Jeep dealership won't check mechanical damage until finished with body work

[Higher_Ground]

Insurance agent is apparently on vacation until June 6th. **** me.

I need a vacation myself, but no vehicle makes that a bit hard to manage.

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[Higher_Ground]

I called again today (since they wouldn't return my voicemail from last week). I spoke to the body shop manager this time as he picked up the phone.

He says "looks like it's at the service department. You need a new frame and a new axle housing. I'm typing up the claim adjustment now"

Well I was pretty sure about the axle, and they have assured me that nothing else was leaking, for whatever that's worth. "It's going to be at least a week to put the new frame on, once it gets here."

I am pretty sick to my stomach over all of this. I confronted him over not checking the fame to begin with, and got a lot of "this is the repair process... we can't do work without it being authorized... we can't know what's damaged until we find it..." none of which even begins to actually explain why they waited so long to check the frame. Or why they had to drag it to the service department first (5 weeks after taking it in) before acknowledging that they needed to check it.

I'm amazed that any insurance company was willing to "let it ride" with unknown costs like this. Every situation I've been aware of or involved in, they want a full list of all known damage before they even consider approving the claim. That includes putting it on the lift and doing a full inspection of the frame, mechanicals, and suspension. The fact that they never did that, to me, is a GIANT red flag.

Oh it's bothered me from the first week as well. The agent looked at the truck when I wasn't home and only caught a minimal amount of damage. She did acknowledge that more was damaged, that "it would need to be put on a lift to determine the rest". My first problem with the body shop was refusing to do that additional damage check until after they received the parts from the initial appraisal (title of this thread). Today they claim that is "the repair process" and didn't have much of an answer when I claimed that nobody else I contacted had such an obtuse "process."

It is also important to remember that at this point, it's not you that's getting the work done, it's the insurance company. They sign the checks, they approve the repairs, they make the calls. If you want to get work done elsewhere, or are unhappy with how it's going, they unfortunately need to be involved. I wonder how much they know.

I wish it were that easy. My agent doesn't seem to be particularly concerned with either the timeframe (lack thereof) or the process this shop is using. When I asked about taking it to a different shop they didn't seem to know how that worked. As to how much they know, I'm not sure if that's in reference to the damage, the body shop's actions to date, or the insurance side of things. I hope they're knowledgeable because I could use the help.

Having said that, if the dealership has not been properly engaging and transparent with the insurance company throughout the course of the repairs, you're going to have a bigger problem on your hands when it comes time to settle the bill. Insurance companies don't like being surprised. They really don't like paying for repairs that are not pre-approved.

I'm hoping that the things I see wrong here are just because they were omitted from the posts here. If that's not the case, I would be worried about this being properly covered.

I don't think anything has been done with the claim yet aside from the initial estimate. Supposedly the body shop manager is entering the addendum/whatever they call it when you have additional damage on the claim today. Right now I'm also worried about the competency of the body shop to replace the frame. I am tempted to continue trying to have it fixed elsewhere but I feel that sunken cost fallacy right now and don't want to have to wait more months for essentially the exact same repair situation.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm shocked that the insurance company didn't have a cap - what all of this is saying is that it's open-ended, and they'll pay anything, whatever it takes. So, what if the expenses to repair it exceed the law in your state about totaling it?

In SC, it means your truck is considered a total loss when the cost of repairs plus the salvage value is at least 75% of the vehicle’s actual cash value. Actual cash value refers to how much the car was worth immediately before the damage

If your actual cash value before the wreck was 40,000, 75% of that is $30,000
So if the salvage value was $10,000, that gives them $20,000 to fix it. Once it exceeds that 20K, it's totaled - and if it was me and it ended up that way, I'd say congratulations, you fools just bought a truck, I refuse it.

Those idiots are basically building a house from the roof down.
So they have to strip the box and cab off to replace the frame.
There's a big big risk of scratches when moving body parts off a frame, and putting them back on a new frame.
That's a lot of electrical connections, and a number of body mounts (which are actually fluid on these - if you sign the papers and in a month you see fluid on your garage floor from a mount - you just bought new mounts)
I'd say - if you replace the frame, you will also replace the mounts - they have been stressed.
I'd want every single part of the suspension and steering gone over with a fine-tooth comb.

