Sponsored

Genesis dual battery system - a discussion

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
This thread is to discuss overall the Genesis system, and is due to a question in post # 23,573 found here - https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ning-no-politics.23705/page-1572#post-1132511 by @azmojave

So a quick recap on the Genesis just to lay a foundation for those unaware.
The Genesis system (https://www.genesisoffroad.com/gen3-jt-dual-battery-kit) is a dual battery kit for the JT Gladiator (and they offer for other vehicles also) that eliminates the factory motorcycle style aux battery, and also replaces the primary group 31 battery with two group 25 batteries. In this system, one battery remains the primary vehicle starting battery, and the second is an auxiliary battery. They are connected together via a high amp battery combiner (basically a solenoid that doesn't require constant voltage to close). The programming of the system keeps the two batteries combined when voltages are at or above 12.7, and separates them when voltage of one battery drops below 12.7. This allows the aux battery to power things like a fridge, etc... when the engine is off so you don't discharge the starting battery, and then recombine when the engine is on to recharge the aux - similarly to how the factory aux system works actually. The aux battery connections also include a really nice buss bar that you can connect accessories to. And if you choose the G-Screen you can see battery voltage status in the cab, manually connect/disconnect the combiner, and have a color indicator of the combiner status. This system requires you remove the entire factory battery tray, and replace it with their new unit which is conducive for mounting two group 25 batteries, the combiner, and aux battery lugs. This system does require you reattach the factory aux battery + cable to the primary battery + terminal.

My build thread also includes discussion on the Genesis system, as well as this post - https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/genesis-batteries-lets-do-some-math.62165/ and here https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/three-roads-to-house-power.66527/#post-1091515

Here is a short list of some pro's and con's to the system

PRO
  • removes the factory aux battery from the equation
  • is a clean install with everything you need to work
  • provides a system for a aux battery that is separated from the main battery to prevent main battery drain
    • think of accessories like fridge, water pump, etc...
  • has built in lug's to make easy mounting of accessory cables
  • allows use of AGM batteries which work well in cold rough environments

CON
  • requires removal of factory battery tray and PDC (for those who are unaware this could be problematic if precautions are not taken)
  • uses two group 25 batteries (relatively small)
  • additional weight up front (each battery approx 50 pounds)
  • may require more batteries depending on needs
  • requires use of AGM batteries which are heavier and less capacity typically than lithium options

So I myself got this system because at the time my summer plans included weekend trips with one maybe two nights per trip - this is an important aspect to driving me toward the Genesis system. I also absolutely HATED the idea of the factory aux battery in its designated location, as well as the fact it was tiny and even existed. I have no needs or desires for the ESS system, and that small battery, for me, was only a liability. I also wanted a clean install of whatever system was chosen - and the Genesis provided that. I first did an energy audit to calculate a realistic estimate of power I would need. This is a HUGE variable because different people may have massively different needs. So an energy audit is ALWAYS warranted, even if one thinks their needs are low, include things that might happen in the future just to see where you are currently estimated as compared to what the future potential is.

The genesis system is really slick - it takes old school tech (just linking two AGM batteries together, with the option to disconnect them via a solenoid) and merges it with more modern tech (G-screen, and automated disconnecting at specified voltages). It is well designed and thought out - although this version I have is Gen 3, whereas the previous versions are kinda - ugly to be honest. I would not have purchased the previous versions. This old school tech is not necessarily the 'best' way to go about things, but it is tried and true with known long term issues. One of the major long term issues is reduced battery life. Charging batteries of different capacities or voltage levels can reduce their lifespan - however, likely the battery lifespan is already lower than optimum due to other environmental factors (cold winter temperatures). This is also not to say that any type of dual battery system is 'better' than another. There are a huge number of variables that may make one system style optimum over another - but the term 'best' does not apply here because there is really no 'best' style.

