Max Tow 4xE

[Bobzdar]

Yup, There are differences between the GC and the JT. The ones I mentioned plus the ones you mentioned, plus curb weight, unibody versus cab on chassis, braking capability and others. However, I still think the GC 4XE gives us the best clue. If we look at it a bit differently and compare the GC with a 3.6 pentastar and the GC 4Xe we see the 4Xe gives up a few hundred pounds of towing capacity. Therefore, the same JT 4Xe penalty compared to a JT 3.6L may be a few hundred pounds. Then a JTR 4XE towing could be 6500 to 6800lbs. And if they make a JT 4Xe Max Tow trim then maybe they could get towing both of 7000 lbs. I'm just pessimistic because I've lost faith in Stelantis management

If they can get the cooling sorted. I'm not sure how they do that, they've already opened up the grill, the '24 JL and JT have the same grill unlike prior to '24, which is part of the reason the regular JL can tow 5000lbs now.

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[GeneralMaximus]

If they can get the cooling sorted. I'm not sure how they do that, they've already opened up the grill, the '24 JL and JT have the same grill unlike prior to '24, which is part of the reason the regular JL can tow 5000lbs now.

Mojave hood with a functional scoop?

 

[Bobzdar]

I'm wondering if we're going to get a hybridized pentastar instead. I'd be fine with that tbh.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What? Of course the engine is running, but it gets hot. I didn't get reduced battery power but had to slow to keep the (gas) engine under 240.

The '24 Rubicon 4xe has the full float rear axle. https://s3.amazonaws.com/chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/mediasite/specs/2024_JP_Wrangler_4xe_SP.pdf

Notice where it says rear axle: Dana 44 hd full float (Rubicon 4xe).

Prior to '24 doesn't. The 392 and 4xe have reduced towing because they are cooling limited. It's a bummer because the 4xe drivetrain is excellent for towing, lots of low end torque. It works well and does not cut power. I think this is why the gladiator 4xe has been delayed for so long, they are trying to get the cooling to where it's not severely limited in towing. I don't have high hopes tbh.

There's still cooling issues with the electric motor. A Jeep 4xe guy and I did some math and figured out the limits of those motors months ago, it's not only the engine cooling, the electric motor is down there, enclosed, drawing hefty power, getting hot. To prevent overheating, the gas engine is relied on more and the electric motor is cut back - the loading reduced.

Sorry, didn't see where YOU had a 2024 Rubicon 4xe. Ours is a '23
I know all about the full floating axles - but that's bragging rights for the other JLUs more than the 4xe version.

The 2024 grill design will let through a heck of a lot more air than the 2023 and prior. It's a night and day difference, and likely one reason they went to that was preparation for the future - it's like a lot of companies have done for many decades - if a change is planned for 2 model years down the road, move in some simple changes now. I can point to some detailed specifics from the '70s where changes were made to engines - an interim change, in anticipation of the upcoming model year changes. It's easier than doing it all in a single model year, and cheaper.
I don't believe engine cooling will be a factor at all.
It's going to be weight on a chassis design made for a lot less weight.
Look at the payload numbers on the JT - a loaded Mojave is down in the 800-900 pound range. Now add the weight of the electric motor, all of the cabling, the armor to protect the batteries as you see in your Wrangler, and the battery packs themselves. You will lose at least half of that payload, if not more, which is a huge factor in towing.
It's going to be a very heavy vehicle.
We did our math based on the weight of the JLU 4xe and HP of the electric motor itself and found limitations. It's really pushing that little electric motor hard, running it hot, to try to drive 65-70 on our interstates here (hills and wind) so even if you have 10 miles left on the battery pack as shown by the cluster, it's going to run the engine to let the electric motor cool off.
If there's heat issues - it's going to be with the electric drive as well as engine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Mojave hood with a functional scoop?

That won't cool what needs to be cooled.
We get into the deep deep discussion of heat rejection going much further here.
Air flow over the top won't help the combustion chamber and oil temperatures.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If they can get the cooling sorted. I'm not sure how they do that, they've already opened up the grill, the '24 JL and JT have the same grill unlike prior to '24, which is part of the reason the regular JL can tow 5000lbs now.

The grill/cooling and the heavier axles. Remember, the JT got heavier duty axles than the Wrangler.
The JLU is also a short sprung vehicle, which doesn't help in towing when it's as tall as it is.
The ratings aren't all about axles and engines and cooling. It's about taking a course - the SAE testing, and passing that. That entails some braking and steering tests as well. A taller vehicle won't do as well as the Grand Cherokee, for example, due to steering and weight distribution.

