Looking for Input

[NinjaBeard]

Hey everyone!

Its just about getting time for me to start getting serious about some upgrades and an engine swap is on the table. Its not happening right this second, but its on the "to-do" in the next year or two. I have a couple of options that I'm considering and wanted to get yalls input on it.

I have a 2020 sport, right now the only mods are a 4" Skyjacker lift, 35" Toyo Geolanders, a stubby stinger/bumper (still no winch), and Pedal Commander. So nothing crazy or wild, but with the lift and tires and upgrades yet.

I use it as my daily driver, and my hunting/fishing truck, and with that i have a 12' open trailer and a 10 foot covered trailer that I pull fairly regularly.

All that said, what I'm looking at is:

1. Hellcat - Go big or go home
2. 5.7L Hemi - more than enough for the Gladiator and anything I wanna do
3. 6.4 Hemi - again, more than enough for what I wanna do and its a bigger engine.
4. Twin Turbo the Pentastar - Not a "Swap" but would still require serious work and would be a big upgrade performance.

Obviously at some point I would replace/upgrade the differentials and other stuff, but again, thats another thread for another day.

thanks in advance!

 

[jsalbre]

Option 1 is going to cost you ar least $50k and possibly as high as $100k, but will have gobs of power, so if money is no option then go for it. You’ll also be getting single digit fuel mileage, so the 22 gal tank won’t get you very far.

Option 2 will probably be about $20-30k and option 3 somewhere north of $30k. If you want low end torque and not quite the insanity of the hellcat the this isn’t a bad way to go.

Option 4 is the least likely to be doable as there are no twin turbo kits out there for the Pentastar in the JT. There’s a single turbo kit from Prodigy, but it’s not very well regarded, as a lot of people seem to have blown up their engines with them. You’re looking somewhere around 10-15k+ for a turbo.

The unasked for option 5 would be putting on a Magnussen supercharger. You’re looking at a similar price to the turbo kit, but much more reliable and no lag. @DAVECS1 on here does some well-regarded tuning for these.

The price on all of the options is highly variable depending on what kit you use and if you’re doing some or all of the work yourself.

 

[kevman65]

Don't wait too long, big V8 crate engines will become scarce soon, JEEP/Chrysler/FCA/Stellantis is getting out of the market.

 

[NinjaBeard]

Option 1 is going to cost you ar least $50k and possibly as high as $100k, but will have gobs of power, so if money is no option then go for it. You’ll also be getting single digit fuel mileage, so the 22 gal tank won’t get you very far.

Option 2 will probably be about $20-30k and option 3 somewhere north of $30k. If you want low end torque and not quite the insanity of the hellcat the this isn’t a bad way to go.

Option 4 is the least likely to be doable as there are no twin turbo kits out there for the Pentastar in the JT. There’s a single turbo kit from Prodigy, but it’s not very well regarded, as a lot of people seem to have blown up their engines with them. You’re looking somewhere around 10-15k+ for a turbo.

The unasked for option 5 would be putting on a Magnussen supercharger. You’re looking at a similar price to the turbo kit, but much more reliable and no lag. @DAVECS1 on here does some well-regarded tuning for these.

The price on all of the options is highly variable depending on what kit you use and if you’re doing some or all of the work yourself.

Yeah I have the benefit of being able to get all of these engines well below anything you would find on the internet or through some of these guys online. Its going to be expensive either way but the install costs isn't really an issue. My BIL owns a body and mechanic shop. He builds "toys" for fun and has tools that I don't know what their names are. Because of that it will be a semi "DIY" job - which actually means ill be there for beer and tool support.

Thats a great point about the hellcat, I hadnt considered that about the tank size, which means that would probably need to be upsized. I wasnt aware that the chargers/challengers had such a big gas tank. I just looked and it looks like the TRX is running a 33 gallon tank. TBH no matter what engine I got with, that might not be a bad thing to get at some point.

I like the idea of the 392/6.4 Hemi - its tried and true - but again, if im going to put that big of an engine in there I figured I might as well go ahead and drop the hellcat in.

I hadnt even considered the Magnussen supercharger route - so again thank you for the consideration! that seems like it would be a pretty straightforward process. I swear i had seen twin turbo kits, but if single turbos are blowing engines I might just stay away from this option all together now that you bring it up.

The biggest benefit to the Hemi routes is they are straight forward, naturally aspirated V8 that isnt difficult to maintain and keep up with. They have both been around A LONG time and have a great track record. so theres that I guess

Theres just so much out there now that its hard to make up my mind lol. This is my 5 Wrangler-Style build so Im no stranger to this, but its my first one that isnt going to be built to beat the hell out of and take through nipple deep mud holes and over rocky trails lol. I just wanna make sure I do something that is going to stand up to the long haul.

 

[NinjaBeard]

Don't wait too long, big V8 crate engines will become scarce soon, JEEP/Chrysler/FCA/Stellantis is getting out of the market.