Ok so that out of the way let's get into some more details.
This system uses OEM style AGM batteries. There are SO many on the market. After doing a lot of research myself, I think that full river offers some really excellent options. This system allowed me to retain use of these AGM batteries which is important for me for two reasons. 1) rough roads, nothing new to off-roaders, and 2) cold winter temps. This second reason really is the primary reason for me. After having done an energy audit, and knowing what winter temperatures in my particular location tend to be, I really wanted to stay away from lithium. The reason being is lithium does NOT like cold temperatures. Sure you can utilize their power, but recharging below 40 degrees is not recommended unless there is a method to heat the batteries (which some now offer self heating options). Another reason at the time was cost. The Genesis system came in at a total cost of about $1,600. This included both batteries, the new tray, the guts of the system (combiner and wiring), and the G-screen. It was certainly not cheap by any means - but cheaper than a lot of lithium systems, granted many of those systems had higher capacities. I also was driven this way because according to my energy audit, one 64ah aux battery (included in the system) was sufficient for 24 hours worth of camping with no energy input. And with some solar input, or short drives, that could be extended - and of course for long drives the battery would recharge giving yet another 24 hours.

Now lets dive into some details specific to MY situation
Install of the system went fairly well although I did have a couple of hiccups but nothing major. Once it was installed, the function was exactly as designed. However, here is where I started having issues. My refrigerator, even with overestimating the needed battery capacity, was not able to be ran for a full 24 hours. This was with ambient temperatures outside between 55 and 65 (on some warm days last month), and the freezer set to 20 degrees with the fridge at its pre-determined 34 degrees. This also was with an Engle 45 combi fridge, which typically draws significantly less power than competitors. Even using their specs, and math, I found that real world was not optimum. Granted, I had nothing in the fridge so it was working a little harder than it needed to.

So by this measure, there was no way to run other future items for a night of camping if the fridge alone didn't run a full 24 hours. One caveat - and it is a biggie, is I was also calculating and monitoring to make sure that the aux 64ah battery did not drop below 70% SOC - and there were some other power assumptions that were wrong, so my initial power audit was inaccurate. Now 70% SOC is a well known number for AGM (and led in general) batteries. That is the number to which dropping below, will quickly reduce battery longevity at a significant rate. But, this is also 'old' knowledge. I did end up contacting full river, and found that the recommended DOD level for their FT series batteries is 80% (20% SOC). However, upon reading the specifications, this equates to a more desired 1,000 battery cycles before replacement is necessary. So, I thought - well what would battery longevity be at 500 cycles as 500 cycles equate to being able to drain said battery to 80% DOD. And the answer is 16 years. 16 years of life considering a 'cycle' is draining said battery to X percent. And given I can expect to truly 'cycle' a battery up to 31 times per year (I just calculated the total number of expected days of camping per year), that equates to 16 years. We all know batteries don't last that long anyway.

So, my math needed adjusting. No surprise, after all a lot of educated estimations need to be made here. With the newly adjusted number down to 30% SOC (for a conservative factor) and some increased numbers for amp draw, duty cycles, and ah/hour used, I realized that the 64ah aux battery would not suffice - this was a major estimation mistake. Maybe for 18 hours worth, but not 24. On top of this, at about this time, I realized some opportunities arose to go on three 5-7 day trips this summer - another major decision maker. Thinking that my summers would be restricted to 1-2 nighters quickly changed. And these 5-7 day trips could include up to a full day of not moving, and possibly driving only 4-6 hours the next day. This meant the 64 ah battery was not large enough.

Considering a TON of options, I landed on picking up another AGM battery. I had already considered using the factory group 31 jeep battery in the bed since it was now un-used, but since I needed more power, I opted for a full river DC series 115ah battery. After chatting with an electrical engineer there, I decided to take the risk of pairing a deep cycle AGM at double the capacity, with the 64ah starting battery under the hood. According to their electrical engineer, mixing these two battery capacities despite them also being designed for different uses, will not make a significant and noticeable life reduction. And given the previous math of 500 cycles equaling 16 years, I would be willing to accept a drop to even 250 cycles - which is still a longer mathematically time than the batteries will realistically last anyway. And, after chatting with him I also realized that their FT series of batteries (which includes the 64ah aux) is capable of 80% DOD without significant and immediate damage. So, simply adding in a DC 115ah battery was 'safe'. The one concern I had was how fast that battery would try to recharge, and if my 4ga wire going to the bed for everything would be up to the task. And again, their battery specs suggest a max charge rate of 45 amps, to which my 4ga wire is fused at 100a. So, should be safe.

