Replacement window switches - that are DIFFERENT ??

[ShadowsPapa]

you’ve got a scosh more room on the 4xe - I believe the manual shifter is taller. it physically blocks the switches from being operated straight on. Hopefully it will be a simpler fix If you only need to modify the drivers window switch it.

Yeah, from the perspective of the photos, I believe the switches are a bit higher compared to the top of the auto shifter vs. compared to the top of the stick shifter. So it may be easier with an automatic. And once the automatic is put in drive, there's a ton of room. It's only moving it to or from park, or maybe going into reverse, where it would even be close.
Her license is restricted to an automatic. (I thought there was something about power windows and locks as well but I may be wrong on that.)
The front window switches are in the clear for the most part and the left side switches are a straight line reach (for a person with normal arms) in any case so the most important switches shouldn't be a problem as far as the shifter.
I didn't even drive a manual transmission JT because of my wife's restriction and because of towing so I can't say I know how close those would be, but the automatic shifter is short and not really in the way.

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[Hootbro]

The only real issues at this point are the window switches - which I also hate and believe are way too stiff and clumsy to operate.

I will give it to you that the window switches have a little more tension to operate that I am use to, but the thought of it being an issue that needs to be fixed never crossed my mind but I see your emotional investment to it is different than mine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I will give it to you that the window switches have a little more tension to operate that I am use to, but the thought of it being an issue that needs to be fixed never crossed my mind but I see your emotional investment to it is different than mine.

Yeah, for most folks it's a silly trivial thing. Some are likely thinking WTH????

But when you see others struggle with it, and think hard about it, you, ok, maybe just me, start to wonder - what the heck where they thinking with using valve springs for these switches?
Yeah, a gross exaggeration, but I guess my point is - that spring pressure is an exaggeration.

I know where you are coming from and even though I may make it hard to see, very UNobvious, (is that even a word??) my intent isn't to "argue" with you, it's just that like you said - we're approaching it from different angles.
I do take your points into consideration, doesn't matter if I agree or not - I know where you come from and are never anything but helpful, honest, and tossing out other points.

A 30 year old without arthritis, and with no birth defects or disabilities won't see any issue. Maybe they could think "gee, are sure strong switches to push" but that would be the end of it if they even gave it a thought. They push the switch, they pull the switch, that's it. And some will think like many Americans do - "I can do it, why can't EVERYBODY do it?". (and that could lead into a whole other discussion- but visit other places and that's what they often think of us)

With my hands being literally worn out from the decades of work that I do, I will reach a point where I won't be able to operate those switches myself. So I will likely made any such mod to my JT as well.
I already can't grip very well with my right hand. My father's hands were so worn out, by the time he was 80, he'd busted tendons in his hands and had surgery. After the third one, he said screw it, no more repairs. I have a tendon catching in my left hand where I can't re-straighten a finger without extreme pain. Decades of the work that I do.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have no idea why this popped into my head, just how my mind works, I guess..........
Bob Hearts Abishola. Douglas gets his hand caught in one of the machines, near amputation of fingers.
In the car while Bob is driving him to the hospital, Douglas says "I'll never play banjo again" and Bob replies "you don't play the banjo now".
Douglas responds - "see, it's totally off the table now".

 

[InvertedLogic]

Reading through this thread I can appreciate the care behind this request. There have been some great suggestions in this thread.

I'd personally start with keeping it simple for the switch extensions and using Sugru to fabricate a proof of concept and see if a lever extension that moves up and down is sufficient. It's easy to work with, easy to mold, and should be stiff enough for a few actuations at least. Not sure how it'll come off. If that works well, some sort of 3D printed extension and 3M taped in place would be ideal, but probably requires several iterations to get exactly right. I've got the CAD skills, but no 3D printer at my disposal otherwise it would be a fun challenge to solve.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Going to start with used switches. Due to how these are made, no way I'm putting anything on the new factory switches and have them damaged in any way.
My wife even suggested "you aren't going to experiment on these, are you - what if later we want to put it back to trade".
Nope, no experimenting will be done on the original switches.
All will be done on other switches so if something happens, it won't happen to the switches it came with. The covering on the switches is too fragile and easily damaged.

I'm going to draw something later tonight that MAY work if the leverage turns out ok.

 

[IamPro2A]

I suggested the sugru earlier.... not sure how well it would work with the rubberized coating on the switches though? It would be ugly, but easy to work with and it would certainly be proof of concept. You could even mold a light pipe in there for the light.

