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Reaching out to those doing their own shock tuning?

CrazyCooter

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As usual......Im killing myself knowing how good a vehicle can drive if set up properly!

Started with a 2021 JTRD last year and tossed on 1.75 front .75 rear spacers/shock extensions and 37s at 30 miles the day before a 2500 mile overland desert trip.

My vehicle was plagued with the annoying front suspension bottoming out of the box, but the spring spacer combined with the Metalcloak Durosprings got me through till my Fox Elite 2.5s and airbumps showed up........At the time of install, I swapped a pair of front Evo 4" JK coils which netted 2" total lift on my truck with a Warn Zeon 10s in the factory steel bumper. I have since installed Airlift rear bags to help when I tow my 19' RV and motorcycle in the bed.

I'm still waiting for the correct spring solution to be brought to market from a manufacturer that I want to buy from. I know I need a much higher front spring rate and 10-20% more in the rear would be welcomed.

I'm almost 17,000 miles deep into this and I'm not happy. The front 2.5s out of the box do not have enough compression adjustment and more rebound damping is needed all the way around.

I reached out to Fox and got the standard corporate "We have never had anyone complain" response, but I did get to communicate with the service dept a bit. Of course they wanted me to sent them in........$35 per shock(Which is totally reasonable), but the insured shipping 2 ways would have brought the cost to about $400 and they advised it might take 3 times to get it perfect! Then add in 1-3 week turn around time plus a week each way in shipping? 6 weeks possibly? Doesn't work for me.........

I then asked for them to just sell me the parts and bill me for the tune time.......Long story short, I got a tune and I ordered a master shim kit......of course it was short many of the sizes in the tune!

I finally ended up with 95% of what I needed after 2 months waiting, so I had a go last week and did some driving today. Its much better, but still not great.

I've been researching this for months and watching videos. I'm a serious off road enthusiast, own an undercar repair shop that specializes in truck/Jeep drivetrain and suspension mods, but this is one field I lack experience in.........

Looking for others with the same truck that maybe has played with this a little to compare notes and can save me from pulling these things apart 10 times.....Maybe come up with the perfect solution for us JT guys.
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LostWoods

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I have a lot of experience under trucks in general and a fair bit of experience wrenching on desert trucks and I would never tune my own shocks... I've seen masters at work and it's definitely something best left to the professionals unless you know exactly what you're asking for. Making a truck ride like a caddy at 80+ mph through ocotillo is a work of art.

Adjusters on shocks are not really worth much because they don't give that much adjustment by design - you really need someone who can give you the right stacks to get you what you want but they'll never be the jack of all trades. If you tow you need a tight suspension while off roading desert requires another and bashing rocks requires still a different setup. No knob is going to give you that because it has more to do with the zones of the shock and the bumps.

What you buy off the shelf is designed to be a 75% setup for most people in most general uses, if you want better, you're going to have to start sacrificing.
 
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CrazyCooter

CrazyCooter

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I have a lot of experience under trucks in general and a fair bit of experience wrenching on desert trucks and I would never tune my own shocks... I've seen masters at work and it's definitely something best left to the professionals unless you know exactly what you're asking for. Making a truck ride like a caddy at 80+ mph through ocotillo is a work of art.

Adjusters on shocks are not really worth much because they don't give that much adjustment by design - you really need someone who can give you the right stacks to get you what you want but they'll never be the jack of all trades. If you tow you need a tight suspension while off roading desert requires another and bashing rocks requires still a different setup. No knob is going to give you that because it has more to do with the zones of the shock and the bumps.

What you buy off the shelf is designed to be a 75% setup for most people in most general uses, if you want better, you're going to have to start sacrificing.
Thanks for your input.

I didn't pop out of my mother a differential expert......I got that way by thinking outside the box, desire to do the best job possible, and years of experience.

That said, I'll probably never be a shock valving expert since my desire to work on stuff has long faded.......I do however drive the truck and have a good understanding of how things work, so I expect I could do it better than a guy that doesn't own or drive a JT trying to do it over the phone. Right now, I feel the fronts are close, but the rears still need a little work.

Fox missed the fronts by a mile and the sales guy on the phone told me there was plenty of adjustment for the weight of the diesel. I know now you can't put out one part number that fits 2 or 4 door JL, with 4 different engine options and JTs with 2 options.........not enough adjustment. I suspect most people who buy these 2.5s and 3.0s are crawling malls and wouldn't know the difference, so there isn't much negative feedback.
 

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I’m over here wondering how far over your GAWR you are with a 19’ travel trailer hooked up and a motorcycle in the bed. That poor axle and the weight bearing mount points must be screaming.
 

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I gave luke warm review on the 2.5 Fox shocks. I think they work good, my experience with my truck is I am using 75 percent of the adjustment with a simple 35" tire and 2 inch lift. Loaded or trail running I probably do not have much left. They do work well when set correctly and not over worked.
 
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CrazyCooter

CrazyCooter

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I gave luke warm review on the 2.5 Fox shocks. I think they work good, my experience with my truck is I am using 75 percent of the adjustment with a simple 35" tire and 2 inch lift. Loaded or trail running I probably do not have much left. They do work well when set correctly and not over worked.
My guess its that you have a gas truck? I would recommend calling Fox and providing feedback........They told me they had not gotten any feedback either way. They will never make a change if they don't get feedback right? 3k retail for these things, so they should perform decent out of the box in my opinion.

My front clickers were 100% turned in and I was still bouncing off my air bumps at low speeds especially with the tires aired down. I also felt they needed more rebound damping on the street which will probably get worse when I install firmer springs.......Any air in the bags it's much worse.

The front is much better after this tune I installed last week, but I'll be making changes to the rear again. Hard since I don't want to make more than one change to each circuit at a time with my inexperience.