Now - revisiting the math, with the 64ah FT and 115ah DC batteries combined giving a total of 179ah capacity, with a conservative 70% DOD for a usable amount of 125.3 amps, separated from the FT 64ah starting battery, I can expect up to 1.48 days of use. This was acceptable. Although at the cost of adding a 70 pound battery at $450 to the bed - but pale in comparison to a $2,000 200ah lithium battery.

Now, is when we get into the discussion of "would I do the Genesis system again"
And the answer is a frustratingly "it depends - and I don't really know"

So let's explore quickly what a lithium system would look like now that the Genesis system is explained.
I effectively have currently 125.3 usable ah of battery. So, similarly, I would need 200ah of lithium to be 'equal'. I say equal because I have not seen lithium batteries offered at 64ah, so two 100ah batteries would make it easier to compare despite that adding 21ah of capacity. Lithium batteries are also good to 80% DOD, but my math will calculate to 70% to try and be similar to the current AGM setup. So, except for that 21ah, it is even enough to compare. Looking at my math calculations, 200ah of lithium power would equate to 1.65 days of use. A little more than the 1.48 days with the current AGM setup. But, considering both systems are 'allowed' to a SOC of 30% they are pretty close. Two huge benefits of lithium are 1) it recharges quickly and easily, 2) weight - they are significantly lighter. 200ah of lithium can easily be 70% lighter than the same capacity in AGM. So that is a pretty significant factor especially as these rigs get filled with more and more stuff. I currently have about 170 pounds worth of battery between the two under the hood and the additional DC in the bed.

But, the cost goes up
For example, one self heated 200ah lithium I just looked at is $1,900 bucks. And you still need, at the minimum, a DC/DC charger for which RedArc offers a very basic option that can charge at a 20a rate and accept a solar input, which costs $375. This would take 8 hours to recharge at said 20 ah rate. Or with a more robust 50 amp system it would take only 3.2 hours - however, a 50 amp system can easily cost $800 bucks not to mention needing more robust wire than I currently have, and a more advanced system that people gravitate to is about $1,500. So for a good 200ah lithium system you are looking at a minimum of $2,700. And you still need more components - wire, switches, etc. However considering in my specific system it is designed to be 100% modular, I can easily buy just the battery and DC/DC and make it function the same as it is now. So those other component costs are negligible. By comparison, by adding the third battery in the bed, the Genesis system (excluding the same electrical stuff that is needed for the fridge, switch, etc..) came in at about $2,100. The Genesis itself was $1,600, then adding a FR DC series 115ah battery at a little under 500 bucks brings it to just over $2,000.

There is still a problem though
With temperatures. Let me explain. AGM batteries are fine with temps. Of course overheating them is bad like with any, but for cold temps, they have to be literally frozen (which mean they would be close to depleted) or in some crazy -50 degree temp to have issues recharging (according to their electrical engineer). I dont think anybody would be camping then... Anyway, lithium is much more sensitive to temperatures. Really, charging them below 40 degrees is not good. So most of the self heating batteries turn on their heating element at 40, or is it 35... eh anyway those have a cool function. But here is the problem with that. It uses power. Right? So if you calculated your needs and found that you need 200ah of capacity, well you need additional capacity now to factor in the self heating function. So suddenly the $1,900 battery suddenly jumps to probably something like $2,400 bucks. So more cost. More cost to ensure you don't loose ah capacity for your 200ah need. Now we also need to consider when one is not camping. If your truck (like me) is sitting at home for 2 weeks in -25 degree temps in the winter, one of two things happen. 1) you pull the batteries and bring them inside and place on a battery tender, or 2) you plug them into a battery tender when outside - making sure said tender provides enough amperage to not let the batteries drain when their self heating function turns on. Option 1 for me is a no go. For me the whole point is to make a system that does not need constant loading/unloading.. I also do not have a garage. My jeep is already plugged in for a 15a CTEK charger/tender to maintain the start battery, because sitting for 14 days or more/or less at -25 degrees will cause battery charge loss. So now I need two plugs going to the jeep? I'm sure that there is a way to, oh I dont' know, have the DC/DC charger turn on when the tender for the AGM batteries is functional - but now were adding more complications....and more money.

