Help with finding a relay.

[Puch]

Long story short, I’m trying to troubleshoot a turn signal problem. Signals work but I get bulb out error for both front turns. I noticed what sounds like a relay in the fuse block, switching on and off while the directionals are flashing. Yes, I know this is normal, but I can’t figure out which relay it is? Non are labeled “flashers”. I pulled out all that I was comfortable testing with power on but no luck locating it. It almost sounds like the relay is inside the fuse block. Anyone have suggestions?

 

[Mr._Bill]

Have you made any changes, like halogen to LED?
Is it still in warranty?

 

[Puch]

Have you made any changes, like halogen to LED?
Is it still in warranty?

Yes. I swapped to LED’s and a fender chop and used a programmer. I recently changed back to standard bulbs and removed the programer after resetting to stock. However, I was also having weird things going on for the past few months.
for example. I would have the turn signal on (this is when the LEDs were installed and programmer) and I would occasionally hear a warning chime ding once, but there wasn’t any error messages on the dash. Fast forward, I replaced my fenders with the new Quadratec fenders and went back to standard bulbs. After having these problems I tried going back to LED and still get the error. So basically, I get the error message no matter what bulbs I use use now.
The dealership wants to charge me 500 to troubleshoot it. If it ends up being warranty issue they won’t charge me 500. Unfortunately he kept mentioning that I have aftermarket fenders and equipment. To me, it sounds like they are covering their ass so they can come back and say “500+ please, you damaged shit putting aftermarket stuff on”. I can’t piss away 500 on the chance that it’s covered by warranty.

 

[Mr._Bill]

It could be something you can fix with Jscan, a setting for the lights. There are some other threads on similar problems. If they can tie it to the non-factory equipment, in any way, they won't cover it under warranty.

 

[ecidiego]

It's possible your program has turned on front left and right diagnostics as well as front turnlamp diagnostics

 

[Puch]

It's possible your program has turned on front left and right diagnostics as well as front turnlamp diagnostics

Well that’s cool. How do I turn it off?

 

[ecidiego]

Well that’s cool. How do I turn it off?

What are you using? AlfaOBD? Jscan?

 

[Puch]

It could be something you can fix with Jscan, a setting for the lights. There are some other threads on similar problems. If they can tie it to the non-factory equipment, in any way, they won't cover it under warranty.

The fact that both front directionals are wacky makes me think something is physically wrong. Bad ground, pinched wire, bad relay….
Also, as I mentioned, I was having weird warning chime go off once in a while and now I get the bulb out error with standard or led bulbs and with or without the programmer ( flash cal). That’s why I’m trying to find if it has a flasher relay. I can hear it in or around the fuse box, but can’t find it. It’s not labeled on the fuse cover. I’ll replace that for a couple bucks, if I still have problems, I’ll continue tracing wires.

 

[Puch]

What are you using? AlfaOBD? Jscan?

I was using Super chips flashcal.

 

[ecidiego]

0 clue on that one. Does it have the ability to read out all of the settings in the BCM? Can it search for parameters? Scan codes?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The fact that both front directionals are wacky makes me think something is physically wrong. Bad ground, pinched wire, bad relay….
Also, as I mentioned, I was having weird warning chime go off once in a while and now I get the bulb out error with standard or led bulbs and with or without the programmer ( flash cal). That’s why I’m trying to find if it has a flasher relay. I can hear it in or around the fuse box, but can’t find it. It’s not labeled on the fuse cover. I’ll replace that for a couple bucks, if I still have problems, I’ll continue tracing wires.

Grounds are independent for each corner. There's a LF ground, RF ground, LR ground and so on. In fact some connectors have 2 grounds in them indicating a ground for turn signal, a ground for marker, and so on.
Gone are the days of 4 lights running through a single ground wire for all of them - but, they do often tie to a common point. But those points also typically handle more than just the turn signals, meaning that if the major ground is bad, it would likely impact more than front turn signals.
Also - a ground would cause them to not function.
I tend to agree with what's already posted - you need to go through the settings and look for the issue. That's the advantage of software over a "device" that does things for you - not always easy to undo all of the things they do.

 

[billfraley]

You will want to turn off the diagnostics and May need to use some resistors to create the expected load for the BCM.

if you turn off the diagnostics, it may take a couple of key cycles to have the change take effect.

 

[Puch]

You will want to turn off the diagnostics and May need to use some resistors to create the expected load for the BCM.

if you turn off the diagnostics, it may take a couple of key cycles to have the change take effect.

Ecidiego mentioned that too. Unfortunately, I don’t know how it would have gone into diagnostics or how to get out of diagnostics? Are you talking about diagnostics on the programer? I’m getting really confused.

 

[ecidiego]

Ecidiego mentioned that too. Unfortunately, I don’t know how it would have gone into diagnostics or how to get out of diagnostics? Are you talking about diagnostics on the programer? I’m getting really confused.

There are 3 settings for the front turns that are configurable in the BCM that are set to Yes on factory LED trucks:

CBC Config I/O Usage: Left Front Lamp Diagnostics Present - Pin F25: Yes
CBC Config I/O Usage: Right Front Lamp Diagnostics Present - Pin F28: Yes
CBC Extern.Light Calibr.: Front Turn Lamps Diagnostics: Yes

**only** trucks that came from the factory with LEDs up front have this set. If you add OEM LEDs to a truck that originally had halogen, you leave these set to No or you'll have hyperflash/bulb out errors. If you add aftermarket LEDs to a truck that originally had LEDs, you need to set them to No.

The problem with some programmers is, they batch/macro things. So you set "LEDS On" and they turn on everything related including those diagnostics settings. The truck is expecting a reading that it is not getting.

 

[billfraley]

Ecidiego mentioned that too. Unfortunately, I don’t know how it would have gone into diagnostics or how to get out of diagnostics? Are you talking about diagnostics on the programer? I’m getting really confused.

These vehicles, like most modern vehicles, use a data bus to monitor circuits. This is called CANBUS. When a circuit is detected as out of spec, based on programming in the BCM(body control module), the diagnostic results in the bulb out message you see in the cluster. In some cases, turning off the diagnostic for this circuit can avoid the message. This is done by using software to program the BCM. I am not sure if flashcal has this capability. There are two other options for handling this situation. Both will require a bypass cable for the OBD port, a bluetooth or USB OBD connection device and a software component running on your phone.

The most popular way to connect is with a bluetooth OBD device. OBDLINK MX+ is the most popular, but there are others that work and are less expensive.

The bypass cable plugs in place of the Secure Gateway and allows you to make changes to the BCM without needing to decode the encryption put in place by Jeep for OBD connections. I am not sure if the FLASHCAL device already includes a bypass setup.

There are two software options available:

JScan, which requires a per VIN license fee
AlfaOBD has a onetime license fee for the app

Either of these options will work but the interface for each is very different.

If all of this sounds like too much, I believe you can also use a Tazer to bypass the error altogether. I am not a fan of Tazer as it must always be plugged in and the software options are more flexible and get updated regularly.

I have been using a bluetooth OBD diagnostic device and software tools for nearly a decade now. AlfaOBD is common for most FCA vehicles. I have only started messing with JScan since buying the Gladiator last year. They both have their pros and cons. AlfaOBD being capable of handling any number of vehicles, after the initial app cost, is a big deal for someone who has already purchased it. JScan is less to license for a single VIN, but after three it will be just as costly as AlfaOBD.

There is a ton of information about both apps on the internet. If you plan to make additional changes to your vehicle that may require BCM programming, they are worth the cost.

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