Trading gas for diesel

adbeck

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Is anyone trading a gas gladiator for a diesel. Trying to understand the benefit for going with diesel vs gas.



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Mr._Bill

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Is anyone trading a gas gladiator for a diesel. Trying to understand the benefit for going with diesel vs gas.
The benefit is the higher torque and the greater fuel efficiency. To trade just for the fuel economy is a losing proposition.
 

AzRob

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Add the $4000 premium for the engine.....$220 for the oil changes at the dealer..... figure in the added price of DEF to filling your gas tank.

I thought for about 2 minutes, "maybe I want to wait for a diesel" before I bought my gasser new in July.

Adding the $4k to my window sticker would have put me at $64k MSRP.

Hard pass.... no thanks.... not for me.

BUT... there are many people on here that think this is the best thing ever and Im happy for them. It seems like it's exactly what they want to run the biggest tires and have better performance while towing..... Like I said " just not for me." Im not towing much and not looking for the monster truck tires.
 

12BNNT

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Here’s the way I look at it.... fuel mileage increase is not gonna earn back the initial outlay and extra maintenance costs over the common time of ownership for most people. Some may keep the truck for 10 plus years and actually recoup the cost by way of fuel savings but for most people it’s not going to happen.
But, for some, the increased range and the increased low end torque for rock crawling or towing is worth the extra cost.
Think of it this way, (not really an apples to apples comparison but) if your towing a camper and have to choose between a half ton or 3/4 ton truck, it’s gonna depend on how much you’re towing and how often. If your camper is close to the 1/2 tons limit but only towing a short way a couple times a year, save the money and get the 1/2 ton but if you’re towing further and more often, you’d be better to spend the extra for the bigger truck that can tow the camper like it’s not even there.

Personally, I’m considering a diesel for the extra range and the power to tow the camper easier. It may get a little better mileage but costs more so I consider the cost/savings a wash, however It won’t struggle to pull the trailer cross country like the gasser. The gasser did fine but was running 4th gear at 5000 rpm up hill in Wyoming and South Dakota last month and showing current mileage of 4 doing it. Averaged 9mpg towing 5k camper at 70-75 from St. Louis to Yellowstone last month. Will the eco diesel get better mileage towing? Maybe. Will it pull the trailer easier? I would think so. I could buy a 1/2 ton full sized truck with more amenities for a few thousand more and get better mileage than my JTR and have an easier time towing my camper but the JTR is multifunctional for me by way of being a daily driver that’s easier to park and maneuver than a full sized truck, it’s my off road toy And my towing vehicle all in one. Adding a few grand to the cost to make it better at all three (towing, crawling, and daily mileage and range) makes the diesel cost worth it to me. If your looking at the diesel to save money on a strictly daily driver with a bed, then it’s not worth it.
 

WXman

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We've hashed this out so many times it hurts. But from a post in this forum a year ago, updated with more accurate numbers:

According to the U.S. EIA, the avg. national price for 87 octane pump gas is 2.62 and diesel is 3.01 as of today. That's a $0.39 price difference per gallon.

Using numbers from a current EcoDiesel Ram vs. Pentastar Gladiator, there is a 5 MPG difference between the gas and diesel (taken from fueleconomy.gov) and that "combined" figure on the window sticker most closely matches what the average U.S. driver will see.

Let's do basic math:

15,000 miles per year/24 MPG = 625 gallons of diesel @ 3.01/gallon = $1,881 annually

15,000 miles per year/19 MPG = 789 gallons of gasoline @ 2.62/gallon = $2,067 annually

EcoDiesel is +$186 annually at this point

Then:

EcoDiesel oil change = 9 quarts @ $7/ea = $63 + Mopar oil filter @ $45 x twice annually = $216

Pentastar oil change = 5 quarts @ $3/ea = $15 + Mopar oil filter @ $10 = $25 x twice annually = $50

EcoDiesel is now +$20 per year (but we've not accounted for the $40 fuel filter annually to keep it simple, and, this assumes doing the oil change at home with the least expensive materials that meet manual specs)

Then:

Upfront cost of EcoDiesel $4,000 / 7 years (average ownership length of a new car in the U.S.) = $571 annually (This assumes the buyer would have ordered the auto trans. regardless of engine)

EcoDiesel is now -$551 annually

So, if you keep the EcoD for 7 years, you end up paying over $500 EXTRA yearly to drive the EcoDiesel over the Pentastar, which doesn't seem as bad as I expected. But, you certainly will not ever save money with the EcoDiesel. It's an expense, not a savings to go diesel.

The wildcard we haven't mentioned here is average cost of repairs. A lot of owners of diesels with the Bosch CP4 injection pumps have said that when theirs failed, the automaker denied warranty coverage and claimed "bad fuel" as a way to get out of paying for it. The $8,000 to $12,000 tab was then picked up by the insurance company in some cases, which surely would lead to a "hit" on your policy and a subsequent increase in rates. There are a lot of things like injection pumps, injectors, emissions controls, etc. on the diesel that simply cost more over time.