The verdict
It is still out - honestly. Because there are SO many compromises, and one compromise of one system means X is needed or lost, while a compromise of the other system means XX is needed or lost. For example, the charging/tender example just given. I will say I like the current setup of AGM batteries because it (in theory) is enough power to do what I need. But I really DO NOT like the weight. It is an excessive amount of weight, and weight for me is already a major concern - fully loaded I am over axle weights. So going lithium could mean reducing weight easily by 75 pounds, maybe more. But at the cost of $$$$ and more complexity. I like the idea of lithium because of the relative fast recharge rate, and the light weight - but I really don't want to spend $3,000 on a lithium system when I already have spent about 2K on the current.

So what really needs to happen, for me, now, is to test the current system. I need more data points, and I already have the current system installed and working. I need to know how long the fridge will actually last - this coming weekend we supposedly are going to have temps in the high 60's, so I should be able to get a better feel for temps and run time as compared to trying to test when it's only 40 out which is not realistic. I also need to see charge rates. I really don't know what to expect, aside from documented specifications, what amp draw the aux batteries will have when depleted and how fast/slow they will recharge. Will they only draw 50 amps for maybe an hour? Or will they try to draw 200 amps and blow my fuse? (that is an exaduration of course). But that matters, because the 4ga wire that goes to the bed to run my fridge, is the same wire that would recharge the additional battery in the bed, and also the same wire that would be used to run the ARB dual air compressor. So if I start the engine, drive back to the highway, and need to air up while at the same time charging that battery in the bed, I can easily pull 100 amps or more depending on how much power that battery wants to take. I 'think' it will be ok, but only testing and checking temps of the wire with a laser gun will verify. And also, how long will it take to recharge? Will that 115ah battery in the bed recharge to 100% in 4 hours? Or will it require a 16 hour drive, or sitting overnight on the CTEK 15a charger to fully recharge? And how will that recharge rate affect camping? Obviously if it recharges in 4 hours, I can go for a drive and be good for camping for another 24 hours. If it needs 16 hours, then there is going to be a problem as it would mean I realistically only have just over a day's worth of camping before it needs to sit on the charger - because driving 16 hours every 24 hours is not feasible. But again, what is my use case? Which is the most important factor - are these three 5-7 day trips going to happen every year, or just this summer alone? What about the other 1 night camping trips where the current battery amount is sufficient (by calculation).

These are all questions that need answering in order to determine and decide would I do it again. And if anyone has answers to those questions I am all ears.

To sum it up
If you have the money, and don't live where I live and experience sub zero temps for 4 months at a time in winter, then going lithium is clearly the winner - simply due to it's weight, and relatively short recharge time compared to AGM. However, if you live in Montana or somewhere else that gets very cold, don't want to constantly remove the batteries from the truck in winter, or have a heated garage, or don't have the money for lithium and don't care about the weight - then yes I would do the system again.

Looking back - I would try and find a way to charge both AGM and lithium batteries at the same time with one on board charger (like how my CTEK is currently) from one extension cord. If I could find a way to make that work, then I would have deleted the factory aux, put in a full river full throttle group 31 in replacement of the factory MOPAR group 31 under the hood, and found a suitable 200ah lithium/LiFePo4 for the bed to be paired with a 50a DC/DC and upgrade from 4ga wire running to the bed to 2ga wire. The really tough situation for me specifically is the winter temperatures - and not wanting to be unloading batteries all the time.

I certainly hope this helps a few folks understand the pro's and con's of the Genesis and helps them decide which way is best for them. There is no 'best' answer because each option has its own compromises and benefits.
Sponsored

 

Maximus Gladius

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kevin
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Threads
40
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
1,990
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Vehicle(s)
2021 Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Construction, Gold Mining, Surface Engineer
Hookie Dina man, what a read! You don’t get much sleep I’ll bet. I’m just going to speak what my first thought is and hopefully it helps. Kinda like when your physiologist holds up a card and instructs you to say the first thing that’s in there…

So from my understanding, you hate the little a$$ battery and you live where it gets real cold, and weight is a big concern because you’re already too heavy when loaded up for camping. I’m positive I’m missing more points here but you’ve held up the card and I’ll say the first thing.