 

[Bobzdar]

The grill/cooling and the heavier axles. Remember, the JT got heavier duty axles than the Wrangler.
The JLU is also a short sprung vehicle, which doesn't help in towing when it's as tall as it is.
The ratings aren't all about axles and engines and cooling. It's about taking a course - the SAE testing, and passing that. That entails some braking and steering tests as well. A taller vehicle won't do as well as the Grand Cherokee, for example, due to steering and weight distribution.

It's the cooling that's the problem, that's why the '24 JL 4xe Rubicon, despite having the bigger grill and full float d44, can only tow 3500lbs. I know the JT has the chassis for towing but I don't know how they take a power train that overheats with 5000lbs and cool it enough, with the same front end, to tow that or more when it can't do it in the Wrangler. There's no difference between the fronts on the '24 JL and '25 JT, unlike the pre face lift versions. They actually put the JT grill on the pre '24 4xe wranglers to cool them better, that thing has a lot of crap to cool. I don't see how they get 5000 plus on a jt.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I know the JT has the chassis for towing but I don't know how they take a power train that overheats with 5000lbs and cool it enough, with the same front end, to tow that or more when it can't do it in the Wrangler.

But the JT doesn't overheat if you are towing "as properly equipped" as the disclaimers all say. Hundreds of us tow that and more with zero overheating issues. I tow a strong 5,000 pounds with my already weighed-down JT (winch, power steps, steel bumper and so on) in the hills and there's no heating issue. I don't see how you can say the JT has an overheating problem at 5,000 pounds. It doesn't.

It's the cooling that's the problem, that's why the '24 JL 4xe Rubicon, despite having the bigger grill and full float d44, can only tow 3500lbs.

You are typing as if I don't know about the cooling and grills and so on with these............ but I do.
The 4xe has other issues - it was never built to be a towing machine. Anyone wanting to use a hybrid for heavy-duty towing is kidding themselves. At highway speeds under load that electric motor gets hot, then they kick in the turbo 2.0 to help handle the load - and that thing kicks out a lot of heat. It's going to run hotter tha a 3.6 would towing the same load. It's a lot of pressure on the 2.0. The electric is running near capacity at highway speeds as it is. (I was in on a discussion with a guy in dedicated 4xe forums and we talked the wattage, weight, wind resistance/drag and so on and figured the maximums that electric could handle. And then you consider it's not cooled easily down there)

Anyone buying a JLU 4xe for towing any real weight is a fool.

 

[Slojo]

Yes, do not plan on buying a PHEV JT for towing.
It would be great if Jeep would actually show one.
This has been talked about and winked at by executives for years.
It is either one of the best disguised prototype tests of a vehicle in the last 100 years or it is all bogus.
The sudden collapse of JLU 4xe sales and subsequent huge discounts probably has them spooked.

 

[Bobzdar]

But the JT doesn't overheat if you are towing "as properly equipped" as the disclaimers all say. Hundreds of us tow that and more with zero overheating issues. I tow a strong 5,000 pounds with my already weighed-down JT (winch, power steps, steel bumper and so on) in the hills and there's no heating issue. I don't see how you can say the JT has an overheating problem at 5,000 pounds. It doesn't.


You are typing as if I don't know about the cooling and grills and so on with these............ but I do.
The 4xe has other issues - it was never built to be a towing machine. Anyone wanting to use a hybrid for heavy-duty towing is kidding themselves. At highway speeds under load that electric motor gets hot, then they kick in the turbo 2.0 to help handle the load - and that thing kicks out a lot of heat. It's going to run hotter tha a 3.6 would towing the same load. It's a lot of pressure on the 2.0. The electric is running near capacity at highway speeds as it is. (I was in on a discussion with a guy in dedicated 4xe forums and we talked the wattage, weight, wind resistance/drag and so on and figured the maximums that electric could handle. And then you consider it's not cooled easily down there)

Anyone buying a JLU 4xe for towing any real weight is a fool.

I think you misread my post, that was precisely my point, the JT doesn't overheat while the JL with 4xe overheats at 5klbs (if you don't pay attention) and I see no way they'll get it over 6k in the JT. Which defeats the purpose of putting it in the JT. I'm agreeing with you.

