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Mark Allen Says Full Electric Jeeps Can Be Even More Capable Off-Roaders

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Jeep design boss, Mark Allen, recently spoke with CarAdvice about a potential Jeep Wrangler EV.


Jeep's design boss says an electric Jeep Wrangler could be just as capable off-road as today's model.

Plans for an electric Jeep Wrangler are still under wraps, but the off-load icon appears to be edging closer to a battery-powered model.

A senior Jeep executive believes electrification could even make for a better Wrangler – and the option is probably inevitable.

“I truly believe that if we do an electric Wrangler, sometime in the future, that would actually be a better Wrangler,” said Mark Allen, the Detroit-based design boss at Jeep, during a video conference with CarAdvice this week.

“It would be more capable off-road. It has the ability to do things that we can't do now,” he said.

“Are there definite plans for that? No, not at the moment. Is that on the horizon? I think probably, yes.”

Allen reiterated the company’s plans to offer electrification across its range by 2022, citing the recent unveiling of both the Jeep Renegade 4xe and Compass 4xe plug-in hybrids.

“There is also a Wrangler PHEV that's imminent,” said Allen. “We've shown one at the [Consumer Electronics] Show here. Beyond that, I can't speak of future plans.”

While reluctant to discuss the possibility of an all-electric Jeep Wrangler in the future, Allen was frank about the capabilities such a platform would provide Jeep’s halo off-roader.

“If we do something like that, it shouldn't be a compliance play because to me, it doesn't really matter where the power comes from,” he said. “Just that it goes to all four wheels. That's what's important.”

Allen (pictured above) explained the advantages of an electric powertrain over a conventional internal combustion engine are huge, especially in an off-road environment, a core element of the Wrangler appeal.

“Well, I mean, the power is delivered now, to all four wheels,” he said. “There's a central power source, and then through mechanics, we spread that power to all four wheels.

“If we did an electric vehicle, you'd have the ability to control each wheel’s speed and direction individually. That's huge. That's a big deal for manoeuvrability and off-road traction. The possibilities open up for us rather than close down.”

The designer also believes hardcore Jeep fans would embrace an electric Wrangler because the core DNA of that particular model is in its abilities to tackle rugged and rough terrain. Improve that even further, via electrification, and the loyalists, he believes, will continue to stay true to the brand.

“It's about making a better Wrangler,” he said. “A more capable off-road vehicle. That could happen.”
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The idea is cool but Jeep people aren’t usually early adopters. Jeep better get it right. Look at the mixed reception the Gladiator is getting. Capability shuts most of the naysayers up. Some supposedly Jeep people are still complaining about adding 4 doors and that making it not a real Jeep - from 2007. Before that it was TJs aren’t real. Cause coil springs are so complicated and scary, before that it was YJs have square headlights and on and on. The one consistent Thing was each model was capable on and off road and added to the appeal. An all Electric Wrangler has some big shoes to fill
 

Weasel Caesar

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Kind of a PITA to carry extra power into the woods when your vehicle is electric. How much would a spare EV battery cost anyway? Probably expensive as all hell. By contrast, you can latch jerry cans all over your rig and have extra gas for overlanding under the current gas and diesel engine configurations. What do you do when you run out of power? Plug into a tree stump?

Probably need some kind of solar charging kit for emergencies...
 

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Considering electric power is better than gas power I imagine it would be.
 

Rex3rd

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Kind of a PITA to carry extra power into the woods when your vehicle is electric. How much would a spare EV battery cost anyway? Probably expensive as all hell. By contrast, you can latch jerry cans all over your rig and have extra gas for overlanding under the current gas and diesel engine configurations. What do you do when you run out of power? Plug into a tree stump?

Probably need some kind of solar charging kit for emergencies...
I could see everyone adapting huge solar panels to roof top tents charging there batteries
 

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kostik76

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by all means all electric will be fine with simpler drive train (2/4 independent motors). but we will need nuclear power generators :) otherwise it is a no go cause we will all be dry on a overland trip out of civilization.
 

remlemasi

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I could see everyone adapting huge solar panels to roof top tents charging there batteries
Not likely. Let’s assume a fully electric Jeep has a 100 kWh battery that can go 300 miles (wishful thinking at this point but maybe in 5 years).
A single 300 W solar panel can get maybe 2.5 kWh per day in ideal conditions (no clouds, no shade, not too hot. Let’s round up to 4 kWh for the sake argument and future technology improvements.

At that rate, it would like 25 days to charge the full charge the battery, 300 miles of range, from a single 300 W panel. At a whooping 8 panels, that’s still over 3 days to go 300 miles. So under absolute ideal conditions, you would be able to go 100 miles per day. Those 8 panels... they would probably weigh over 500 lbs with the mounting setup and take up a real estate of 10’ x 12’ when deployed (3’ x 5’ each, which is actually undersizing them by a bit).