I just gotta say that threads like this one certainly restore a little faith in humanity. All these people coming together to crowdsource a solution to a problem none of us have.

 

[IamPro2A]

I will give it to you that the window switches have a little more tension to operate that I am use to, but the thought of it being an issue that needs to be fixed never crossed my mind but I see your emotional investment to it is different than mine.

I wonder if that tension is for a reason? Maybe to prevent switch bounce during hardcore off-roading?

 

[Erievon]

Well...I think their position is to prevent water getting to them or pooling in their valley. Switch tension though, I don't remember switch bounce being an issue on JKs and those were quite light.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I wonder if that tension is for a reason? Maybe to prevent switch bounce during hardcore off-roading?

Hardly. There's no mass to those switch levers. It takes mass plus velocity. You'd have to drop such a light object from a far greater height and change the velocity to 0 instantly to have them even move.
If you were to literally drop far enough to gain the velocity to overcome the inertia of those light plastic switch levers, it would be` a really short, momentary thing, and not move the windows at all. It would be like flicking the switch as fast as you could. Window won't react.
(I used to work with a guy who did drop testing of computer parts, electronics, keyboards, etc. and packaging materials to test for movement and damage. We'd package stuff, drop it 6' to concrete while measuring the effects.)
The off-roading to get a switch with even a lighter spring to move would have to be a heck of a drop, likely doing damage before a switch would move.
One early AM after an ice storm, my wife was driving us to work in our 2003 WJ. We were heading down the road that lead to the highway we took to get to town. 4 to 5% grade down that 1/4 mile hill to the highway. Suddenly my wife realized we were moving but it wasn't her making us move. We gained speed going down that hill. I said do not hit the brakes, just steer it if you can. We flew down the icy hill like kids on a sled and blew through the stop sign, jumped across the highway narrowly missing two big poles, flew over the embankment and landed several yards on the other side of the highway down in a wash area where I suspect the river used to flow centuries before. You had to look up to see the highway. We would have made the stunt drivers for the General Lee proud. She kept it upright. That was more than you'd do even with some rad wheeling or off-roading, but not enough to move any light plastic switch.

Well...I think their position is to prevent water getting to them or pooling in their valley. Switch tension though, I don't remember switch bounce being an issue on JKs and those were quite light.

Obviously, they needed to be off the doors for complexity of the door harness, and keep power out of the lock and window area as much as possible. Also to keep the doors light and simple. Totally get and actually appreciate that bit.
Position? I've wondered, I've looked and thought - where else would we put them. Looking over the dash layout - it's really hard to pick a spot on that crowded dash. As far as placement, they may have done as well as they could. Maybe it could be better, maybe not. The harness is something like 12 wires, a couple of them are probably roughly 14 or 12 gauge. That's a fair bundle, making it tougher to put them elsewhere. Central to all doors of course to keep wires short and harnesses smaller and lighter. Weight matters.

I really wish my wife had written half of the posts I've put in here. I talked with her last night as we ran some errands in my JT. I told her of many of the ideas (some good, some iffy, some she cringed at because she wants no damage to original parts - modify others, not these, swap in modified parts and set these back just in case)
She put it very well and so perfectly. She loves her Jeep, she's not complaining, she's simply asking for ways to make it easier to use the windows. It's not something she'd refuse to buy one of these over and she isn't complaining about it. Just needs some adaptive equipment. She worked Voc Rehab since she was 18. She was born with her handicap. So she worked there 40 years, and as far as her hands, knows nothing else. She knows about the adaptive equipment world and was friends with the guy who used to do that there.
She could type 90+ WPM when she was working full time. Her typing teacher taught her different methods than what's usually taught - adapting the normal finger placement to work for her.
She just asks - can this please be made easier/safer/better for people like her.
I don't think I've ever met another person with a more positive attitude.

Years ago one of the office chiefs retired and there was a big retirement party for the lady. I had only known Barbara for a few months. I went to that part with her. There was a guy who played guitar and did some party game things at the party - yeah, Hokey-Pokey. He did all the usual with legs, feet, arms, then he said "you put your right thumb out..........." and Barbara interrupted him blurting out "what if you don't have any thumbs". The room went totally quiet - not a whisper. Then suddenly the lady who was retiring said "that's the first time I've ever seen Jeff at a loss for words" and everyone broke out laughing, including Barbara. The poor guy didn't know how to take it.
When anyone does the "give me 5" bit, she says - can't, but I'll give you 3 and some change.

 

[IamPro2A]

Hardly. There's no mass to those switch levers. It takes mass plus velocity. You'd have to drop such a light object from a far greater height and change the velocity to 0 instantly to have them even move.