Yeah this isnt the first time they have said and "done" that lol. I get your point but theyre not going anywhere for a few years minimum. They are (well were before this obnoxious and unnecessary gas price hike) selling way to many of the "medium block" v8 engines to just ditch the market all together so suddenly. I dont work in the engine sales or futures world, but I dont really see this being as rapid as a departure as people think.

But your right - I probably need to go ahead and get the engine I want before they become a pain in the ass to find or become so expensive that its just no longer fun for anyone.

 

[SnazzGlad]

Hemi v8 crate engines will still be produced. They will not be available in factory built vehicles. This is according to a shop owner that specializes in Jeep hemi swaps. I didn’t google anything just took his word for it.

 

[Jefe1018]

Best bang for buck in my opinion would be in the following order:

1) Turboing your 3.6
2) Hemi whether 6.4 or 5.7
3) Hell cat - loads of power, but super expensive

With each subsequent number you get more power, but more expense as well. I guess the questions would be where your sweet spot is with money and power.

 

[jsalbre]

Comments in line below:

Yeah I have the benefit of being able to get all of these engines well below anything you would find on the internet or through some of these guys online. Its going to be expensive either way but the install costs isn't really an issue. My BIL owns a body and mechanic shop. He builds "toys" for fun and has tools that I don't know what their names are. Because of that it will be a semi "DIY" job - which actually means ill be there for beer and tool support.

Well that’s always nice to have. The install kits (adapters, harnesses, etc.) can be a big cost as well, but saving on engine cost and labor is huge.

Thats a great point about the hellcat, I hadnt considered that about the tank size, which means that would probably need to be upsized. I wasnt aware that the chargers/challengers had such a big gas tank. I just looked and it looks like the TRX is running a 33 gallon tank. TBH no matter what engine I got with, that might not be a bad thing to get at some point.

The Chargers and Challengers don’t have really huge tanks, but they’re also not 6000# with the aerodynamics of the Chrysler Building. There aren’t any larger tanks available for the JT, but you can get a Long Range America 17gal aux tank.

I like the idea of the 392/6.4 Hemi - its tried and true - but again, if im going to put that big of an engine in there I figured I might as well go ahead and drop the hellcat in.

I hadnt even considered the Magnussen supercharger route - so again thank you for the consideration! that seems like it would be a pretty straightforward process. I swear i had seen twin turbo kits, but if single turbos are blowing engines I might just stay away from this option all together now that you bring it up.

There is a twin turbo kit (also from Prodigy) for the Pentastar in the Challenger, but it’s not listed as available for the Jeeps.

The biggest benefit to the Hemi routes is they are straight forward, naturally aspirated V8 that isnt difficult to maintain and keep up with. They have both been around A LONG time and have a great track record. so theres that I guess

Theres just so much out there now that its hard to make up my mind lol. This is my 5 Wrangler-Style build so Im no stranger to this, but its my first one that isnt going to be built to beat the hell out of and take through nipple deep mud holes and over rocky trails lol. I just wanna make sure I do something that is going to stand up to the long haul.

Whatever way you go with this, good luck!

 

[shrinkhead]

I think the 6.4L is a reasonable choice. You get the same or better MPG than with the 3.6L and you have better towing setup as with the 5.7 I think.

 

[Silvertruck]

As a former owner of a fully kitted JTR and a TRX and a 6.4L scatpack challenger and several hemi rams, I might offer you a dissenting opinion.

This isnt what you asked for but given that you want to daily the jeep and you have towing needs, I would recommend you keep the jeep drivetrain as factory as possible and get yourself a half ton for towing if money is no object. You’ll have better load control and maintnenance this way.

Whether or not you pound rocks or run dunes you’ll want a light jeep. The hellcat and 6.4L are heavy engines and with both you’ll really eat into your all-in capacity for the chassis itself. Not only that but it will be harder on brakes, etc. It sounds like you have the wrenches covered with your BIL but things tend to never break at home. So, if you go wild on your jeep and bust a hose or PCM craps or anything, it will be very expensive to tow home to have the only guy that knows how it was built to fix it.

Also, lift kits are typically not tow maximizers. The more radical you go the worse it will perform as you start to ask the JT platform to do too much.

The TRX got laughable gas mileage (11 mpg avg) and it wont be much better in a gladiator running big tires and all the goodies. The crate 6.4 is a muscle car motor, so isnt going to curve out where you need it to tow.

Superchargers are great but also put a lot of stress on the top end, so if towing i might be concerned about longevity, and again getting it repaired out of your trade area would be a pain.

If you have to do a swap, I might suggest starting with a junkyard 2500 6.4 with low miles or a junkyard 5.7 out of a 1500. You can rebuild these easy enough and are built from the factory to take on the extra duty. But even then you are going to have to frankenstein it into your jeep’s electronics and make that reliable.

For the numbers you were throwing out as no problem, you could make a half ton diesel your daily driver and go crazy on your sport JT with whatever your off road goals are but keep the drivetrain stable when you are out pounding on it.

Dont get me wrong, I hear you on putting a big motor in the JT, wish it came factory with the 5.7 myself. Just wanted to offer some different points of view to round it out.

