"Sport S,ing" a Rubicon . . . ? and Towing Thoughts

[futzin']

I've seen the discussions of adding Rubicon suspension components to a Sport S for added off-road capability. Here's a silly thought . . . But what about the possibility of "de-Rubiconning" the suspension in the interest of increasing towing/payload? I know it sounds silly, but I thought I'd throw it out there for giggles. I'm obviously not a hard core wheeler, huh?

There are some options offered for the Rubi that are not offered on the S that I'd like to have.

Exceedingly unlikely that anyone, including me, would ever do this, but thanks for humoring me!

Another question, and it speaks more to my situation I suppose: The Rubi has a lesser tow and payload rating due to off-road suspension components, primarily. Same engine, tranny, and gear ratio. The question: If you hook up 5K of weight to each, would you feel a seat-of-the-pants difference in acceleration/power?

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[Kjm18]

I've seen the discussions of adding Rubicon suspension components to a Sport S for added off-road capability. Here's a silly thought . . . But what about the possibility of "de-Rubiconning" the suspension in the interest of increasing towing/payload? I know it sounds silly, but I thought I'd throw it out there for giggles. I'm obviously not a hard core wheeler, huh?

There are some options offered for the Rubi that are not offered on the S that I'd like to have.

Exceedingly unlikely that anyone, including me, would ever do this, but thanks for humoring me!

Another question, and it speaks more to my situation I suppose: The Rubi has a lesser tow and payload rating due to off-road suspension components, primarily. Same engine, tranny, and gear ratio. The question: If you hook up 5K of weight to each, would you feel a seat-of-the-pants difference in acceleration/power?

I'm no expert, but I don't think the suspension is the issue. It's the added weight from all of the armor underneath the Rubicon. If you removed the off roading armor/protection stuff underneath you're going to get pretty close to Sport S for towing and payload.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Primarily the tow rating on a Rubicon is derated because it weighs more. I don't think the suspension has much if anything to do with it.

Lockers, skid plates, bumpers, sway bar disconnect, rock rails, hood, wider axles, all add up to that 650 pounds I imagine.

More importantly since the notion that a Gladiator will actually tow 7000, much less 7650 without substantial distress is largely garbage, I think the whole point is moot.

 

[futzin']

Hadn't figured the plates mattering that much to the ratings. Figure the Rubi would have more rear end sag, for one thing. Maybe not. Figure the lesser rating of the Rubi is a safety thing, more than a performance thing. That's fine, safety first, especially when towing! Kinda like the diesel having more power but less tow rating. At 5K lbs, that diesel should WAY out-tow the Pentastar.

Essentially, I guess the question is: Is there a way to enhance/improve towing in a Rubicon? Since there's no option for a V-8 (had to throw that in there)!

 

[futzin']

More importantly since the notion that a Gladiator will actually tow 7000, much less 7650 without substantial distress is largely garbage, I think the whole point is moot.

Yes, I'm watching the Towing threads very closely.

 

[Up venture]

Hadn't figured the plates mattering that much to the ratings. Figure the Rubi would have more rear end sag, for one thing. Maybe not. Figure the lesser rating of the Rubi is a safety thing, more than a performance thing. That's fine, safety first, especially when towing! Kinda like the diesel having more power but less tow rating. At 5K lbs, that diesel should WAY out-tow the Pentastar.

Essentially, I guess the question is: Is there a way to enhance/improve towing in a Rubicon? Since there's no option for a V-8 (had to throw that in there)!

The issue on the diesel is probably once again additional weight and then the issue of cooling. Loading the gas and the diesel the same the diesel would probably out perform the gas. Jeep has liabilities to watch for safety factors for the occupants and for the life of the vehicle. This is a midsize truck it's going to perform as such. You want more you need to look at a half-ton or bigger

 

[futzin']

I do not need, or want, a 1500 truck. Don't need a mid-sized truck either. I love the open air of the JT, just wanna make sure it will do what I want for what I will have to pay for it.

OK, that's out of the way.

Another weird idea: what about swapping the rear end in an Overland with 4.10s? And adding any necessary cooling. Disregarding warranty issues . . .
Would that effectively raise the tow rating of the Overland to 7600?

 

[spazzyfry123]

Sounds like a lot of work to find another 600 lbs of towing capacity.

Do the tires on a Rubicon play a factor as well?

