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Diesel vs gas

charger318

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I read all the posts about the preference for diesel engines. As I have never owned one I wonder what the advantage is.
Being as I have always had 440's and new and old Hemi's I worry about that power I get from them.
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Billy

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Diesels have better torque at low RPM, so they pull like crazy while using less fuel, and run cooler too. For me it's a seat of the pants thing. It feels stronger, so I prefer it over the anemic gassers. I'm also convinced they're less prone to MPG drop off with lifts, bigger tires and in head winds...
 
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megamucho

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For those who live and/or Jeep at elevation, the power loss of a naturally aspirated engine is around 3% for every thousand feet of altitude above sea level. For a forced-induction engine, the power loss is more like 1% for every thousand feet. I live around 7k ft ASL and regularly visit 8-10k ASL for the activities I intend to do with the Jeep. Operating at 10k ft, I’d much rather lose 10% power with the diesel vs. 30% power for the gas N/A engine; the added baseline torque of the diesel, plus extended range are just bonus.
 

Billy

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For those who live and/or Jeep at elevation, the power loss of a naturally aspirated engine is around 3% for every thousand feet of altitude above sea level. For a forced-induction engine, the power loss is more like 1% for every thousand feet. I live around 7k ft ASL and regularly visit 8-10k ASL for the activities I intend to do with the Jeep. Operating at 10k ft, I’d much rather lose 10% power with the diesel vs. 30% power for the gas N/A engine; the added baseline torque of the diesel, plus extended range are just bonus.
In addition, let's hope we get a larger tank than the JL. Say 25, maybe 30 gallons...
 

jeepncrowd

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I'm also convinced they're less prone to MPG drop off with lifts, bigger tires and in head winds...
I thought that too, but my mild ecodiesel wk2 (tuned) build dropped the mpgs from 28-29 highway to 22-23 highway by just going up 1.5" in tire size (32" AT), adding a steel bumper and gobi roof rack. No actual lift on the Jeep. Now the city mpgs didn't really take much of a hit though.
I still want the diesel though. That chug sound and the low end power are great.

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bairdy380

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I've always run diesel for the lower end torque...bit more control up and down hills with not so much loud pedal. Plus the odd trailer with wood, ditrbikes or camping gear etc... that being said, ny current daily runner is really not liking the short run to a train station to get to work...so the fuel efficiency/cost is really testing my resolve vs the 5% where I really want the torque. I'll be watching the new gens with keen interest in both...
 

4by

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I read all the posts about the preference for diesel engines. As I have never owned one I wonder what the advantage is.
Being as I have always had 440's and new and old Hemi's I worry about that power I get from them.
Although it's been a while, the only diesel I've ever owned was a dodge pickup. I hated that truck. Gas mileage was horrible, noise was irritating, and diesel fuel is quite a bit more expensive. My 6 cylinder jeep wrangler would actually tow my small trailer better.
 

eternus

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I'm curious about this too, and have seen all the stated advantages here. Elsewhere I had read that if you mostly do "short" drives then its worse for your engine because it never heats up properly... I'm not sure what "short drives are" since the commentors were either "i live 3 miles from work" or "i round trip 100 miles a day" which is a huge range. I have a 15 mile commute at slow hwy speeds (55-65 mph) for much of it. I can't tell if I drive too short a difference and that the engine will suffer. I'll be waiting to see how the 3.0L Turbo rates for MPG and taking off from the light... I do like to be the first guy pulling away from the light, much to my MPG's frustration.)

1-2 times a year I will be towing a 3500 lb trailer from Colorado to wherever, and with my 3.6L JKU w/ 3.73 and 33" tires just sucks going up mountains. I don't see how the JL with the same engine, ratio and tire size will be any better... so am curious about going Rubicon to get 4:10 or go Diesel for the engine perks.
 

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Elsewhere I had read that if you mostly do "short" drives then its worse for your engine because it never heats up properly... I have a 15 mile commute at slow hwy speeds (55-65 mph) for much of it. I can't tell if I drive too short a difference and that the engine will suffer.
It's not that the engine doesn't heat up properly. It's that with mostly lower speed, short drives, the engine won't be able to start/ finish a regeneration cycle. If the dpf can't be cleaned through a regen, the engine may enter limp mode.

From what I've read, a full regen generally takes about 20-30 minutes at highway speeds.
 

eternus

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From what I've read, a full regen generally takes about 20-30 minutes at highway speeds.
So... does that 20-30 minutes at hwy speeds need to be EVERY time you drive, or can you just hit the regen cycle every few days?
 