Interesting that they are lining up panels, making things fit square and clean and even -on a twisted frame, only to have to do it all over again with a new frame. .

If I didn't know better, I'd say this is a joke and you are kidding around with us.

But the part that bugs me is - this could well be a totaled vehicle by SC law when it's done. Worth almost nothing, IMO.
If it was me, and it's not, it's YOUR truck, you decide, but I'd have a call in to the insurance company and tell them you insist all work stops and you want final figures - and tell them I was going to refuse the truck if the repairs reached a certain point. I'd insist they give me a quote on salvage value and I'd get numbers on fair market value of the truck if it was undamaged. I'd do some math.
In your shoes, I'd be ready to refuse the truck - and go after the insurance company for not following protocol.
There is NOTHING about this that is correct, not a thing, nothing. This has to be a joke of some sort. No one does body work prior to frame, and no insurance company says bring it on, we'll pay anything you come up with - including a truck that technically MAY be totaled.

You'd better be ready for some bad outcome here - and I'm surprised you haven't pulled the plug already.

My bottom line would be a certified letter telling the shop and insurance company that I refuse to accept the truck unless they can prove to me it won't meet SC's vehicle damage laws and can give a drop dead price. I'd tell them now to halt all work and you want to work directly with insurance company higher-ups. I'd get the agent out of the loop. Agents too often don't know squat - they sell, they don't adjust, they don't fix, and they don't know the laws.

And I'd tell the insurance company I didn't want that dealer to do anything more until this was all settled. I'd insist it go to a shop that knows how to rebuild vehicles. You have rights and you are letting them walk all over this mess.
Stop listening to your "agent". He's also a fool. You have the RIGHT to take this up the chain.
I've never seen such a crazy, mixed up, just plain dumb process. You are dealing with fools and you know where that leaves you - screwed at the end.

 

[Higher_Ground]

I'm shocked that the insurance company didn't have a cap - what all of this is saying is that it's open-ended, and they'll pay anything, whatever it takes. So, what if the expenses to repair it exceed the law in your state about totaling it?

I feel like the assumption being made by the agent and the body shop (dealer) is that this will not be a totaled vehicle, and I could understand that given the high value of the truck and the low initial repair estimate (<$2000). I brought this up again with the body shop manager, who said "you're not even 50% of the value yet" but didn't want to admit they have no way of knowing that without checking.

In SC, it means your truck is considered a total loss when the cost of repairs plus the salvage value is at least 75% of the vehicle’s actual cash value. Actual cash value refers to how much the car was worth immediately before the damage

If your actual cash value before the wreck was 40,000, 75% of that is $30,000
So if the salvage value was $10,000, that gives them $20,000 to fix it. Once it exceeds that 20K, it's totaled - and if it was me and it ended up that way, I'd say congratulations, you fools just bought a truck, I refuse it.

Those idiots are basically building a house from the roof down.
So they have to strip the box and cab off to replace the frame.
There's a big big risk of scratches when moving body parts off a frame, and putting them back on a new frame.
That's a lot of electrical connections, and a number of body mounts (which are actually fluid on these - if you sign the papers and in a month you see fluid on your garage floor from a mount - you just bought new mounts)
I'd say - if you replace the frame, you will also replace the mounts - they have been stressed.
I'd want every single part of the suspension and steering gone over with a fine-tooth comb.

Thank you, that lines up with what I could find as well. I don't know about salvage value but I assume the insurance agent would be upfront with those numbers.

I am sick to death over them messing up a ground or something else that will cause all sorts of problems later on. The steering components are one thing, and could hopefully be caught and adjusted easy enough. Gremlins are another story.

If I didn't know better, I'd say this is a joke and you are kidding around with us.