Get rid of the aux battery, get a bigger main battery and a stronger, larger solar charger system. That was it. How did I do?
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
Hookie Dina man, what a read! You don’t get much sleep I’ll bet. I’m just going to speak what my first thought is and hopefully it helps. Kinda like when your physiologist holds up a card and instructs you to say the first thing that’s in there…

So from my understanding, you hate the little a$$ battery and you live where it gets real cold, and weight is a big concern because you’re already too heavy when loaded up for camping. I’m positive I’m missing more points here but you’ve held up the card and I’ll say the first thing.

Get rid of the aux battery, get a bigger main battery and a stronger, larger solar charger system. That was it. How did I do?
It wasn't so much for my benefit but rather to answer a question and provide info for the forum. There really isn't a way to just use a larger battery under the hood unless I remove the Genesis system and go back to stock - which would mean one single battery instead of 2. It only accepts two Group 25 batteries. I suppose it could be possible to fabricate something that allows the use of a group 31 in the genesis tray, but I dont have fabrication tools or equipment. And that would kinda get rid of the purpose anyway, unless you put two of the DC115 batteries in the bed instead of just one. But then you are increasing weight even more and at that point it makes more sense to go lithium if one can keep them warm at -30 degrees.

As for me, I already have it installed and paid for so I am going to use it to see how it all works. If it works great, then perfect. If not then I will adjust and probably move to lithium and shell out $$$$$$$. But no sense making another change before testing - the current setup might work perfectly.

Solar is an option and I purposefully put in a port for one in the event I want to add that later on.
 

Maximus Gladius

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kevin
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Threads
40
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
1,990
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Vehicle(s)
2021 Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Construction, Gold Mining, Surface Engineer
It wasn't so much for my benefit but rather to answer a question and provide info for the forum.
You certainly did that sir and it answered questions I hadn't formulated yet but certainly would have. I am currently making use of a AGM battery tender I plug into 1 - 2 times a week through the night...in a heated garage ... and the wife saw the hood up the other day and said I had to do something about that cause we never had to do this with any of our many cars and trucks during our 34 years together and I said "its a jeep thang and cheap insurance that the truck will work when we aren't home."

She said "FIX IT!" I said "yes dear" and have been revisiting the Genesis battery system thought processes again.

I want lithium but then I'd be taking more away from FCA that now can't find enough and I don't want them pointing at me that I took the last supply of it and camping in -30 is not on my bucket list so I don't think I need to worry about hauling them into my sleeping bag. There's already too much sparks in there.
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
taking more away from FCA that now can't find enough and I don't want them pointing at me that I took the last supply of it and camping in -30 is not on my bucket list so I don't think I need to worry about hauling them into my sleeping bag
I was actually just about to do an additional quick post on lithium. in the mean time, check out post #24 - this is what I did for my charging method. To charge, and to tend for when I dont drive the jeep for several weeks since my commute is literally 1 mile. This might give you a couple ideas

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/destination-unknown-2022-jtr-journal.66430/page-2
 

Sponsored

OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
Ok. So let's talk lithium real quick then. Before I do, if you haven't already, probably would be a good idea to go look at post #63 of my build (https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/destination-unknown-2022-jtr-journal.66430/page-5) to see these calculations I have mentioned in post # 1 above.

To make it simple we will just assume a need of 200ah. Now that could be WAY overkill for many, but to try and compare like power amounts, and cost, we will assume 200 ah.

If a person wanted to go lithium, if it were me, I would want it to be a high quality system, like how the Genesis is. Clean, all encompassing, modular, with options, etc......

For that there is really only one way to go. The Manager 30. This is a high quality system, that has a relatively small footprint. Victron energy is also a great company that makes excellent products, but for something similar, it would be more complex, take up more space, and just not look as seamless.