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DaveNH

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So... does that 20-30 minutes at hwy speeds need to be EVERY time you drive, or can you just hit the regen cycle every few days?
It depends on how full the dpf is and when the computer decides it needs to be cleaned. I was reading about the first generation Ecodiesel in the Ram, and iirc, some were seeing regens at 55% full.

I know there's at least one member here with the ED in the Grand Cherokee who might be able to give better info.
 

jeepncrowd

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It depends on how full the dpf is and when the computer decides it needs to be cleaned. I was reading about the first generation Ecodiesel in the Ram, and iirc, some were seeing regens at 55% full.

I know there's at least one member here with the ED in the Grand Cherokee who might be able to give better info.
WK2 Ecodiesel
I have the tune which tells me during all regens. It take about 13 minutes on the highway and 20 minutes on the street to regen. You can speed up the regen in traffic by manually shifting to a lower gear and keeping the RPMS up. But this burns a lot of fuel.
 

MoaKane

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Diesels like to work. Having had 20+ both work and personal Ford 2500's and Ram 2500's as well as 2 VW TDI's my preference is to own a diesel.

When making your decision you need to weigh the offset. Will you keep it long enough for the premium cost of the diesel to payoff if you arent going to use to to work? By work I mean tow or haul heavy. Its like owning a generator. You can own it, start it and keep it ready for a storm but if you dont load test it you may find out when you really need it that your starting and running it did nothing for you. Diesels like to be put under load. Thats what they are built to do. Low end torque and the power that comes from that. Long distance hauling and the mileage that comes from that. I work from home but live in the burbs of Charlotte. Im 7-10 miles from town but we travel a lot. Im buying the diesel because I know what it affords me. If you dont think you will keep it longer than 3-5 years, tow/haul frequently or your trips are smaller in nature, you would be better off with the gaser. If you plan to offroad it and possibly crawl with it the low end torque will benefit you. If you want it because its cool, its going to cost you a lot more in the end, The upcharge for the diesel at purchase and at the pump wont be worth it for you. Me? If the thing really pulls 7600lbs Im putting it on a RK or Mopar lift, adding some 37s and towing my LJ to every offroad park that I can get to.
 
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kltk1

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THIS....

Diesels like to work. Having had 20+ both work and personal Ford 2500's and Ram 2500's as well as 2 VW TDI's my preference is to own a diesel.

When making your decision you need to weigh the offset. Will you keep it long enough for the premium cost of the diesel to payoff if you arent going to use to to work? By work I mean tow or haul heavy. Its like owning a generator. You can own it, start it and keep it ready for a storm but if you dont load test it you may find out when you really need it that your starting and running it did nothing for you. Diesels like to be put under load. Thats what they are built to do. Low end torque and the power that comes from that. Long distance hauling and the mileage that comes from that. I work from home but live in the burbs of Charlotte. Im 7-10 miles from town but we travel a lot. Im buying the diesel because I know what it affords me. If you dont think you will keep it longer than 3-5 years, tow/haul frequently or your trips are smaller in nature, you would be better off with the gaser. If you plan to offroad it and possibly crawl with it the low end torque will benefit you. If you want it because its cool, its going to cost you a lot more in the end, The upcharge for the diesel at purchase and at the pump wont be worth it for you. Me? If the thing really pulls 7600lbs Im putting it on a RK or Mopar lift, adding some 37s and towing my LJ to every offroad park that I can get to.

I went through this exercise before buying my RAM 1500. If you have a need or a strong desire for a diesel then they're worth it. If not, they're a lot more expensive to purchase and maintain and eat into whatever you might save in fuel. As MoaKane said if you're a long-term owner and/or will be towing a lot then you have plenty of time to get your money's worth. In the end, over the course of 100,000 miles, it's actually thousands of dollars less expensive to own a gasser than a diesel when you figure in the cost of a higher buy-in, higher maintenance costs, DEF, and higher diesel fuel prices. As it tuned out, for my needs, the RAM 1500 with Pentastar V6 was everything I needed and nothing I didn't while saving me, IIRC $3000 over 100,000 miles. $3k is a lot of fuel.
 

RedTRex

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But the torque!!! So 100K miles for me that would be 5 to 7 years worth. At 5 years, that is only what ~ an extra $600 a year....
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