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May have medical explanation for weird issues and pain

ShadowsPapa

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WARNING - it's long and detailed!

I had an "interesting" visit with my doctor yesterday. Went in to the urgent care place and it was my own doctor who was on duty then. I went for pain that's progressing from back around to side and forward on lower abdomen. It is in a place similar to location of kidney but more in the muscle area and outward. It had gotten unbearable and making it hard to sleep. It's moving in a straight line and severe at times. NOTHING helped - none of the OTC pain things be it aspirin or anything else sold for pain helped, not one lick. In a way it reminds me SORT OF, of the same thing that happened off and on months ago on my scalp and face and nothing conclusive was ever decided, I decided to ride it out - it got better but never went away.
Along with the face tingling and numbness, my scalp hurt like hell if touched and the wind moving what hair I have was painful. Along with that, there were severe headaches and joint and muscle pains.

I talked to the doctor about it being my back since I have a lifetime of lifting, carrying and bending over fenders and such - I have some spine issues. He said no, this isn't related and the pains I have aren't my back (not at this time anyway!)
He believes it's "internal shingles" (although technically that's the type that impacts internal organs, the term is loosely used for any that doesn't have the rash) - this is known medically as Zoster sine herpete (ZSH). No rash at all.
It's caused by the same virus that causes chicken pox - the varicella-zoster virus.
Interesting thing is that the virus' impact always follows nerve paths, for example, may impact only half of an area, like right half of scalp, but not left at all, or there may be numbness or tingling on right half of face, but the left is fine.
The lower side pain is also a straight line. Feel like I've got some sort of bad infection at times but never a fever and all tests come back 100% normal. Also accompanied with a lot of fatigue, can't keep moving - and moving hurts bad. It's painful as heck just sitting in a chair right now (after mowing for a bit - the jouncing on the lawn tractor was too much.

This version never has a rash, but causes severe pain in straight lines, tender to the touch and like a badly pulled muscle at times.
I had the shots - doctor said that's a good thing as if I hadn't, it would likely be a lot worse.
The vaccines are 97% effective and for those who still have it pop up, it reduces severity of the symptoms, so there's plenty of reasons to get the vaccine.
I did some research on the Cleveland Clinic and Mayo pages. The symptoms fit perfectly.
Wonderful - lasts from months to years, can be severe, not a lot can be done. The virus that causes it can't be eradicated, only kept at bay maybe.
What I have to look forward to ->
Postherpetic neuralgia (PHN) is a common complication of shingles. Research has shown that between 5 and 20 percent of people who develop shingles go on to develop PHN.
During a shingles outbreak, the nerve fibers where the virus has been dormant become inflamed. This leads to abnormal transmission of neural impulses. The result is pain.
However, once the infection has resolved, the pain can continue. This is known as PHN. It can lead to constant localized pain along with numbness and tingling for months. Other symptoms can include off-and-on pain and increased sensitivity to touch. In more severe cases, the symptoms can last for years.

Well, that explains the weird pains, tingling, etc. - and why nothing I take has any impact at all - even max doses of pain killers have zero impact and the doctor says "of course they won't because the virus attacks the nerves themselves causing false signals".
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eaglerugby04

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Sorry to hear this. My dad has been dealing with Shingles at some level for the last 11 months. It is bad just on the outside, I can't even imagine what it must be like inside.
 

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Damn dude that sounds awful. I re-broke my back in November, at least I could jug beer and pain killers to get relief. 16 weeks of PT and I am back at ot but dang it was a long journey.
 
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ShadowsPapa

ShadowsPapa

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There is no cure is the bad thing if this is what he says (and it sure is looking that way). The migrating pains can last months to years. Since the virus directly attacks the central nervous system, no pain killers work. I asked him why nothing I took, Tylenol, ibuprofen, aspirin, Aleve, etc. - nothing even took it down a notch, he said that fits his thinking.


It was a struggle trying to work under my truck today - took hours to do what should have taken only a couple.
 

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There is no cure is the bad thing if this is what he says (and it sure is looking that way). The migrating pains can last months to years. Since the virus directly attacks the central nervous system, no pain killers work. I asked him why nothing I took, Tylenol, ibuprofen, aspirin, Aleve, etc. - nothing even took it down a notch, he said that fits his thinking.