Manager 30 - https://www.redarcelectronics.com/us/the-manager30-with-color-screen


For this system you also need heated batteries of course (assuming winters get below 40 degrees in your location), so you have several options available. Two easy to find ones are battle born and antigravity. I dont really know anything about either company, except that antigravity has kinda misled people in some false advertising. If you have read other posts on this forum you willl know what I mean but basically they advertise a direct replacement of a starting battery with lithium - however after contacting them to discuss the battery specifics and internals they came back saying lithium will not work since the Jeep charges for an AGM profile. So who knows how good, or bad, their lithium product's are. But anyway, their options are as follows:


Battleborn 200ah heated battery - https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-heated-battery-kit/
Antigravity 200ah heated battery - https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/energy-storage/dc-200h/

I chose not to include links to Renogy batteries as I recently heard from someone who does these builds on a very regular basis, that Renogy products have been failing after a very short time of use.

Now right off the bat something important needs to be considered. Cost - its big. The manager 30 comes in at $1,752 (they do have another option for $1,476) The antigravity 200ah battery comes in at $1,900 whereas battle born requires two 100ah batteries totaling to $1,748.

This nets a grand total of $3,652 not including wiring, etc... Since my wiring is already in place, I will forgo that discussion (although if I went lithium with the manager 30 I would probably up my wires from under the hood to 2ga in order to handle the 40 amp draw of the manager 30 along with 50 amp draw of the compressor to air tires up after a night of camping.

So, compared to the Genesis system, plus the additional battery in the bed that I now have, that is $1,452 MORE than the genesis system. That is a significant additional cost - and a cost for a system that is relatively un-tested in -30 degree temperatures. This does not include the additional group 31 battery (probably $450) you would have to put under the hood if you opted to remove the factory MOPAR battery - which as indicated by @ShadowsPapa in another thread, is not of the greatest quality.

So what do you get with that added cost? Well you have a system that is overall approximately 45 pounds lighter than the Genesis - 2 group 25 batteries and a DC115 in the bed like I currently have, charges many times faster than AGM, and has a DOD rate at or higher than 80%.

If going lithium, I would specifically choose the manager 30 for several reasons, but the primary reason being it accepts input from alternator charging, solar panels, as well as AC input. If you recall previously I mentioned I already have a CTEK 15a charger/tender to maintain my AGM batteries. However, with the additional lithium batteries, one would need to find a way to also charge said lithium batteries when parked for extended periods and in winter. Well with a dedicated AC input for the manager 30, one can use a simple and typical 110v splitter so that both the 15a CTEK charger and manager 30 receive 110v power, to charge each respective battery type.

This would be the slickest method to accomplish having all the advantages of lithium, maintain that they are warm enough during months long of sub zero temperatures, and only have one extension cord going to the vehicle.

But the downside, cost, is still a huge factor. At over $1,500 more than the Genesis system, it is significant. Shelling out $1,750 bucks, and then another $450 for the DC115 was tough enough for the Genesis, but saving up to shell out over $3K at once, when that costs more Than a good handful of lifts and recovery gear? - well, that is one big reason I did not go that route right away in hopes the Genesis would suffice. Obviously, the Genesis itself is not enough that I added another battery.

But - as seen above, depending on your individual use case, you might need that much power. Matt at Ozark Overland Adventures has 200ah of lithium, and he mostly just runs his refrigerator. I would be scared to ask how much battery capacity the guys at X-Overland plan for - I bet they are pushing at least 400ah of lithium per vehicle.
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
Here are a couple more screenshots to compare with the one referenced to above. Note the differences.

Heater removed from equation
Jeep Gladiator Genesis dual battery system - a discussion Screenshot 2023-04-23 at 17.44.12


Heater and lights removed from equation (why not, I have a new Coleman LED lantern that is super cool)
Jeep Gladiator Genesis dual battery system - a discussion Screenshot 2023-04-23 at 17.43.36


Everything except fridge removed from equation - which is what most people really care about anyway. Charge things when your driving....
Jeep Gladiator Genesis dual battery system - a discussion Screenshot 2023-04-23 at 17.43.48


Fridge - largest draw - removed from equation
Jeep Gladiator Genesis dual battery system - a discussion Screenshot 2023-04-23 at 17.46.47
 

bd100

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2022
Threads
27
Messages
516
Reaction score
485
Location
USA Midwest
Vehicle(s)
JT, WK2, ole' Ram
Looks like your fridge is in the bed? If you had a trailer I'd recommend a propane powered fridge.
 