Just spitballin' before I had my morning coffee.
Wondering what the engineering reason was for making them so much harder to push (or pull) than previous models.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Just spitballin' before I had my morning coffee.
Wondering what the engineering reason was for making them so much harder to push (or pull) than previous models.

Like I suggested earlier, knowing how these things go sometimes, it could be an individual at FCA simply spec'd switches that way - no particular reason other than he liked the feel.

I've asked - why this design and why not simple rockers.
I could only come up with one answer and it's a guess as well - accidentally hitting the switches while shifting the manual transmissions while navigating one of the trails Indiana Jones took.
It's not near close enough to bump with an automatic shifter - they are too high for that (and the distance doesn't really work out unless you have huge fingers and fat knuckles)
So why this design at all?
MAYBE, it's for using the switches while on washboard roads. A softer spring would mean you'd bounce on the switch as you hit bumps.
Yeah, I'm reaching, too........
Since none of the above is any sort of problem in our case, doesn't matter. We'll make them better for people who aren't driving these off cliffs onto washboard roads and trying to roll windows up or down while doing so.

 

[JeepTaco]

With my wife's handicap, she can't easily reach and pull up on those hard to operate window switches clear in the middle, clear up front, that you have to hook a finger under and pull up to raise the window.

Does anyone make a replacement switch set that is more of a rocker or toggle and not a push/pull switch?
I get the location (sort of) but the type of switch is just dumb if you don't have good working fingers and dexterity.

So looking for a set of switches that replace the originals - do not want simply another set of Jeep switches, that can be operated easily - easy to move, don't have to hook a finger under and pull hard.
(even I hate the switches themselves - could be a lot easier to operate, take less pressure, softer switches, rockers. )

If not, I may have to drill into these and put some sort of thing on them that extends them out more like a toggle switch with some LEVERAGE.

Would something like this work?
https://a-premium.com/product/Front...uZ9LAY6sK4t9xEcF30qX3gx_nPnBH_NkaAu-qEALw_wcB

Been loooking at different sites to see if anyone makes the switch panel for JL/JT but coming up short.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Would something like this work?
https://a-premium.com/product/Front...uZ9LAY6sK4t9xEcF30qX3gx_nPnBH_NkaAu-qEALw_wcB

Been loooking at different sites to see if anyone makes the switch panel for JL/JT but coming up short.

Good question. I've been looking to see if there was an "after-market" power window kit for the JT or JL thinking they'd likely have their own switches (cheaper for them to make and supply than buying or supplying OEM MOPAR switches).
Nothing. I was thinking if there was a power window conversion kit, say, for a basic Sport JT - maybe the switches would be lighter and easier. But so far, nothing.

I have also wondered about the JK switches - I could swear someone said they were easier to push, didn't have a stiff spring but I can't recall the switches on a JK, my Jeep driving and repair experiences predates the JK by quite a bit so other than my brother's - and I didn't ride in or drive it - I can't say I know what those switches are like.
But pictures, and assuming they may be lighter, I wondered.
The only thing may be the depth. I've not seen the back side. The JT and JL have very little space behind the switch array. The connector on the back points down. The wiring harness goes into it from the bottom up, not directly into it from the back.
In fact by the time you shove the 3W harness in back there, there's no room left for air.

(switch panel tilted down. The big harness goes into the switches from the bottom.
Blue is the 12v outlet)

I also question the switch operation - since I do not personally know how the JK switches work.
The JT and JL switches have 4 positions.

• Center or neutral, off, not operating the windows (at rest position)
• Pull out/up to raise the window.
• Push in to first detent only to lower window until you let go
• Push in to second detent to engage auto-down mode, window keeps going down until it stops.

So if the JK didn't have auto-down front windows, it won't accommodate that function of the JT/JL
If the JK did have auto-down front windows, then all a person has to do is figure the pin-out of the JK compared to the JL/JT and make an adapter.
If it didn't, that lets that out - bummer.
Since I honestly don't know the JK well at all - I can't comment on that or answer those questions about the JK switches.
But - that style would in their native form be easier to operate, and even easier to modify to a rocker type situation instead of their present toggle design.

Executive summary - I don't know the JK, can't say how they'd work in a JL or JT. I don't know if the JK had auto-down front windows.
But the appearance alone would seem to make them easier to use or modify.

 

[IamPro2A]

Sadly, our JK has manual windows (and everything else. Special ordered the way the boss lady wanted it), so no help there.

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