I love EVs and am a huge solar nerd. I have a Model 3 and a preorder for a Cybertruck. An all-electric Wrangler would be an off-road beast. But it would not make a good overlander. More suited for day- and weekend trips.
 

eternus

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The idea is cool but Jeep people aren’t usually early adopters. Jeep better get it right. Look at the mixed reception the Gladiator is getting.
I would early adopt the hell out of an e-Gladiator (well, the PHEV version anyway.) Electric motors have tons of torque and I think this on a Mojave buildout would check all my boxes. That being said, they definitely have to do it right for this to stick.
 

eternus

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Not likely. Let’s assume a fully electric Jeep has a 100 kWh battery that can go 300 miles (wishful thinking at this point but maybe in 5 years).
A single 300 W solar panel can get maybe 2.5 kWh per day in ideal conditions (no clouds, no shade, not too hot. Let’s round up to 4 kWh for the sake argument and future technology improvements.

At that rate, it would like 25 days to charge the full charge the battery, 300 miles of range, from a single 300 W panel. At a whooping 8 panels, that’s still over 3 days to go 300 miles. So under absolute ideal conditions, you would be able to go 100 miles per day. Those 8 panels... they would probably weigh over 500 lbs with the mounting setup and take up a real estate of 10’ x 12’ when deployed (3’ x 5’ each, which is actually undersizing them by a bit).

I love EVs and am a huge solar nerd. I have a Model 3 and a preorder for a Cybertruck. An all-electric Wrangler would be an off-road beast. But it would not make a good overlander. More suited for day- and weekend trips.
I like that you're plugging n the numbers, but they're also in a vacuum. In an overlapping vehicle you're still seeing civilization periodically so you could do a top off to Full on occasion. (I'm just being a devil's advocate here, there are way too many unknowns to really argue that you're wrong.)

Musk said you'd get 15 miles back a day if you got the solar kit when the Cybertruck comes out... if you overland to a destination, then park and use the truck as your basecamp, I could see letting it just sit and charge. Alternatively, in sunny areas, if the solar was usable while driving, you could be recapturing some of that power just getting to a destination.

Truly I just wish we were to a point where we were talking about an e-Gladiator with actual hard data, I am sick of the "next year" conversations I've been having to deal with since the Gladiator was a Scrambler and going to look like the Crew Chief.
 

5JeepsAz

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Hey, something for everyone! Gotta know your history or you repeat it, right?

If you believe in hoaxes try blurb number one from the Wikipedia about an electric car hoax out of 1967.

If you crave lofty goals like saving the nation, check out the blurb from Smithsonian about how they aborted a whole generation of e cars that people loved.

Nikola Tesla electric car hoax - Wikipedia

The Nikola Tesla electric car hoax is an anecdote that refers to a supposed Nikola Tesla invention described by Peter Savo, who claimed to be a nephew of Tesla, to Derek Ahers in 1967. Savo said that Tesla took him to Buffalo, New York in 1931 and showed him a modified Pierce-Arrow car.

Tesla, according to the story, had removed the gasoline engine from the car and replaced it with a brushless AC electric motor. The motor was said to have been run by a "cosmic energy power receiver" consisting of a box measuring about 25 inches long by 10 inches wide by 6 inches high, containing 12 radio vacuum tubes and connected to a 6-foot-long (1.8 m) antenna. The car was said to have been driven for about 50 miles at speeds of up to 90 mph during an eight-day period.[1][2]

The story has received some debate because the car's propulsion system is said to have been invented by Tesla. No physical evidence has ever been produced confirming that the car actually existed. Tesla did not have a nephew by the name of Peter Savo, and Tesla's grand-nephew William Terbo considers the Tesla electric car story to be a fabrication.

A number of web pages exist that perpetuate this tale.[3][4] Aside from this one exception, every other account of this purported demonstration automobile is based upon the Peter Savo story plus literary embellishment.[5][6][7][8][9][10] wikipedia.com

The Death of the EV-1
Fans of a battery-powered emissions free sedan mourn its passing

the EV1, an innovatively engineered attempt to jump-start GM’s 21st century, will never again be driven by loyal fans. Although some 1,100 of the vehicles were produced since 1996 and leased to drivers in California and Arizona, almost all were destroyed once the leases ran out. For many of the lessees, this was a tragedy. As one owner wrote in an open letter to GM CEO Rick Wagoner, “...the EV1 is more than a car, it’s a path to national salvation.” (Smithsonianrag.com)
 

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remlemasi

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I like that you're plugging n the numbers, but they're also in a vacuum. In an overlapping vehicle you're still seeing civilization periodically so you could do a top off to Full on occasion. (I'm just being a devil's advocate here, there are way too many unknowns to really argue that you're wrong.)

Musk said you'd get 15 miles back a day if you got the solar kit when the Cybertruck comes out... if you overland to a destination, then park and use the truck as your basecamp, I could see letting it just sit and charge. Alternatively, in sunny areas, if the solar was usable while driving, you could be recapturing some of that power just getting to a destination.

Truly I just wish we were to a point where we were talking about an e-Gladiator with actual hard data, I am sick of the "next year" conversations I've been having to deal with since the Gladiator was a Scrambler and going to look like the Crew Chief.
Absolutely fair points and Musk’s more realistic 15 miles per day assuming around 300 W system lines up pretty well the 100 miles per day with my hypothetical and outrageously large 2.4 kW “mobile” system (300 W x 8 panels).