I'm not the guy who wants to pound the whoops at 80mph, just need a good street driver than can make 700 mile weekends of lighter overland desert driving a better experience than stock.
 
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Rubi-Zero

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https://accutuneoffroad.com/
Obviously off the shelf shocks are not tuned to your vehicle, even if they are priced as premium.

Give Accu tune a call. They can tune them or maybe get you the right piston, and shims to properly valve them for your set up and needs.

I am looking to get this done as well or I may just have a set built from King, but I’m still debating on which route I’m taking. Covid is screwing up the build times so to get a set from King right now is a long wait.
 
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CrazyCooter

CrazyCooter

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https://accutuneoffroad.com/
Obviously off the shelf shocks are not tuned to your vehicle, even if they are priced as premium.

Give Accu tune a call. They can tune them or maybe get you the right piston, and shims to properly valve them for your set up and needs.

I am looking to get this done as well or I may just have a set built from King, but I’m still debating on which route I’m taking. Covid is screwing up the build times so to get a set from King right now is a long wait.
I found Accutune in my search for more info during this process. I would gladly have paid them retail for shocks shipped with a custom tune that works! I do however have a problem with calling them for info in this process since I get phone calls from people weekly asking for detailed instructions so they can build their own differential.....

Maybe Accutune would be willing to send me a tune for a fee that I could install in a couple of hours..... Of course IF he has not specifically tuned a JT set up like mine, it's just a guess. Then add in UPS and FedEx are loosing so many packages that I'm afraid to send these shocks anywhere because they may take a year to get replaced if they get lost......We have a lost package were trying to locate now and it was shipped out 40 days ago.....they want to just pay us off......No I need the stuff that was in that box!

It's not just King that is having supply chain issues.........I've had a set if Icon's back ordered since March and the client keeps bugging me about it. Pretty sure I'm on my way out of the aftermarket accessory business until this levels back out.......I told this guy 5 weeks would turn into 9 weeks which could turn into 9 months.....Here we are at 9 months and still waiting. I've been hearing anyone that is selling shocks with CD adjustments can't get the parts to build them.
 
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rharr

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There is a product called re-stackor, it's a valve modeling tool that lets you estimate end results of you shim shuffle based on valve setup, vehicle weight, spring rates ect..

A good thread over at one of the dirt bike forums about a guy who dove in feet first to learn it and share his process. The software should also work trucks cars ect.. cause it's all basically the same stuff.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1332438-2019-kx450-restackor-analysis/

the program
https://www.shimrestackor.com/

FYI, just did a rock krawler kit with their diesel springs and RRD shocks, seems pretty good so far, no dirt time yet. It's firmer then OEM. RK uses hypercoil proprietary springs and they are stout.

https://www.hypercoils.com/
 
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CrazyCooter

CrazyCooter

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There is a product called re-stackor, it's a valve modeling tool that lets you estimate end results of you shim shuffle based on valve setup, vehicle weight, spring rates ect..

A good thread over at one of the dirt bike forums about a guy who dove in feet first to learn it and share his process. The software should also work trucks cars ect.. cause it's all basically the same stuff.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1332438-2019-kx450-restackor-analysis/

the program
https://www.shimrestackor.com/

FYI, just did a rock krawler kit with their diesel springs and RRD shocks, seems pretty good so far, no dirt time yet. It's firmer then OEM. RK uses hypercoil proprietary springs and they are stout.

https://www.hypercoils.com/
I saw this software the other night! My concern is whether or not I could get the necessary inputs correct to get good info out of it? I have no idea what info about the shock internals would have to be done to get an accurate result.......

Fox is less than friendly with any info usable info. Their answer is send it in, pay, and wait till we send it back to you......We are the gods, so you will pay, wait, and like what we give you like a good peasant.

I have to think that if this software could allow us to make a good tune every time, we wouldn't need a tuner anymore? It cant be that easy!
 
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rharr

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I saw this software the other night! My concern is whether or not I could get the necessary inputs correct to get good info out of it? I have no idea what info about the shock internals would have to be done to get an accurate result.......Fox is less than friendly with any info usable info. Thier answer is send it in, pay, and wait till we send it back to you......We are the gods, so you will pay and wait.
take a look at the thumper talk thread, he goes into detail about what gets modeled. Basically get ready with the calipers.....

There is a local shop here that builds shocks and I asked him about software and he said, yeah that works to, but i just take it for a rip, note what i don't like, pull the shocks and adjust until i fix what i don't like.

Suspension tuning is a black art, and only by trial and error and self learning does one seem to figure it out. No one wants to share what they learn cause it will take away business. Posting a tuners secrete recipe for valve stack is a bit of a taboo in the motorbike world, these guys put the effort into doing the tune, they should get paid for the effort.

You may want to look into a racetech class, the theory class might give you a good baseline to do what you want.

https://racetech.com/page/id/27
 
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CrazyCooter

CrazyCooter

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take a look at the thumper talk thread, he goes into detail about what gets modeled. Basically get ready with the calipers.....

There is a local shop here that builds shocks and I asked him about software and he said, yeah that works to, but i just take it for a rip, note what i don't like, pull the shocks and adjust until i fix what i don't like.

Suspension tuning is a black art, and only by trial and error and self learning does one seem to figure it out. No one wants to share what they learn cause it will take away business. Posting a tuners secrete recipe for valve stack is a bit of a taboo in the motorbike world, these guys put the effort into doing the tune, they should get paid for the effort.

You may want to look into a racetech class, the theory class might give you a good baseline to do what you want.

https://racetech.com/page/id/27
I'll read through that thread tonight! Just the first couple of posts, I can tell my mind works like the OP even though I don't have "Engineer" in my title.

I own bikes too, so this info is all relevant and useful in applying it to all of my equipment.
 
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