But the part that bugs me is - this could well be a totaled vehicle by SC law when it's done. Worth almost nothing, IMO.
If it was me, and it's not, it's YOUR truck, you decide, but I'd have a call in to the insurance company and tell them you insist all work stops and you want final figures - and tell them I was going to refuse the truck if the repairs reached a certain point. I'd insist they give me a quote on salvage value and I'd get numbers on fair market value of the truck if it was undamaged. I'd do some math.
In your shoes, I'd be ready to refuse the truck - and go after the insurance company for not following protocol.
There is NOTHING about this that is correct, not a thing, nothing. This has to be a joke of some sort. No one does body work prior to frame, and no insurance company says bring it on, we'll pay anything you come up with - including a truck that technically MAY be totaled.

You'd better be ready for some bad outcome here - and I'm surprised you haven't pulled the plug already.

I wish I was kidding around. I don't really have that dark of sense of humor these days. I am legit feeling depressed over this situation. Like a lot of guys on here, hopping in my Jeep and going for a ride was a way to feel better after a long day.

I guess I was trying to avoid this being a "naming the business thread" but at this point screw it.

The dealership is Galeana and my insurance is Cincinnati. I don't know if anyone happens to have experience with them but this is my first time ever getting into an accident and I'm just trying to get my truck back (if it's even possible at this point).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thank you, that lines up with what I could find as well. I don't know about salvage value but I assume the insurance agent would be upfront with those numbers.

No, don't get that from an agent. The insurance companies have people who deal specifically with values. Agents sell policies, adjusters look over vehicles and calculate expected repair costs (sometimes on their own, sometimes with a shop)
Don't let the agent do this stuff. Even my agent, who has been at this since about 1980, would defer to their adjusters and the people who handle values.

Seriously, it's almost as if maybe you should talk to my brother, who worked in the insurance industry for years and knows the ins and outs of this stuff.

When our father was killed in an accident, Scot was the one who knew exactly how the company would react, and what to say or not say to them, while I worked on the value of Dad's truck. And that took some doing by itself. It took a good 2 or 3 weeks (maybe it was longer) to get them to finally admit they had the truck all wrong. I handled that part - and in the end, the insurance company came up $7,000 on what they would allow on the truck. They kept saying it was a long wheel base, no tow package and all sorts of other things they had wrong. Argued the points - and they came back "well, we have the VIN and that's what we go by". Funny thing - I had the window sticker and papers from the whole history of that truck. If they were going by the vin - ouch. It was a short wheelbase truck (worth 2-3K more just because of that), I proved it had the tow package (*window sticker with VIN on it, full equipment list and pictures of the truck).
Anyway, it was a fiasco, and that wasn't even involving the local agent - who told us to deal directly with the company!
The agent sells stuff - don't rely on them for numbers. All they know is what they are told to sell policies for, what's in some of the policies and such.
They are not trained in valuations or evaluating wrecks.
IMO, that may be part of the issue here - the agent and relying on the agent.
Every part of the insurance process is specialized, there are people trained in each area. Agents are just the interface to buy products. Even my agent, as great and experienced as he is, would never get involved in this part other than to try to put in words on what great customers we are and how loyal we've been to the company. But he won't get involved in the numbers.

 

[Higher_Ground]

Yes, that was my mistake. I am still a bit new to all of this. I have been communicating with my insurance adjustor all this time.. I have an independent agent who I haven't spoken to in ages. I'm sorry as I think that is causing a lot of confusion.

edit: "Field Claims Superintendent" - that is a new title for me!

 

[Higher_Ground]

Minor update:

I got fed up enough that I contacted Jeep Cares on the forum here. Within 24 hrs the representative emailed me saying the parts were released to the dealer and would be arriving within a week.

Called the dealer yesterday and they said the parts are indeed "showing as here." But that's the good news they say - "we won't know what else is broken until he can put the new frame on and that'll take at least a week"

I am happy that Jeep Cares was efficient. The body shop wanted to argue against that, so it must have been a coincidence.

Now I get to wait and see what other parts are damaged that should've been identified 3 months ago. At least I know I can maybe force the issue on part delays.

