Cold Air Intakes are a waste

[WaterDR]

then why did they make the air boxes bigger

Doesn’t make a difference how big the box is....you can only put so much air through the motor.

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[KurtP]

Doesn’t make a difference how big the box is....you can only put so much air through the motor.

I understand that. What I'm asking is why does FCA put a larger airbox on the 3.6 motors that make more power than they do in the Gladiator. If the gladiator airbox presented no restriction, they wouldnt need the larger airbox. The mopar CAI airbox outlet matches the output size on the GC, iirc.

I'll agree that a new airbox or intake doesn't make a ton of power. But it would be interesting to see one tested on a gladiator that was tuned up to spec for the motor.

The common misconception on the ECU is that it constantly adjusts to a pre-set power value, and that's not accurate. It's going to collect date from the o2 sensor during closed loop operation to keep the AFR at 14.7. Leaner than that and it will add fuel, richer than that and it will remove fuel. If an airbox (or anything) removes restriction within that chain of events, the ecu will compensate to the preset value within the range it is able to control through STFT and LTFT.

If you want to see what power some change to tuning or hard part can make, the best way to do it is put the vehicle on the dyno, and alter the AFR from lean to rich at a steady state RPM and load and see what gives you the most tq, then repeat the process with the change and see what the results are. Adding more air or removing restriction from that air flow will change the fuel requirements and what power will be available at what points in the tq curve. Ive seen basic before and after dyno runs with intakes some making power some not; I havent seen one of a vehicle that had it's fuel curve optimized. Might be gains, might not be. My assertion isnt that the intake will necessarily add power or not; but more that we don't really know either way because it hasn't been tested with fuel curve changes. At least, not that I've seen from some limited searching.

I might try the Mopar intake with a pulsar or livernois and see if there are results there. At least in that case a snorkel can still be added, and you always have the option of returning to a paper element for dusty conditions. Might be a waste of time and some added noise, might help with pedal feel, might make a couple ft/lb.

I've read previously that the Gladiator doesnt start enriching in an open loop protocol until something like 5k rpms. so, if that's the case, I'd correct the fuel curve before doing anything else anyway, assuming power is the goal.

 

[DreamedofaJeepSomeday]

I am certain that my axle back exhaust did not increase power. But it DID increase my enjoyment by magnifying the song this sweet little V6 produces as I go through the gears.

That's what I want to know: How to sort through the description of the sound an aftermarket muffler gives.

I don't want a loud sound, just - what? a little throat? I loved the sound my '71 MB 280SL made. I always assumed it had straight-through exhaust, what we used to call "glas-packs". It was a straight six with a lovely deep sound. I would like something akin to that out of my Gladiator. That was 50 years ago, but I still remember the sound.

Yes, both the MB and the JT had (have) stick shift.

 

[DanW]

That's what I want to know: How to sort through the description of the sound an aftermarket muffler gives.

I don't want a loud sound, just - what? a little throat? I loved the sound my '71 MB 280SL made. I always assumed it had straight-through exhaust, what we used to call "glas-packs". It was a straight six with a lovely deep sound. I would like something akin to that out of my Gladiator. That was 50 years ago, but I still remember the sound.

Yes, both the MB and the JT had (have) stick shift.

With the stick, I think you'd love the sound of an exahust system even more. I can't keep my foot out of mine because it sounds so good. But it is not obnoxious. You get the sound only when you want it.

A Magnaflow rep steered me towar the axle back for the same reasons you gave. I wanted good sound but not a drone or extra highway noise. I wanted the best behavior at both ends of the spectrum, quiet for normal driving and a nice sound when going through the gears. When first installed, I almost thought it wasn't loud/throaty enough. As I lived with it for a couple weeks, I wound up feeling it was just right. It is music to my ears, all the way to redline. It has a good sound at low rpm, too. One thing it does that I love is when approaching a stop, when I put the clutch in, foot off the gas and on the brake, the throttle blips. I never heard or perceived that little rev blip with the stock exhaust. My wife thought I was doing it to sound cool, so I had to explain to her that I would have to have a 3rd foot to do that, Lol!

Magnaflow said the axle back was the mildest, then the cat back, and then the off road would be the loudest, without the large muffler piece.

If you lived close, I'd let you drive it around and flog it. It is just so hard to tell from videos or recordings. They never sound the same.

I haven't heard the Flomaster or AFE or others, but I'd bet they all sound good. I'm 100% thrilled with the Magnaflow.

If anyone is interested in a stock exhaust with very few miles on it, let me know. It's collecting dust and taking up space in my garage. Lol!

 

[DreamedofaJeepSomeday]

With the stick, I think you'd love the sound of an exahust system even more. I can't keep my foot out of mine because it sounds so good. But it is not obnoxious. You get the sound only when you want it.