It was a struggle trying to work under my truck today - took hours to do what should have taken only a couple.
Any discussion on the use of Neurontin or Lyrica for symptoms?
 

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I haven't partaken since it was $50 an oz., but have you considered marijuana? Can't hurt.
 

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Any discussion on the use of Neurontin or Lyrica for symptoms?
I have nerve damage from my broken back. i took Lyrica, and will never do that again. You cannot just decide not to take it any more and it messed with just about everything else even know the pain was gone.
 

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Yeah, the skin sensitivity made me think shingles right away. I hope that you can bear through it okay, my uncle had it many years ago and it was quite simply terrible for him.
 
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ShadowsPapa

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Any discussion on the use of Neurontin or Lyrica for symptoms?
The doctor said valacyclovir should help. I could argue the point. So far, it's worse than the day I went to see him. At least I got some sleep last night.


Yeah, the skin sensitivity made me think shingles right away. I hope that you can bear through it okay, my uncle had it many years ago and it was quite simply terrible for him.
That was a suspected cause when I went in months ago with the right side of my face tingling and partially numb and the right half of my scalp crazy sensitive. Any breeze in my hair I went through the roof. Putting on a hat hurt like crazy but once it was on I was fine - I wore a hat to keep the breeze out of that little bit of hair and keep the sun off. Laying down on a pillow sent waves of pain through the right half of my scalp - but once I was down I was ok - until I rolled over and back onto my right side then I cringed again.
They suspected it COULD be shingles virus in the nerves because it never crossed over to the left - until weeks later then the right half was fine and it hit the left half but not nearly as hard. Now it's moved down. They did xrays, blood samples, urine samples, etc. to rule other things out. White count was fine, no sign of kidney stones or malfunction, everything LOOKED good on the xrays and other tests.

I know of no one who has ever done it, I usually believe in science and dismiss witchcraft and quackery, but have wondered if acupuncture does any good at all.
Apparently we can run a helicopter on Mars, transplant entire faces and limbs, make compounds as hard as diamond, and shoot down things on the other side of the world - but can't eradicate the virus that causes this.
 

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The doctor said valacyclovir should help. I could argue the point. So far, it's worse than the day I went to see him. At least I got some sleep last night.




That was a suspected cause when I went in months ago with the right side of my face tingling and partially numb and the right half of my scalp crazy sensitive. Any breeze in my hair I went through the roof. Putting on a hat hurt like crazy but once it was on I was fine - I wore a hat to keep the breeze out of that little bit of hair and keep the sun off. Laying down on a pillow sent waves of pain through the right half of my scalp - but once I was down I was ok - until I rolled over and back onto my right side then I cringed again.
They suspected it COULD be shingles virus in the nerves because it never crossed over to the left - until weeks later then the right half was fine and it hit the left half but not nearly as hard. Now it's moved down. They did xrays, blood samples, urine samples, etc. to rule other things out. White count was fine, no sign of kidney stones or malfunction, everything LOOKED good on the xrays and other tests.

I know of no one who has ever done it, I usually believe in science and dismiss witchcraft and quackery, but have wondered if acupuncture does any good at all.
Apparently we can run a helicopter on Mars, transplant entire faces and limbs, make compounds as hard as diamond, and shoot down things on the other side of the world - but can't eradicate the virus that causes this.
Seems like I've seen recently a vaccination to help prevent shingles, I'm pretty sure I did and I have to say, I'd really consider getting that so I at least had some level of protection against it. I'm of the generation who's parents said, "go play with that kid over there" and he had chicken pox. So, having that antibody swimming around in my bloodstream, it's very possible I could get it some day too.
 

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ShadowsPapa

ShadowsPapa

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Seems like I've seen recently a vaccination to help prevent shingles, I'm pretty sure I did and I have to say, I'd really consider getting that so I at least had some level of protection against it. I'm of the generation who's parents said, "go play with that kid over there" and he had chicken pox. So, having that antibody swimming around in my bloodstream, it's very possible I could get it some day too.
I did - I got the new one about a year or so ago, the two dose one.