 

[bgenlvtex]

Yes, I'm watching the Towing threads very closely.

Just accept that towing in excess of 5k for more than brief periods isn't going to work and you'll be fine.

 

[futzin']

Sounds like a lot of work to find another 600 lbs of towing capacity.

Very true. But again, there are options that I want that are not available on the Sport S. So I thought it might be interesting to kick around for those that aren't out playing in their JTs!

Also factoring in this is the reduced payload of the Rubi/Overland vs. the Sport S Max Tow.

Just accept that towing in excess of 5k for more than brief periods isn't going to work and you'll be fine.

I guess I'm wondering about the capability of the Rubi vs. the Sport S with say, 5K lbs and 2 people in the cab and some moderate gear in the bed. Call it 5K total in trailer and people/gear for simplicity. Would the Rubi struggle and the Sport S not, for instance? Would there even be a noticeable difference at that weight? Hence why I'm watching all the real world towing info I can find.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

I’m confused like a baby in a gentleman’s club.

The Sport S with the max towing option gets you the Rubicon wide track Dana 44’s front and rear with 4.10 ratio. Pretty much giving up the lockers is all. You can add a locker carrier and mopar offers a kit for locker control.

The tires, springs and dampers on the Rubicon are in all likelihood tuned to be soft and slow relatively speaking, to be highly compliant to dynamic terrain as the engineers might say. Between all the bolt on steel and the off road suspension you give up 600 pounds of potential towing and a good deal of payload. Shoving all this gear onto a lesser truck would just make it more Rubicon like where as shoveling max tow suspension would just make a Rubicon be less capable out on the ends of the envelope while still being able to haul and tow less per the door tag. No amount of thrown money is going to make that number change. Off highway and on your own time you can load it until it sits on the bump stops and Jeep will politely nod and say well would you look at that but until you pay to go through ASE testing and get some PE stamps, a rubi will always do less on road and more off-road.

Now for the 5k sled pull, if you pitted a max tow sport s against a Rubicon with towing, assuming an auto tranny in both and all things being equal, the sport s would have a slight advantage based on tire diameter, each rotation of the small tire, measured at the contact face, will cover less distance and will thus take less time but it’s only a wee amount. You’ll lose some draw bar force in suspension compression and tire weight as well with the rubi but not enough to keep me up at night.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Hence why I'm watching all the real world towing info I can find.

You're not alone my man.

I am going to be using mine to commute between my address in Alaska and my address in Texas, a little over 4000 miles one way by land taking the most direct route, and I have no intention of taking the shortest route.

I am studying travel trailers in the 4,000 pound class dry, and studying them hard. There are lots of them out there all of them a compromise. If I was needing to buy today it would be an R-Pod 195 or a Rockwood Mini Lite 2109S.

I have not seen anyone indicate they had much struggle below 5k, I think that is a pretty god number, so the trailer is going to have to start at no more than 4000-4200. I'm pretty confident that is a workable weight range being about 60% of advertised tow capacity. for Rubicon

 

[Alaska-HWY JK]

Just over 4200 lbs. 20 gal water, 2 x20 lbs C3, fridge full, gear and beer. I’m wanting a bit bigger but sceptical about getting in the 5000 lbs range. We only drag it about 70 miles. I’d like to try a bit further this summer if I get weather and time. Pulls better than my JK on 37’s with 5.13s but not great. Can’t imagine 35’s or 37’s without a regear. This trailer is 2900 lbs dry.

 

[Pk2abilene]

Just over 4200 lbs. 20 gal water 2 x20 lbs C3 fridge full gear and beer. I’m wanting a bit bigger but sceptical about getting in the 5000 lbs range. We only drag it about 70 miles. I’d like to try a bit further this summer if I get weather and time. Pulls better than my JK on 37’s with 5.13s but not great. Can’t imagine 35’s or 37’s without a regear. This trailer is 2900 lbs dry.

The gladiator is a small truck. Those max tow numbers aren’t realistic if you are on anything other than flat ground or willing to keep it slow. 5k tops. That’s why I’m waiting for the diesel. It will pull 5k which is all the chassis and breaks should be doing anyway.

 

[Hootbro]

If 650 lbs is the margins to make or break it for me with payload or towing, I would be looking for another vehicle. Quite frankly, I do not like going over 75% of rated capacity to begin with, let alone taking it to the max limit.

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