Beemer533

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zion
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
13
Messages
620
Reaction score
699
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 JT Mojave
Occupation
Field Engineer
I've been quite happy with my renogy setup so far. I guess I haven't had it long enough (I installed it last August) to speak to longevity, but so far so good.

I'm running the dcs-50 DC-DC charger and I originally had bought a used 40ah lifepo4 battery on ebay.
I also have the renogy 175 watt flexible panel on my roof.

I was able to get about 10-12 hours runtime on my dometic cfx-55lm, depending on the exterior temperature. The pv panel may have helped, but I generally didn't stop for the night until the sun was very low, so it probably wasn't much of a factor.
I did have one night where the fridge died at some point, but I had forgotten to turn off the ice maker after getting to camp, so that wasn't too surprising.

I don't do winter camping really, so temps under 40 aren't a concern at this point.

I recently just picked up a new renogy 100ah lifepo4 battery (unheated) to replace my 40ah battery, so I should be able to to comfortably be able to not drive for a day and keep the fridge running, especially with my 175 watt panel.

I've also got the Genesis system (v3) that I recently installed due to some other oem battery issues. I did have 2 sets of oem batteries replaced under warranty, but the last go around I said screw it and put in the Genesis system.
I figured out afterwards that my most recent issues were caused by the head unit I had installed (the first 2 sets of batteries were defective, the dealer did not find any issues with the truck or my add-ons at that point) that had developed a large drain and was killing my starting battery almost every night for a couple of weeks before I sorted it out.

I'm happy to have the aux battery gone, but I'm not sure I would have done it... It will be nice to have the additional capacity though. My fridge will basically be the only thing on my lifepo4 battery and all my lights and misc accessories will be on the aux agm battery.
 

HooliganActual

Well-Known Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
2,249
Location
10 miles from the Sun
Vehicle(s)
2020 Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Retired
I chose not to include links to Renogy batteries as I recently heard from someone who does these builds on a very regular basis, that Renogy products have been failing after a very short time of use.
FWIW (and this is more for everyone else and not directed at the OP),
I have personally running Renogy products for a while now and not had any issues with premature failures. And for those familiar with Dan Grec of TheRoadChoseMe, he ran a Renogy system for 18 months around Australia without any complaints.

Nothing against any of the other battery, charger, etc. companies out there, but there is always a lack of love for Renogy products (even Chuck Cassady of YT hates their products). The lack of love always seems to be anecdotal reasons but I don't know people's real reasons, obviously.

Suffice to say, my experience with Renogy products is favorable and their cost is fractional. I believe they ship out of California (for US consumers, at least) and since I'm in AZ, I usually gets stuff in 3-4 days.

EDIT: Otherwise, nice write up OP
 

Sponsored

Beemer533

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zion
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
13
Messages
620
Reaction score
699
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 JT Mojave
Occupation
Field Engineer
FWIW (and this is more for everyone else and not directed at the OP),
I have personally running Renogy products for a while now and not had any issues with premature failures. And for those familiar with Dan Grec of TheRoadChoseMe, he ran a Renogy system for 18 months around Australia without any complaints.

Nothing against any of the other battery, charger, etc. companies out there, but there is always a lack of love for Renogy products (even Chuck Cassady of YT hates their products). The lack of love always seems to be anecdotal reasons but I don't know people's real reasons, obviously.

Suffice to say, my experience with Renogy products is favorable and their cost is fractional. I believe they ship out of California (for US consumers, at least) and since I'm in AZ, I usually gets stuff in 3-4 days.

EDIT: Otherwise, nice write up OP
Yeah, I've been happy with my Renogy stuff so far..