That said, the 4xe powertrain tows 5k lbs very well with no issue other than in hot ambient temps on big hills it gets hot enough you have to slow down. It never cut power, never gave me any issues but I slowed down when I saw the temp getting high (240). This is not conjecture, this is me towing 5000lbs in last summer's July heatwave up the Mass tpk from 200' elevation to 1700' elevation in one shot. I had to slow to 55mph to keep temps under 240. It never cut power or threw a warning, but over 240 the temp gauge would go to 3/4, so I kept it under that. At the bottom of the hill it was 20% battery and at the top it was 4%. I ran in esave maintain the whole trip keeping battery at minimum 20% and it never needed more than that on any hill, and would recharge back up to 20% on the descent. So no, it is not a poor powertrain for towing at all, quite the opposite. It's great for towing. I towed from VA to Montreal and back in the middle of July when we had that heatwave and there were only two occasions I had to slow to keep it under 240. The Jeep just has a poor front end for cooling purposes. I understand why they won't rate it 5000lbs in the JL, because you can't keep your foot in it and have it stay cool unlike the pentastar, you actually have to watch the temp gauge and they know most people won't do that, they'll just blow the thing up or wait for it to cut power and then complain it sucks.

It's too bad because if they put this powertrain in a JT and it could tow 6k+ I'd trade this in for one in a heartbeat. It is absolutely ideal for camping, especially boondocking with a camper as it can power everything with no need for a generator and it tows like a V8. I'm hoping they figure it out, I'll be first in line if they do.

 

[AstroZombie]

If you want to tow, stick with a normally aspirated V6 gas engine. If you want to tow more than 4,000 lbs, get yourself a Sport or Sport S with the Max Tow package. There is a lot more to the Max Tow package than typically summarized.

Mileage due to the 4.10 rear axle will go down a lot, towing or not. In my opinion, if you want to tow over 6,000 lbs, buy a full size truck. Yes, the Sport/Sport S equipped with all that makes up the Max Towing package-option during factory assembly, can potentially tow up to 7,650 lbs with the hitch weight topping out at 765 lbs. However, it should be consider swhat your going to put in the truck bed, along with the number and weight off passengers, dog(s), etc, other gear in the cabin and a biggie: The shift in the average high temperature. Then consider if your mostly flat towing or if your trips tend to have a number of high degree slope hills & mountains to run.

The JEEP Gladiator on its own is a terrific bull-dog brute in its Mid-size class. But hauling heavy loads is really best left to longer-length, heavier chassis and weight class trucks with the choice of beefier engines and transmissions. As well as the wheels shoe'd with tires chosen for the purpose of hauling. And if the weight distribution is balanced well, the trailer will trail straight and true.

What I do: My moderately heavy load hauling get done with my RAM 3/4 ton with V10. Uses a lot of fuel but its low RPM, massive and somewhat like a diesel's flatter torque range and incredibly cool running powertrain in any manner of hauling provides a really nice, safer haul. Zero mechanical issues since 2001. Literally none. I think the body and cabin will wear out before the powertrain ever does. Smart move to drop the V10 however, in favor of todays gas V8's and of course, diesel with its very, very flat torque range. And these choices today are cleaner burning.

Give your needs a lot of thought. Also bear in mind that an RV-type trailer presents a lot of air drag. Regardless of how they shape the nose, this has a big bearing on drag, ergo hp/torque/fuel use. even the undersides of anything towed , compromises air flow. Gusts will give the electro-hydraulic old school recirculating ball steering gear in the JEEP more of a workout than a vehicle equipped with a rack and pinion system. JEEPS axles and steering gear choice are the best for off-roading, especially strenuous off-road actions. But rack and pinion equipped vehicles do better on pavement, including high frontal or cross wind situations. I'm not saying don't use the Gladiator to tow. Your actual needs might be just fine with a Gladiator. Which is certainly the most enjoyable Swiss army knife on wheels vehicle I have ever owned.

stock breaks would probably not like 7k tow weight LOL

 

[AstroZombie]

Yes, do not plan on buying a PHEV JT for towing.
It would be great if Jeep would actually show one.
This has been talked about and winked at by executives for years.
It is either one of the best disguised prototype tests of a vehicle in the last 100 years or it is all bogus.
The sudden collapse of JLU 4xe sales and subsequent huge discounts probably has them spooked.

no one wants 30-40 miles of ev range LOL

 

[bleda2002]

I dont care about EV range, I just want the higher HP and Torque, especially if it comes in yellow (real hella'yella, not pastel highlighter low velocity yellow)

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