 

[NinjaBeard]

As a former owner of a fully kitted JTR and a TRX and a 6.4L scatpack challenger and several hemi rams, I might offer you a dissenting opinion.

This isnt what you asked for but given that you want to daily the jeep and you have towing needs, I would recommend you keep the jeep drivetrain as factory as possible and get yourself a half ton for towing if money is no object. You’ll have better load control and maintnenance this way.

Whether or not you pound rocks or run dunes you’ll want a light jeep. The hellcat and 6.4L are heavy engines and with both you’ll really eat into your all-in capacity for the chassis itself. Not only that but it will be harder on brakes, etc. It sounds like you have the wrenches covered with your BIL but things tend to never break at home. So, if you go wild on your jeep and bust a hose or PCM craps or anything, it will be very expensive to tow home to have the only guy that knows how it was built to fix it.

Also, lift kits are typically not tow maximizers. The more radical you go the worse it will perform as you start to ask the JT platform to do too much.

The TRX got laughable gas mileage (11 mpg avg) and it wont be much better in a gladiator running big tires and all the goodies. The crate 6.4 is a muscle car motor, so isnt going to curve out where you need it to tow.

Superchargers are great but also put a lot of stress on the top end, so if towing i might be concerned about longevity, and again getting it repaired out of your trade area would be a pain.

If you have to do a swap, I might suggest starting with a junkyard 2500 6.4 with low miles or a junkyard 5.7 out of a 1500. You can rebuild these easy enough and are built from the factory to take on the extra duty. But even then you are going to have to frankenstein it into your jeep’s electronics and make that reliable.

For the numbers you were throwing out as no problem, you could make a half ton diesel your daily driver and go crazy on your sport JT with whatever your off road goals are but keep the drivetrain stable when you are out pounding on it.

Dont get me wrong, I hear you on putting a big motor in the JT, wish it came factory with the 5.7 myself. Just wanted to offer some different points of view to round it out.

That is a very fair point! And I appreciate the input!

I do have an older 3/4 ton that I use for my heavy pulling. Its set up with a flat bed and gooseneck so Im good for that. Really the only thing I pull with the Gladiator is a 4-wheeler, a motorcyle, and a little aluminum john boat for fishing and duck hunting. So its really not too demanding.

The more I am looking into it - the more I am shying away from the Hellcat - which is sad becuase its such a cool engine lol. But it really isnt the best choice especially since I don't really need/want it to go fast and I'm really just chasing the extra horses and torque.

I like the idea of the junkyard 5.7 or 6.4 - but again I can get both of those for about the same price as I can get a new one. I figured the 6.4 was tuned the same for the power wagons and scat packs - they just had different gearings in the trannies and differentials? (i could be VERY WRONG about this but that was my understanding).

I really do appreciate the input! you have clearly been around the block with this lol. My biggest reason for doing the swap is Jeep's have been notoriously anemic especially after kitting them out. The 3.6 and 4.0L V6s just dont really have enough "Mmph" to perform well with the additional weight. I dont do alot of rock crawling or any duning at all, but I do go over some rough trails and sticky fun mud while out hunting and fishing. Getting through this is really where the extra torque and HPs come through (at least in my experience).

But you do bring up some good points - its not going to be an immediate thing, but its always nice to be prepared!

 

[NinjaBeard]

I think the 6.4L is a reasonable choice. You get the same or better MPG than with the 3.6L and you have better towing setup as with the 5.7 I think.

Definately have a better towing set up stock with the 6.4 - but the 5.7 isnt lacking either lol. Theres perks to both and if I'm being HONEST...I have to agree with @Silvertruck - if mopar would have dropped the 5.7 in it from the factory it would have been pretty ideal and perfect. But it didnt so now I have decisions to make lol

 

[XJFanatic]

I say if it’s 2-3 years down the line hold off and see how the new 3.0TT pans out. Than be the guy that figures out how to shoehorn it into a JT/JL.

I’m all about smaller forced induction motors.

 

[NinjaBeard]

I say if it’s 2-3 years down the line hold off and see how the new 3.0TT pans out. Than be the guy that figures out how to shoehorn it into a JT/JL.

I’m all about smaller forced induction motors.

When are they putting out a 3.0TT? I mean theyre cool and all dont get me wrong - forced induction is cool but theyre a PITA to work on lol.

its really impressive what some of these smaller engines are doing, but at the end of the day "there is no replacement for displacement"

But if they are dropping Hellcats into these Gladiators, I really dont think a 3LTT is going to be much of a problem lol

 

[XJFanatic]

When are they putting out a 3.0TT? I mean theyre cool and all dont get me wrong - forced induction is cool but theyre a PITA to work on lol.

its really impressive what some of these smaller engines are doing, but at the end of the day "there is no replacement for displacement"

But if they are dropping Hellcats into these Gladiators, I really dont think a 3LTT is going to be much of a problem lol

This year sometime. We will know what gets it first shortly here in April.

I am curious to see what the wiring will look like but something tells me a 2.0T engine harness could end up being modified with some work and a donor waggy harness to mate up to a JT/JL body harness.

Yeah planning the long game.

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