I definitely looked at Red arc and victron but I couldn't justify the price.
 

keithcroshaw

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
139
Reaction score
95
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
JT Sport S
Gotta just slap one of these babies in there. I do like the idea of running the vehicle's 12V without draining my starting battery but whew that's commitment. Not sure if your post addresses this but the Jeep always wants to turn off all the 12V stuff after a minute anyway, so that's another reason I don't like the built in electrical. I do understand the aux switches can be programmed to be always on which is nice, too bad those bed lights can't be switched in the software to be always on togglable with that button in the cab.

Edit: Yes I see you've got big batteries there. I don't know I need a little more than the little one in my picture like a Delta but the little Ecoflow Max I have does a pretty good job.

Edit2: I see the mention of cold being a reason for going with AGM. I know some lithium players are going with built in battery heaters that draw very little current, but I get the desire for AGM in that respect. At least I can take this little battery in the tent with me and cuddle with it to keep it warm while the deisel heater chugs along and then the diesel gels up and I just say screw it I'm going home.

Great work though!

Jeep Gladiator Genesis dual battery system - a discussion 1682612282376
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
Gotta just slap one of these babies in there. I do like the idea of running the vehicle's 12V without draining my starting battery but whew that's commitment. Not sure if your post addresses this but the Jeep always wants to turn off all the 12V stuff after a minute anyway, so that's another reason I don't like the built in electrical. I do understand the aux switches can be programmed to be always on which is nice, too bad those bed lights can't be switched in the software to be always on togglable with that button in the cab.

Edit: Yes I see you've got big batteries there. I don't know I need a little more than the little one in my picture like a Delta but the little Ecoflow Max I have does a pretty good job.

Edit2: I see the mention of cold being a reason for going with AGM. I know some lithium players are going with built in battery heaters that draw very little current, but I get the desire for AGM in that respect. At least I can take this little battery in the tent with me and cuddle with it to keep it warm while the deisel heater chugs along and then the diesel gels up and I just say screw it I'm going home.

Great work though!

Jeep Gladiator Genesis dual battery system - a discussion 1682612282376
power stations really are the easiest way to go so long as they provide enough power. I thought about it but just didnt want to constantly move things around.


Looks like your fridge is in the bed? If you had a trailer I'd recommend a propane powered fridge.
mine is yes. The last propane fridge I had was in my travel trailer and it never worked good and almost set the trailer on fire.


FWIW (and this is more for everyone else and not directed at the OP),
I have personally running Renogy products for a while now and not had any issues with premature failures. And for those familiar with Dan Grec of TheRoadChoseMe, he ran a Renogy system for 18 months around Australia without any complaints.

Nothing against any of the other battery, charger, etc. companies out there, but there is always a lack of love for Renogy products (even Chuck Cassady of YT hates their products). The lack of love always seems to be anecdotal reasons but I don't know people's real reasons, obviously.

Suffice to say, my experience with Renogy products is favorable and their cost is fractional. I believe they ship out of California (for US consumers, at least) and since I'm in AZ, I usually gets stuff in 3-4 days.

EDIT: Otherwise, nice write up OP
great to hear some positive feedback about them. I have been looking at their 100ah heated batteries. Too bad their large 200ah battery isnt hested though
 

HooliganActual

Well-Known Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
2,249
Location
10 miles from the Sun
Vehicle(s)
2020 Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Retired
Too bad their large 200ah battery isnt hested though
One option around that is a tank heater pad. I follow a couple of skoolie channels and a pretty popular workaround I see them do a lot is to buy something like the RecPro Tank Heater (lots of options) that do the job just fine but are a fraction of the markup to a heated battery.
 
OP
OP
chorky

chorky

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chad
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
2,979
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Montana
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'06 TJ GE, '22 JTR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Forester
One option around that is a tank heater pad. I follow a couple of skoolie channels and a pretty popular workaround I see them do a lot is to buy something like the RecPro Tank Heater (lots of options) that do the job just fine but are a fraction of the markup to a heated battery.
It would also be good to consider how much power those heaters draw. Going camping is one thing but sitting outside for 2 weeks at a time in winter temps well below 0 would have me questioning how it would hold up or if it would drain its power to self heat. That is a pretty big factor and vairable.
Sponsored

 
 



Top