EV - not ready for the masses?

[obrianmcc]

I'm certain the moment is near when we have a rash of Ford Lightnings stuck in camp grounds or on road sides not realizing the reduction in range when towing ... I also recently saw a Rivian on the road ... IMO the front ends are fuggly and it was underwhelming. It reminded me more of a Ridgeline.

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[WILDHOBO]

We have a 4xe wrangler. It's great in that you get the best of both worlds. Lots of power cheap around town, absolutely shit on the highway (13-14mpg) though which is the trade off for having 30+ mpg around town on heavy aggressive 35s with a 2 inch lift, steel bumpers, winch etc.

With that said, I'd not buy a fully electric EV unless it's my spare car just for commuting. For around town up to the 175-225 miles a day they're fantastic, they will fit 90% of the trips people need to do pretty readily. I still need something for the other 10% of the trips where I tow, road trip, or haul things.

Well said. That’s why when we have had one pure EV, we’ve always had the second daily driver as either an extended range electric (Volt), PHEV like the 4xE or many other choices, or a gas vehicle. We can easily use the other for longer drives, while in turn using the EV whenever possible. That offsets the poor economy of our JT in this case.

 

[montechie]

I kinda wonder what will happen when vehicle batteries in EV hits end of life at about 10 years. No one will buy the vehicle due to 10K cost to put in new batteries. You as the owner get the choice of spending 10K on new batteries or getting new car every 10-14 years not by choice.

I had this same concern, but at least for Jeep type tinkerers it's probably less of a problem. I have a friend in town who's replaced his gen 1 Prius battery himself. Kind of a fun project honestly and not that difficult. He's somewhere over 300K, not sure the # of batteries he's replaced.

I'm not a fan of increased lithium mining demand, my family ranch lost cows to oil & gas drilling, other ranches to silver mine run-off. However, lithium recycling has the potential to be extremely efficient and isn't that far out from being economically viable, which in turn will slow increasing the amount of lithium mining needed (ie, Redwood Recycling). Old EV batteries won't be nearly as bad as I was fearing, mining increases is still a concern though when ALL THE THINGS depend on lithium.

Weirdly my two interests for EVs are grocery getting and wheeling. Long range I would stick to a PHEV until the heat issue is solved with truly high-speed charging and rural Montana gets charging infrastructure. When the 4.0 dies in my LJR it's either getting a crate electric motor or getting replaced by a Volcon Stag or Beast and just tow them to distant trails. I've played in someone's home made EV off-roader mini-buggy and the smile factor was very high. I think they used a totaled Leaf for it.

 

[dcmdon]

I certainly won’t argue that PUBLIC charging infrastructure is lacking, and that will take time and money to improve. That makes EV’s and PHEV’s difficult for apartment and condo residents, no question. But people with single family homes can very easily charge at home, with little or no need to charge more than once per day, while they are sleeping. And the costs added to your electric bill are dwarfed by gas prices. Dwarfed. It’s truly minuscule.

I agree with you except for the charging costs. Lets do a comparison.

Lets assume a 35 mile round trip to and from work on a "normal"day.

You have a modern non-plug in hybrid cross over that gets 35 mpg. You burn 1 gallons of fuel at $5/gallon for a daily commute cost of $5

You have a Tesla Model X crossover for the same commute. It It uses about .4 kWh per mile for a total electric use of 14 kwh. At 30 cents per kWh, your total fuel "burn" of $4.20.

So its not much of a delta if you compare with a hybrid.

This is part of the problem with the analysis most people do. They don't compare apples to apples.

Comparing a Gladiator to a Model X is pointless. Compare the Model X to a Rav4 Hybrid and it gets much closer.

Like I said earlier I have a friend who is the ideal BEV owner. Short trips, charges in his attached, heated garage. And I've got an acquaintance who is the WORST use case for a BEV. Parks the car on the street, charges at public charging stations, uses the car for trips greater than 120 miles.

At this point a plug in hybrid (PHEV) is really the best there is.

 

[dcmdon]

PHEV is then perfect. Tons of torque and power, great fuel economy, and zero range anxiety. Our other current vehicle is a plug-in hybrid. It’s great. No gas for in town stuff, fast and powerful, and no range anxiety whatsoever. On long trips it gets around 50mpg. Locally it’s zero emissions, pure electric.

Other than complexity, it doesn't get any better than a PHEV. EV silence around town. Better than gas only fuel economy on long trips.

Fantastic performance all the time.

No range anxiety.

A battery roughly 15% the size of a full PHEV which is good because batteries are horribly filthy to make and the Cobalt used in them is quite literally mined by SLAVES.

 

[dcmdon]

Then towing. Lose 40 percent range from the tow and another 20 percent or more if you do so in the cold. So until they improve that you wont see gas gone for anything superduty level which is construction, farming, recreational, trucking, etc.