The Tesla Supercharger network and whatever Electrify America will eventually be, along with the 240V outlets at RV sites, is really what will enable the revolution, whenever that may be. I’m looking forward to it.

That being said, I still think we’re a long ways off from “relying” on a solar charging system for long-distance travel. Yes, under ideal circumstances, we could get 15 miles per day. But what if you get unexpected rain or cloud cover and we’re down to 5-10% SoC? That 4-day base camp stay turns into 20... hope you have enough food and water! Again, just playing devil’s advocate back at you :)

So like I said, day-trips, weekend trips where you‘re no more than 100 miles away from reasonably fast charging, sure. Gravy. And to be fair, most of us will not be doing too much more than that. But in these cases, the value of a solar charging system wouldn’t be that great either in my opinion.
 

Kent5

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“The designer also believes hardcore Jeep fans would embrace an electric Wrangler because the core DNA of that particular model is in its abilities to tackle rugged and rough terrain. Improve that even further, via electrification, and the loyalists, he believes, will continue to stay true to the brand”

I don’t think he fully understands Wrangler owners.
Think of the example of the Wrangler: do you think a new Wrangler would be accepted if it had an IFS instead of a solid axle? Even if the engineers said that the IFS was more capable off-road? How about a new Wrangler without a folding windshield or removable doors? Those add no “ability to tackle rugged terrain “ and yet I think many consider those key design features to be a “real” Jeep.

No, Mr Allen — there is a LOT more to the iconic Jeep than simply “the ability to tackle rugged terrain”, and as long as you have that, everything else gets a pass. A 4Runner can “tackle rugged terrain” so could that successfully be rebranded as a Wrangler? What about the Cherokee, Compass or Renegade? They could certainly be factory modded to “tackle rugged terrain” so why not just have “Wrangler” be an up-fitted trim level of one of those existing Jeep models, with a factory lift and bigger tires? Think that would go over well as a Wrangler replacement?
 

remlemasi

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“The designer also believes hardcore Jeep fans would embrace an electric Wrangler because the core DNA of that particular model is in its abilities to tackle rugged and rough terrain. Improve that even further, via electrification, and the loyalists, he believes, will continue to stay true to the brand”

I don’t think he fully understands Wrangler owners.
Think of the example of the Wrangler: do you think a new Wrangler would be accepted if it had an IFS instead of a solid axle? Even if the engineers said that the IFS was more capable off-road? How about a new Wrangler without a folding windshield or removable doors? Those add no “ability to tackle rugged terrain “ and yet I think many consider those key design features to be a “real” Jeep.

No, Mr Allen — there is a LOT more to the iconic Jeep than simply “the ability to tackle rugged terrain”, and as long as you have that, everything else gets a pass. A 4Runner can “tackle rugged terrain” so could that successfully be rebranded as a Wrangler? What about the Cherokee, Compass or Renegade? They could certainly be factory modded to “tackle rugged terrain” so why not just have “Wrangler” be an up-fitted trim level of one of those existing Jeep models, with a factory lift and bigger tires? Think that would go over well as a Wrangler replacement?
But hypothetically, what if the new EV Wrangler beast had four hub motors, one for each wheel, all four corners independent suspension with an ungodly amount of travel and flex. No diffs, no axles. Independent traction control of each tire, all “locked,” all “open,” or even 360-degree tank turns. Lol.

I would buy one. Of course assuming they keep the other “Wrangler” stuff.... hmm, I now see your point about what makes a Wrangler a Wrangler. Nevermind.
 

Ian8

Not likely. Let’s assume a fully electric Jeep has a 100 kWh battery that can go 300 miles (wishful thinking at this point but maybe in 5 years).
A single 300 W solar panel can get maybe 2.5 kWh per day in ideal conditions (no clouds, no shade, not too hot. Let’s round up to 4 kWh for the sake argument and future technology improvements.

At that rate, it would like 25 days to charge the full charge the battery, 300 miles of range, from a single 300 W panel. At a whooping 8 panels, that’s still over 3 days to go 300 miles. So under absolute ideal conditions, you would be able to go 100 miles per day. Those 8 panels... they would probably weigh over 500 lbs with the mounting setup and take up a real estate of 10’ x 12’ when deployed (3’ x 5’ each, which is actually undersizing them by a bit).

I love EVs and am a huge solar nerd. I have a Model 3 and a preorder for a Cybertruck. An all-electric Wrangler would be an off-road beast. But it would not make a good overlander. More suited for day- and weekend trips.
I think you really know your stuff about electric cars. One thing I think you forget to account for is the increased impedance that occurs at the battery gets full. It would probably be impossible to fully charge the battery using only a couple of solar panels (or it would take much longer than the 25 days you calculated). But your point remains intact. Either you use the ejeep with the intent of plugging in after off-roading, or get a gasoline one for overlanding.
 

hjdca

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I think this COVID-19 pandemic will effect EV development by pushing more of a need to alternate technology to Lithium. I think USA will try to go away from Lithium battery technology as soon as possible ---- and thus, change the game again.
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