

[Solidaxle]

You could probably say all the same things about a performance muffler. But that sure doesn’t stop people.

 

[DanW]

Anything you do has tradeoffs. Besides trying to achieve max power and efficiency, the OEM designs the engine to last a long time. They are better than ever at that.

I remember as a kid checking to see the odometer everytime we saw a Volvo 240. When we saw one with 250k on it, we were amazed. Back then cars and engines were wrung out by 100k miles. I saw a Jeep JK with a 3.8 with 270k on it recently that the owner described as running "perfect." He was on his 2nd water pump, but beyond that, only maintenance. I've seen many Pentastars well beyond 200k and a couple at 300k that all ran well and the owners love them.

But it all depends on your goals. My goal is for this engine to reliably take me on many, many adventures and ultimately, it will probably outlast me. So I'm not trying to eek every horsepower out of it. Instead, my focus is on excellent maintenance practices so that its performance doesn't fall off. I will admit, though, I put a Magnaflow axle back on it because it sounds great. And I run it hard throught the gears because it is fun to drive. But according to my friend the Pentastar engineer, there is absolutely no harm in that.

By the way. One tip he gives very strongly. Disable or don't use the ESS. he believes it will cause premature wear. He did not design this version of the engine and he did say they applied a special coating to the high wear parts to mitigate this, so it might be fine, but he doesn't trust it. But hey, if it works, imagine how long this engine could last if you don't use it with ESS and you still have the coatings.

But I digress....

With all that, I wouldn't fault somebody for getting a CAI for the sound. I've heard some of them can sound amazing.

That leads me to one last point. I won't run a high flow cotton or cloth air filter. Only high filtering efficiency paper filters for mine. Its an off-road vehicle, so it will serve in dusty areas that will be problematic for these kinds of filters, even overwhelming them.

 

[KurtP]

The amount of horse shit information in this thread on how ecu‘s work is astounding.

im always amazed at how emphatically people will insist ecu’s work despite never having looked at a single script of it’s code or tested data logs.

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