A Magnaflow rep steered me towar the axle back for the same reasons you gave. I wanted good sound but not a drone or extra highway noise. I wanted the best behavior at both ends of the spectrum, quiet for normal driving and a nice sound when going through the gears. When first installed, I almost thought it wasn't loud/throaty enough. As I lived with it for a couple weeks, I wound up feeling it was just right. It is music to my ears, all the way to redline. It has a good sound at low rpm, too. One thing it does that I love is when approaching a stop, when I put the clutch in, foot off the gas and on the brake, the throttle blips. I never heard or perceived that little rev blip with the stock exhaust. My wife thought I was doing it to sound cool, so I had to explain to her that I would have to have a 3rd foot to do that, Lol!

Magnaflow said the axle back was the mildest, then the cat back, and then the off road would be the loudest, without the large muffler piece.

If you lived close, I'd let you drive it around and flog it. It is just so hard to tell from videos or recordings. They never sound the same.

I haven't heard the Flomaster or AFE or others, but I'd bet they all sound good. I'm 100% thrilled with the Magnaflow.

If anyone is interested in a stock exhaust with very few miles on it, let me know. It's collecting dust and taking up space in my garage. Lol!

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for - thanks!

But . . . on Magnaflow.s website, I don't see an axle-back fro JT, just for JL. What am I missing?

 

[DanW]

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for - thanks!

But . . . on Magnaflow.s website, I don't see an axle-back fro JT, just for JL. What am I missing?

I'd contact them. They can tell you how it compares and if they are making one. I can't imagine they won't have one at least in the works.

 

[mike921921]

Nice to see some pulls debunking CAI's. Too much 'sound/seat/feel data' out there.

 

[WaterDR]

Ok

Nice to see some pulls debunking CAI's. Too much 'sound/seat data' out there.

this install not only debunks them, but shows they in this case, it LOST power.

but I bet the owner would say “wow, can really see it by the seat of the pants.”.

 

[mike921921]

Ok


this install not only debunks them, but shows they in this case, it LOST power.

but I bet the owner would say “wow, can really see it by the seat of the pants.”.

Best part is, he really wanted to see a (positive) performance gain.

 

[Tonyzak36]

They do work well if your looking to suck water into your engine...

 

[AKDrifter]

Go to the Pentastar Facebook page and there is living breathing proof that the Pentastar is impervious to N/A building. Guys dump all kinds of money doing everything they can think of and gain nothing at all. The latest idea was a lightweight crank pulley. Reducing rotational mass should gain something but on the Pentastar nope just gave people a bunch of oil leaks and no power gain. The only way to get more power from the Pentastar engine is forced induction, that has been pretty well proven at this point.

 

[DreamedofaJeepSomeday]

The latest idea was a lightweight crank pulley. Reducing rotational mass should gain something but on the Pentastar nope . . .

Might improve throttle response a tiny bit, but certainly no power gain. Simple physics.

 

[gitnit]

I have been very skeptical with CAIs. Why? Well, I have lots of experience with tuning mustangs and they are all smoke and mirrors. They just don’t work....and in most cases the gains are temporary because they can “trick” the engine into running more lean until the computer corrects it.

this is the most detailed study I have seen on a jeep. And it’s proof that they are bogus.

this guy did see a 5 degree improvement in air temps (which frankly is hardly anything) and say 1db increase in sounds he actually LOST HP.

The stock set up is very well matched!

I've always been skeptical of them and call bs at hp gains. I don't feel the same about a snorkel but I'm not fording rivers at my age, just snow. Good call

 

[rvillano8188]

I've always been skeptical of them and call bs at hp gains. I don't feel the same about a snorkel but I'm not fording rivers at my age, just snow. Good call

most of the snorkels aren’t snorkels, it’s to just to protect from dust and dirt. Too many electronics to change the fording depth.

My opinion on the rest of this obsurd thread that’s been beaten down in 10 threads like it, is like anything else, you can’t tell people it isn’t worth the money if what they’re looking for is sound over power. I knew I wasn’t getting power from my AFE CAI. I wanted some more throat inside the cab without putting an exhaust on a V6. It’s also more aesthetically pleasing under the hood. Money not wasted in my opinion. I got what I wanted.

 

[firemedic2714]

For their intended use, they are useless. The main reason I bought one is so I don't ever have to spend $20-$30 on a disposable filter. In addition to enjoying the sound it makes, the noise makes it easier to know when I need to shift without always looking at the tachometer. I know a drop-in K&N is probably the cheapest route you can go for reusable, but the CAIs are great eye candy when the hoods open, too.. found one used for a very reasonable price and in the past I've always been able to make most of my money back when I sell the Jeep. JMO.

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