He said it's 97% effective and still helps keep it from being as bad as it would if you had no vaccine at all.
It only keeps the virus at bay - meaning if you've had chicken pox you have the virus in you, but it won't become active in all adults later and in those that do, the vaccine prevents it from being as bad as it would be otherwise.
The number that gets the non-"blister" or non epidermal type is pretty small - and of course, leave it to me to get that type. I always get the weirs stuff. Years ago I had a situation come up every few weeks that no doctor, no specialist, no one at all could figure out - finally it went away. I carried standing orders and prescriptions for tests with me at all times for a few years. Finally a chiropractic neurologist online suggested there was something in a specific place in the brain he named that was sending false signals. In a way, I sort of wonder if that was related, looking back now. They thought I had malaria for a while.
 

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The doctor said valacyclovir should help. I could argue the point. So far, it's worse than the day I went to see him. At least I got some sleep last night.




That was a suspected cause when I went in months ago with the right side of my face tingling and partially numb and the right half of my scalp crazy sensitive. Any breeze in my hair I went through the roof. Putting on a hat hurt like crazy but once it was on I was fine - I wore a hat to keep the breeze out of that little bit of hair and keep the sun off. Laying down on a pillow sent waves of pain through the right half of my scalp - but once I was down I was ok - until I rolled over and back onto my right side then I cringed again.
They suspected it COULD be shingles virus in the nerves because it never crossed over to the left - until weeks later then the right half was fine and it hit the left half but not nearly as hard. Now it's moved down. They did xrays, blood samples, urine samples, etc. to rule other things out. White count was fine, no sign of kidney stones or malfunction, everything LOOKED good on the xrays and other tests.

I know of no one who has ever done it, I usually believe in science and dismiss witchcraft and quackery, but have wondered if acupuncture does any good at all.
Apparently we can run a helicopter on Mars, transplant entire faces and limbs, make compounds as hard as diamond, and shoot down things on the other side of the world - but can't eradicate the virus that causes this.

Valacyclovir would be good in the acute phase. Gabapentin or Lyrica for the postherpetic pain. The minority don't get it a second time, but it's not a 0% chance. I had both of my Shingrix immunizations and just a sore arm on the second one. I highly recommend the immunization. Shingles pain can be terrible.
 

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Interesting. I went through some family drama a few years ago and developed this weird senstive internal pain under my right rib cage along with heavy fatigue. Took months to go away on its own. Doctor was not much help.
 

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Valacyclovir would be good in the acute phase. Gabapentin or Lyrica for the postherpetic pain. The minority don't get it a second time, but it's not a 0% chance. I had both of my Shingrix immunizations and just a sore arm on the second one. I highly recommend the immunization. Shingles pain can be terrible.
This is accurate. One clarification is that gabapentin or Lyrica taken during the accute phase also should reduce the risk of developing post-herpetic neuralgia (from studies that I last looked at about 6 years ago ... I will look to see if there is new info when I am back on my work network). One other thing to look at is to do a Google image search for dermatome to see the different patterns that future flares could follow (to help identify them earlier ... hopefully they don't happen again though)... If your doctor recommends gabapentin, one of the most common side effects is drowsiness... so if they recommend a single dose ... opt for a bedtime dose ... if they discuss a 2 or 3 time per day dosing and it only kind of works, know that sometimes lower daytime doses and a larger bedtime dose is an option (discussed with your doctor, of course) ... sorry that you are going through this... Best of luck on a speedy recovery
 
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ShadowsPapa

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There's some pretty "medically aware" people on this forum.
The kicker about this sort is that there is no sign at all on the skin. Not a rash, not a sore anywhere, nothing unusual to see as any sign something is going on. Zero sores or blisters, not even a bump or something that looks like a bug bite. Suddenly, there's the pain. In this case it started in the back on the left side, but according to the doctor, too high, wrong place for the back or pinched nerve. Then it started travelling along a line around my side to the front, the worst is my side now.
Last year when I went to a neurologist as recommended by another doctor, he pointed out the spots that were supplied by some nerve that impacted the head and face - when he started pushing and poking to show what the areas were - he nailed it as far as where I was feeling pain and numbness.

I suspect what he was doing was related to " dermatome" patterns?
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