Well, the end is near...for an affordable Wrangler

[ScottBeach]

Snow? That happens?

Has solar improved enough ?

Sponsored

 

[Teqsand]

What is most irritating is the small mindedness by an agenda driven group that arrogance to think that electric cars are "the answer" and are willing to destroy all else in pursuit of that narrow view...
Think back for a moment when this same crew made us give up incandescent bulbs for "the answer" which was CFL. CFL was the WORST solution they could have come up with...

Toyota is looking at hydrogen and other alternatives... hell we could have locomotive style vehicles with electric motors powering the wheels and a bio fuel diesel as the generator...
But this crew is using the (been changing since day 1) climate crap to eliminate every option other than thier desired one.... and hey, only an idiot things batteries are clean and help us with national security.....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Snow? That happens?

Has solar improved enough ?

Sorry, I guess you'll have to keep the sand and seagull poop cleaned off?
OTOH, depending on being a panhandle or a peninsula person, frost can happen.

Not commonplace yet, but new technology is coming out for solar soon.
Pyramidal lenses means a panel 1/3 the size of older technology can put out the same energy.
MIT and Northwestern have some real promising technology - one able to transform almost any surface into a solar cell.
I guess for me that would mean keeping my Jeep in the garage, or clearing off all snow and frost from all surfaces, not just the windshield.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What is most irritating is the small mindedness by an agenda driven group that arrogance to think that electric cars are "the answer" and are willing to destroy all else in pursuit of that narrow view...
Think back for a moment when this same crew made us give up incandescent bulbs for "the answer" which was CFL. CFL was the WORST solution they could have come up with...

Toyota is looking at hydrogen and other alternatives... hell we could have locomotive style vehicles with electric motors powering the wheels and a bio fuel diesel as the generator...
But this crew is using the (been changing since day 1) climate crap to eliminate every option other than thier desired one.... and hey, only an idiot things batteries are clean and help us with national security.....

CFL was never a solution, always an interim bit.
We used CFL for a short time and moved quickly to LED. We've cut energy cost and I have not changed a bulb in - well, I honestly can't recall the last time I changed a bulb in our house.

Hate much?

I spend a lot of my down time digging and reading and researching. It helps take away the raw hate when I learn the truths out there. When you've been where I've been and seen what I've seen - you see a truth that's somewhere in the middle and realize the polarization of each side is keeping people from seeing the reality. In other words, both sides are wrong.

Companies have been looking at hydrogen for many years - what Toyota is doing is not new or unique. In fact, almost all companies have been looking to alternatives.
Big downsides to hydrogen at the moment include the fact that it's very difficult to store in cryogenic or high-pressure tanks. It's a bomb. You have to super-cool it or compress it beyond current abilities for small scale use like cars. Hydrogen has a low volumetric energy density so you have to highly compress it in a high pressure tank to get the same range as a gas powered car.
For a car, we're talking 10,000 psi.

We must consider the cost and inefficiencies of generating hydrogen - electrolysis is one method, steam forming using natural gas to extract hydrogen another..
Electrolysis uses a lot of electricity. That means more power generation is needed to extract hydrogen.
It is considered a 0 emissions fuel in the end - but what about producing it? Do we have good data on that?
Production and transportation of hydrogen have to be ramped up, and like electricity, you need the infrastructure.
CA seems to be ahead of the curve there.

FCEVs are still electric vehicles. The range so far is less than straight EVs, though. OTOH, they can be refilled in minutes compared to hours for an EV.
It takes about $80 to charge a hydrogen powered car compared to a small fraction of that for a pure EV. (we can go 26 miles on $1.19 in a Wrangler)
Hydrogen cars are much more dangerous - danger of shock combined with hydrogen. They are also a lot more expensive to make than an EV or ICE vehicle.
People already balk at the cost of an EV.

• They are complex, and expensive to build. Rumor has it that hydrogen cars cost more to make than they are sold for.
• Hydrogen is flammable and therefore dangerous if not properly stored or handled.
• Hydrogen has to be highly compressed for road use. This adds yet more complexity, and any distribution network for hydrogen has to handle this high-pressure gas.
• Producing hydrogen on an industrial scale uses large amounts of fossil fuels. Renewable methods exist, but they are more expensive, and hydrogen is mainly produced using CO2 intensive methods.

In places like Korea, you see pretty much every taxi being powered by propane. And stations that can refill a propane powered vehicle are everywhere.