Many 2020 EcoDiesel owners have already reported timing cover failures, CAC hose leaks, turbo errors, EGR issues, and a couple of blown engines.

So the bottom line is, NEVER ever go with the diesel because of money. You'll spend more, you will never save. With the EcoDiesel, payload is less, towing is less, fuel is harder to locate, and expense of ownership is more. So, the only real reason to buy it is subjective, i.e. you like the feel of the engine when you drive it.
 
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adbeck

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We've hashed this out so many times it hurts. But from a post in this forum a year ago, updated with more accurate numbers:

According to the U.S. EIA, the avg. national price for 87 octane pump gas is 2.62 and diesel is 3.01 as of today. That's a $0.39 price difference per gallon.

Using numbers from a current EcoDiesel Ram vs. Pentastar Gladiator, there is a 5 MPG difference between the gas and diesel (taken from fueleconomy.gov) and that "combined" figure on the window sticker most closely matches what the average U.S. driver will see.

Let's do basic math:

15,000 miles per year/24 MPG = 625 gallons of diesel @ 3.01/gallon = $1,881 annually

15,000 miles per year/19 MPG = 789 gallons of gasoline @ 2.62/gallon = $2,067 annually

EcoDiesel is +$186 annually at this point

Then:

EcoDiesel oil change = 9 quarts @ $7/ea = $63 + Mopar oil filter @ $45 x twice annually = $216

Pentastar oil change = 5 quarts @ $3/ea = $15 + Mopar oil filter @ $10 = $25 x twice annually = $50

EcoDiesel is now +$20 per year (but we've not accounted for the $40 fuel filter annually to keep it simple, and, this assumes doing the oil change at home with the least expensive materials that meet manual specs)

Then:

Upfront cost of EcoDiesel $4,000 / 7 years (average ownership length of a new car in the U.S.) = $571 annually (This assumes the buyer would have ordered the auto trans. regardless of engine)

EcoDiesel is now -$551 annually

So, if you keep the EcoD for 7 years, you end up paying over $500 EXTRA yearly to drive the EcoDiesel over the Pentastar, which doesn't seem as bad as I expected. But, you certainly will not ever save money with the EcoDiesel. It's an expense, not a savings to go diesel.

The wildcard we haven't mentioned here is average cost of repairs. A lot of owners of diesels with the Bosch CP4 injection pumps have said that when theirs failed, the automaker denied warranty coverage and claimed "bad fuel" as a way to get out of paying for it. The $8,000 to $12,000 tab was then picked up by the insurance company in some cases, which surely would lead to a "hit" on your policy and a subsequent increase in rates. There are a lot of things like injection pumps, injectors, emissions controls, etc. on the diesel that simply cost more over time.

Many 2020 EcoDiesel owners have already reported timing cover failures, CAC hose leaks, turbo errors, EGR issues, and a couple of blown engines.

So the bottom line is, NEVER ever go with the diesel because of money. You'll spend more, you will never save. With the EcoDiesel, payload is less, towing is less, fuel is harder to locate, and expense of ownership is more. So, the only real reason to buy it is subjective, i.e. you like the feel of the engine when you drive it.
I agree that it’s never a “it will pay for itself over time” thing. I’m just trying to figure out who the diesel is made for if towing and payload are both less and there is an overall higher cost of ownership.
 

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I had been hearing about issues with clogged DPF's . Any truth to this?
Seems like a nightmare in the making.
 

TheSolarWizard

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I think the diesel will pay for itself in fuel savings IF we‘re comparing two jeeps on 37” or larger tires. In my observation the average mpg of a JT on 37s is around 16.5 unless you’re like most Americans and its e15 mix instead of real 87 octane in which case you can either run premium to avoid it or expect closer to 15mpg

i personally know two JL diesel owners on big tires and have spent considerable seat time in both. Not only do they flat out embarrass the v6 in terms of performance, but the JL on 37s routinely sees 24mpg hand calculated and the one on 40s makes around 21.


15000/23 (subtracting 1mpg from JL to JT) = 652 x 3.01 = $1963
15000/15 x $2.69 = $2690
15000/16.5 x $2.94 (figuring $.25 delta for premium fuel) = $2672

in Vegas where I’ve been working all summer, diesel is actually cheaper than 87 in most areas.

im confident In these numbers being close to accurate and if that’s the case, $700 savings per year x 7 years = $4900. theres obviously a big difference in terms of maintenance costs but not enough to to catch up to that.

