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Gladiator Charge Algorithm

Flanders

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I’ve seen indications that my Jeep’s charging algorithm is shit but this surprised me. Sometimes it doesn't even try.

After an hour on the trail yesterday I aired up from the battery with the engine off. This would have used less than 3Ah. Then I drove home. The charge controller had a chance to push a lot of current through the battery during the 6-minute 550-foot engine braking descent but the dash showed 12.8V the whole time.

Once home I immediately put a lab power supply on it at 13.8V. The battery took 24A – the power supply’s max – for a minute or two. It was still taking 8A about 10 minutes later when I finished topping up the tires. It took over 3.6Ah before the current had tapered below 100mA (less than 90 minutes total).

I've abused the batteries on other vehicles a lot more than that and never seen one fail to mostly recharge within a few minutes driving. I once turned on headlights and all accessories for 30 minutes on an Escalade that had been parked outside overnight on a 20 degree F morning, drove it a couple of miles to the gas station then plugged a charger in it at home and it only needed 1Ah or so.

It's no wonder the batteries fail on these things all the time.

In response to the obvious questions:
  • It was fully charged at the start of the trip.
  • All connections go through the chassis ground. I never blind charge/discharge it.
  • The IBS has never been disconnected.
  • The Viair 400P specifies 30A max but I measure ~21.5A at 12.6V inflating a tire at around 30psi. I run it for 2 minutes per tire, enough to get from 20 to a little over 30psi for the highway. 8 minutes total run time at 21.5A = 2.87Ah.
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kevman65

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Fully disconnect and separate the leads on main battery and leave it that way for 30 minutes or more. Force it to relearn.
 
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Flanders

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Fully disconnect and separate the leads on main battery and leave it that way for 30 minutes or more. Force it to relearn.
There's no need for all of that. If the point is to disconnect the electrical system entirely one can simply disconnect the main chassis ground. To reset only the IBS just unplug it.

But what exactly would that accomplish? I need to see if it's reproducible before doing anything. Otherwise I won't know when or if it's fixed.

There's no reason that anything should need to be reset. There shouldn't be a logic state in which it doesn't, immediately after a 3Ah discharge from the main battery, trigger charging, especially when charging is free, i.e., engine braking on a long downhill. Instead it held it at 12.8V as if the battery were fully charged.

The JT charge controller always leaves it a little undercharged, even after driving it 3 hours a day every day for a week. Not hugely, but consistently, 1Ah low. It's not cumulative. It's probably by design to slightly undercharge rather than risk overcharging.
 

Mr._Bill

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The system also takes temperature into consideration when making charging decisions.

The JT has a fairly high parasitic draw, especially with a cellular equipped head unit. The computers don't turn off. The batteries start to discharge as soon as the engine shuts down.
 
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Flanders

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The system also takes temperature into consideration when making charging decisions.
don't turn off.
Indeed. I neglected to mention the outside temperature was around 20C. An IR gun on the main battery showed 31.5C on the engine side and 26C on the front (windward) side, immediately before charging. The IBS would have read the temperature of the negative post, closer to the 26C. No excuse not to charge.

12.8V is not going to charge the battery at any temperature. The resting voltage is higher than that.

The JT has a fairly high parasitic draw, especially with a cellular equipped head unit.
I don't see it. Mine takes about 330mAh of charge per day of sitting. That's about 0.4% of the 87Ah capacity per day. I've also measured current with a DMM consistent with that.

We've had this exchange before. What do you consider high?

The batteries start to discharge as soon as the engine shuts down.
It was off for maybe 5 minutes.
 

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RJ McAuliffe

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I’ve seen indications that my Jeep’s charging algorithm is shit but this surprised me. Sometimes it doesn't even try.

After an hour on the trail yesterday I aired up from the battery with the engine off. This would have used less than 3Ah. Then I drove home. The charge controller had a chance to push a lot of current through the battery during the 6-minute 550-foot engine braking descent but the dash showed 12.8V the whole time.
I had similar condition and could not diagnose it myself. Dealership swapped out the IBS completely - and that solved it. It was the IBS - not the batteries.
 

Mr._Bill

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If you started the trip with fully charged batteries then the 12.8 system voltage is considered normal. The alternator output is varied based on demand.
 
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Flanders

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If you started the trip with fully charged batteries then the 12.8 system voltage is considered normal. The alternator output is varied based on demand.
I see you didn't read what you've responded to.
 

Mr._Bill

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I see you didn't read what you've responded to.
I read everything you posted. I don't see what the problem is. You said you started the trip with fully charged batteries and are complaining because you didn't see the system voltage read above12.8 volts. A fully charged AGM battery should read 12.8 volts at rest with no load attached. The charging algorithm in the JT is setup for AGM batteries. It will not overcharge the batteries. The output from the alternator is varied based on demand and the parameters programmed into the charging system.
 
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Flanders

Flanders

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I read everything you posted. I don't see what the problem is. You said you started the trip with fully charged batteries and are complaining because you didn't see the system voltage read above12.8 volts.
Nope. Perhaps it's my fault for being including too much detail.

I started the trip fully charged and got home to find the battery 4% low.
 

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Mr._Bill

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Nope. Perhaps it's my fault for being including too much detail.

I started the trip fully charged and got home to find the battery 4% low.
The algorithm and parameters used for the JT charging system have not been made available to the public, that I'm aware of. I'm guessing that 4% down is not enough for it to up the voltage and start charging.
 
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Flanders

Flanders

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The algorithm and parameters used for the JT charging system have not been made available to the public, that I'm aware of. I'm guessing that 4% down is not enough for it to up the voltage and start charging.
That would be a shit charging algorithm for a battery chemistry that needs to be held near 100% to avoid permanent damage.
 
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Flanders

Flanders

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I had similar condition and could not diagnose it myself. Dealership swapped out the IBS completely - and that solved it. It was the IBS - not the batteries.
I think you are right.

Symptom: Jeep fails to charge battery after discharge

Steps to reproduce:
  1. Discharge battery about 7Ah by turning headlights on for 32.6 minutes
  2. Drive for one hour
Expected result: Battery mostly recharged
Observed result: Battery 5.5Ah low

Notes:
  • Voltage came up to around 14.4 when engine braking.
  • Otherwise it held at 12.8V, i.e., not charging.
  • Battery accepted 5.5Ah in 90 minutes at 13.8V, immediately after driving.
  • Halogen headlights and everything that turns on with them draw about 12.8A.
  • Headlights auto-off is 489 seconds. Why? Discharge was 4 cycles of this.
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