 

[Teqsand]

CFL was never a solution, always an interim bit.
We used CFL for a short time and moved quickly to LED. We've cut energy cost and I have not changed a bulb in - well, I honestly can't recall the last time I changed a bulb in our house.

Hate much?

I spend a lot of my down time digging and reading and researching. It helps take away the raw hate when I learn the truths out there. When you've been where I've been and seen what I've seen - you see a truth that's somewhere in the middle and realize the polarization of each side is keeping people from seeing the reality. In other words, both sides are wrong.

Companies have been looking at hydrogen for many years - what Toyota is doing is not new or unique. In fact, almost all companies have been looking to alternatives.
Big downsides to hydrogen at the moment include the fact that it's very difficult to store in cryogenic or high-pressure tanks. It's a bomb. You have to super-cool it or compress it beyond current abilities for small scale use like cars. Hydrogen has a low volumetric energy density so you have to highly compress it in a high pressure tank to get the same range as a gas powered car.
For a car, we're talking 10,000 psi.

We must consider the cost and inefficiencies of generating hydrogen - electrolysis is one method, steam forming using natural gas to extract hydrogen another..
Electrolysis uses a lot of electricity. That means more power generation is needed to extract hydrogen.
It is considered a 0 emissions fuel in the end - but what about producing it? Do we have good data on that?
Production and transportation of hydrogen have to be ramped up, and like electricity, you need the infrastructure.
CA seems to be ahead of the curve there.

FCEVs are still electric vehicles. The range so far is less than straight EVs, though. OTOH, they can be refilled in minutes compared to hours for an EV.
It takes about $80 to charge a hydrogen powered car compared to a small fraction of that for a pure EV. (we can go 26 miles on $1.19 in a Wrangler)
Hydrogen cars are much more dangerous - danger of shock combined with hydrogen. They are also a lot more expensive to make than an EV or ICE vehicle.
People already balk at the cost of an EV.

• They are complex, and expensive to build. Rumor has it that hydrogen cars cost more to make than they are sold for.
• Hydrogen is flammable and therefore dangerous if not properly stored or handled.
• Hydrogen has to be highly compressed for road use. This adds yet more complexity, and any distribution network for hydrogen has to handle this high-pressure gas.
• Producing hydrogen on an industrial scale uses large amounts of fossil fuels. Renewable methods exist, but they are more expensive, and hydrogen is mainly produced using CO2 intensive methods.

In places like Korea, you see pretty much every taxi being powered by propane. And stations that can refill a propane powered vehicle are everywhere.

You're correct CFL was never a solution, UT it was pushed as a replacement... the Toyota hydrogen example was just that, an example of an alternative... but let's be very candid here, this admin has set the standard that the only option for the car makers is ELECTRIC by saying that 50% of all new vehicles sales must be electric. That is forcing and not actually inovating... nit to mention about nowhere has the grid to handle that level, nit the ability to generate the needed power. ..

I live in calif, we get told to turn off AC and not charge vehicles because the grid is woefully incapable of handling the few we do have

We won't even get into senior trucks and the problems associated there.... less range and capacity means more trucks

 

[Chunky White]

New Jeeps are far from affordable for most people now. My first Jeep was a 94 YJ that only had 21000 miles and was 2 years old when it was bought for $12,500 in 96'.

I have not ridden in a 4XE yet but my neighbor loves his 4xe JLU.

 

[ScottBeach]

Base jeep. 2 door no options is basically the same price as 1992. Then like now. Easy to double the price of a jeep. No 4 door. No JT. No rubicon -wth! No adapitve cruise. No dana 44 from the factory. No freedom tops. Hell no hard tops as i recall. If we wanted a hard top it was after market

 

[RacerAV]

That's exactly what most Jeep owners really do. It's not a myth. It pisses "real Jeep people" off (define that one for me, eh?) but it's a fact, if it wasn't for people like me, my wife, and others, your precious Jeep brand would be dead and buried, a memory of the past.

Thank you for your service... You've saved us all! ?

 

[Fullspectrum84]

Don't forget how fast battery technology is improving. In 10-15 years we will have vehicles that can go 1000 miles on one charge which by all accounts is much more capable than gas. Manufactures are already using regenerative braking, solar, and better batteries and battery management in concepts and practice. But, you won't be depending on the batteries you think of now, when/if gas models disappear or get priced out of reach.

Sponsored