If you sell the Jeep during the drivetrain warranty period you’re almost assured of retaining the entirety of the upfront investment anyway, especially in rubicon trim. If Diesel Rubicon Gladiator doesn’t make your peener tingle, then maybe you’re not a “real” jeep person but I assure you, for a lot of people it will.


nonetheless buying the diesel for me is about the way a diesel drives.
id buy one if fuel mileage was half the gasser.
 

hayasa

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Seems to me that the "range" between the gas and the diesel on the Gladiator are roughly the same (~500 miles per tank). The diesel's slightly greater fuel economy is offset by the smaller tank since they had to shrink it to add the DEF tank. So that is a wash.

There are other costs with owning a diesel, too. Coming from a diesel Grand Cherokee, I was really surprised by not only the cost of oil changes every 10K miles ($200 or more since the filters at $80 a pop) but at also the fuel filer changes every 20K for an additional $200. So be prepared for those $400 "services" on top of the other routine maintenance issues.

But In the end, we went with a diesel in the GC because I just loved the feel of the torque rush and my wife wanted something with better fuel economy for environmental reasons. Driving a regular non-turbo car just feels weird to me.
 

Rubi_Rhod

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I traded my Colorado Diesel in for my JT.

I loved the torque. Loved the fuel economy. But emissions made it a very expensive truck right at the 70k mark. So while it was cheaper at the pump, in all ways it was more of a hassle and a cost. Diesels have a pretty grim outlook with hybrids coming in. As the electrics give you that torque boost, and then the mileage boost, but don’t have crippling and very expensive emissions.

Diesels are really awesome. Love em. But after treatments and ultra low emissions requirements really causes long term durability concerns.
 

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Live in a state where cost of Diesel is about the same as gas and there isn't emissions testing? Drive it for 15 years and you might save money (if you don't count interest).

As TheSolarWizard said, I'd get it even if that weren't the case. Drive a pentastar JL and then an ecodiesel one. No comparison.
 

WXman

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I agree that it’s never a “it will pay for itself over time” thing. I’m just trying to figure out who the diesel is made for if towing and payload are both less and there is an overall higher cost of ownership.
It's made for the enthusiasts who remember the 1980s and 1990s when diesel was THE way to go and they've been begging Jeep for a diesel since then.

Unfortunately, Jeep waited about 20 years too late. Now, the EGR, DPF, SCR, backpressure valve, etc. in the exhaust system has destroyed every reason to go with diesel from an objective standpoint. They're problematic, expensive, and don't get the fuel efficiency they should.

If you delete the entire exhaust system and have the powertrain calibration tuned, then you've got something very special. But, the EPA hates that and it can lead to problems.

I picked up the new diesel because I like to experience new things and do YouTube reviews on them. This will likely be my last diesel ever. The K.I.S.S. principle applies here and I'm going with a port injection, push rod, V8 next time around whether it be a Hemi in a Jeep (hopefully) or whether I have to jump ship and switch brands.
 

GoVR46

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I traded my Colorado Diesel in for my JT.

I loved the torque. Loved the fuel economy. But emissions made it a very expensive truck right at the 70k mark. So while it was cheaper at the pump, in all ways it was more of a hassle and a cost. Diesels have a pretty grim outlook with hybrids coming in. As the electrics give you that torque boost, and then the mileage boost, but don’t have crippling and very expensive emissions.

Diesels are really awesome. Love em. But after treatments and ultra low emissions requirements really causes long term durability concerns.
I agree.
My sights were on the diesel at one time, but now I think the hybrid is the way to go.
Instant torque, good gas mileage, Ok E range (25 miles) that errands around town wouldn’t use any gas. Also me coming from a performance turbo shop would tune the engine for more boost (power).
 

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It's made for the enthusiasts who remember the 1980s and 1990s when diesel was THE way to go and they've been begging Jeep for a diesel since then.

Unfortunately, Jeep waited about 20 years too late. Now, the EGR, DPF, SCR, backpressure valve, etc. in the exhaust system has destroyed every reason to go with diesel from an objective standpoint. They're problematic, expensive, and don't get the fuel efficiency they should.

If you delete the entire exhaust system and have the powertrain calibration tuned, then you've got something very special. But, the EPA hates that and it can lead to problems.

I picked up the new diesel because I like to experience new things and do YouTube reviews on them. This will likely be my last diesel ever. The K.I.S.S. principle applies here and I'm going with a port injection, push rod, V8 next time around whether it be a Hemi in a Jeep (hopefully) or whether I have to jump ship and switch brands.
This is where I'm at with the Gladiator at the moment. I like the idea of the diesel for the added torque and ease of towing vs the 3.6, but the complexity of the exhaust is a downside. I leased mine, and still have a few years on it so I can see what's out then, but I would be really happy if they decided to put a 5.7 hemi in it as an option from the factory. I think the higher HP V8 would be better for the fire roads and dessert trails I'd prefer to run instead of rock crawling.
 

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