Auto makers are close to getting creating batteries that last as long as an internal combustion engine drivetrain.

There are plenty of 300,000 mile Tesla's on the road being used for ride sharing vehicles.

Its all in how the manufacturer writes teh software to manage the battery. Tesla has learned a lot. Many industry analysts say we are 10 years from a MILLION mile battery.

One other thought. I own an old chevy convertible with an old but not original engine. I've been researching putting a new GM crate engine in it. Just for yucks, I researched putting an electric conversion in that would require NO permanent changes to the car.

At current prices $30k gets me 500 hp and 100 miles. Not bad. In 10 years what will those numbers be?? I dont' know. But they will be better.

 

[@californiajeeping]

If you live in California PG&E shuts off your power when the wind blows. Or when they feel like placing political pressure on the governor.

Oh and they regulate your solar permit and limit how much solar you can install limiting the ability to go off grid.

In addition to that the utility costs are outpacing fuel costs .

 

[j.o.y.ride]

Don't forget the fact that our power grid is in no position to allow every household to install the power capability for charging even one EV car. The grids nationwide would be overloaded almost immediately. I'd say there is about 10 years worth of upgrading and boosting up the capabilities of the grid, and I think that estimate is kind. It may be more like 20 years.

Either way, I can't see ever owning an EV vehicle. To me, it's the biggest boondoggle that ever came down the pike. You're burning coal to make that electricity, which is dirtier than the cars that burn gasoline. This is a clear example of people and government not thinking things through.

Power generation varies greatly regionally. In Texas 20% is coal, CA is 0.2%, and WV is 88%.

(edit typo)

 

[j.o.y.ride]

If you live in California PG&E shuts off your power when the wind blows. Or when they feel like placing political pressure on the governor.

Oh and they regulate your solar permit and limit how much solar you can install limiting the ability to go off grid.

In addition to that the utility costs are outpacing fuel costs .

This is not correct, CA as a state does not limit how much solar you can install... there may be limits on how much you can sell back to the power companies, but as a state, nothing about your local install capacity.

 

[Glad_he_ate]

I got a cyber truck on order for 3 years now. I'll keep the jeep also, but I didn't buy it for the climate nonsense and could care less about EVs, I bought it for the autonomous driving. Thats the real future. Uber and lyft have been mapping routes for years so they can dump all the drivers and leave self drivers in the busiest areas. At that point they won't need people to be ready or not, they will set up autonomous charging stations that can be driven into so there will be no human involvement.

Sky net!!!

 

[Glad_he_ate]

So I’d like to do an informal poll in this thread. I’m not trying to start a fight. I’m genuinely interested. How many people that think EVs are not practical/viable, or think charging is more expensive than gas, have owned one? This includes PHEV’s.

I have a 4xe and charge at home, i have perhaps 5 charging stations within 30 miles of my home. 3 of them are broken at any given time. I feel they are completely viable IF every gas station was to put in a charger. For what it’s worth my wife averages about 35mpg driving to work and back with the battery at full charge when she leaves in the morning.
I drive my diesel jt I am averaging 29.3 right now by simply not driving fast… I add roughly 5 min to my commute and add 5 mpg to my average mpg.. I’m driving 122 miles a day. She drives about 50 a day all highway. We simply need more charging stations….

 

[RichDSport]

My Mini SE is a perfect complement to the JT (which continues to get very disappointing fuel mileage.) I can drive around town with both cars for a month without filling up. The Jeep is good for road trips longer than 100 miles. Yes range anxiety is a problem with my car, as it was cheap and is basically a first-generation EV. The ones that are coming out now like the Hyundai Ioniq 5 have over 250 miles of range and can recharge to 80 in under 30 minutes. They don't solve every transportation problem, but the improvements are coming fast and many more people will see them as only-vehicle options. The fast charging network does need to be improved for non-Tesla owners, though.

 

[BA33]

In the Pacific Northwest, something like 2/3 of our electricity is generated via hydro. We also have abundant wind power and even some solar. It's the perfect place for electric or PHEV adoption. On top of that, our electricity rates are the lowest in the country. In addition, at least where I live, our electric supply comes from a public utility.

Battery production will get cleaner and with longer range. Hydrogen will continue to develop. Isn't it Norway that has the "Hydrogen Highway"? More renewable electricity will continue to be generated and the grid will continue to get bolstered and capacity expanded. It will be interesting to see how the next decade plays out.

 

[Mister Lamb]

Idk... Ford's F150 Lightning @ $40K (w/ up to $9k in federal tax credits) is tempting. I don't plan on cross-country trips though

 

[ezekio3160]

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

With a US mix of electricity production by various sources, the Model 3 is already passing the gas Corolla at one year in efficiency.

I’m not a EV hater I just like knowing pros and cons to everything in regards to EV cars. How much contamination will EV cause in the future when battery’s are to be disposed in contrast to ICE cars?

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