Who knows, by the time they get around to fixing it maybe the '23s will already be out.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Minor update:

I got fed up enough that I contacted Jeep Cares on the forum here. Within 24 hrs the representative emailed me saying the parts were released to the dealer and would be arriving within a week.

Called the dealer yesterday and they said the parts are indeed "showing as here." But that's the good news they say - "we won't know what else is broken until he can put the new frame on and that'll take at least a week"

I am happy that Jeep Cares was efficient. The body shop wanted to argue against that, so it must have been a coincidence.

Now I get to wait and see what other parts are damaged that should've been identified 3 months ago. At least I know I can maybe force the issue on part delays.

Who knows, by the time they get around to fixing it maybe the '23s will already be out.

The insurance had better compensate you bigly for the lost value. No way I'd ever buy that truck after all of this even at a steep discount. It's a "walk right by it" for me with that much damage and repair.
The insurance people are absolute fools, IMO.
I should show my brother this thread - I bet he'd have a cow at how insurance - and the goofs at the shop - are handling this.
I've never seen an insurance company say "go ahead and start, just let us know the total when it's done, we'll pay no matter what it costs even if it's the same cost as a new one".
I've worked with insurance people - they want a bottom line before they'll agree to anything.
And I've worked in shops - the words I'd use to describe the people at that shop would get me banned for life.

 

[N8Marsh]

Yikes this intense but thank you for sharing so others may learn.

Knowing what you do now, what are 'best practices' with dealing with something like this?

 

[Higher_Ground]

Shit happens.

I am a pretty lucky guy for the most part. I can live with this as long as I keep it all in perspective. Reading some of the other threads on here about dealer problems and wrecks helps in that regard.

I am 100% getting rid of this insurance company going forward though.

 

[Higher_Ground]

Stupid me, thinking they were going to actually start working on my truck.

Nope, "still need the front axle housing" - no mention of that a week ago, in fact I could've sworn he said that they had it in stock.

Still no simple list of parts that I'm waiting on. I don't know why I even get my hopes up anymore.

Going to change the name of this thread if things go on too much longer. "The last Jeep I'll ever own" has a certain ring to it.

 

[Higher_Ground]

Welcome to week 19 - Still no Jeep.

I call the service department for an update: "Looks like it might need some body work, you need to call the body shop manager".

So I talk to body shop manager: "The service department doesn't know anything. I'm not trying to throw them under the bus, but you need to call me to get an update on what we're doing." Me: "OK, so where is the truck?" Body shop manager: "It's in the service department." Me: "When will it be done?" Body shop manager: "Who knows what else we'll find that needs to be replaced. You won't be getting it back next week even if he finishes."

The clown show continues. What a circus this has become. The most unprofessional people I've ever dealt with and then some. I feel like I should demand a photograph of the gladiator on a lift with a current newspaper in the frame.

 

[Mjolnir]

This is eerily similar, to an extent, to my situation I am currently in. I have Progressive, and will be dropping them immediately following the finishing of my saga, as well as dropping them for my motorcycle and home owners. 12 years down the drain due to incompetency on their end.

7/1 - Parked in front of my house legally. Guy is texting and slams into the back driver side of my JT.

Took it to a shop (not a dealer because they are incompetent). Rear axle snapped in half at the pumpkin with major cracks along the driver side axle, all rear suspension needs to be replaced.

Im stating passenger side suspension needs to be replaced. Insurance is fighting that. Adjuster admitted they didnt get under to look at the passenger side so how could they know.

Insurance is refusing to get an entire rear, only approved the housing so the shop needs to swap over gears, axles, etc. However we wont know if the axles themselves are good or bent/snapped until the new housing comes in which adds a possible extension on when real work can start.

Frame might be bent, but we don't know until the new axle housing and suspension is in so we can get it on the rack.

Insurance has been horrible and fighting me this entire time. If the frame is bent, I am refusing the truck completely. The cost of a new frame and installing is unreal on these things. Not to mention the time it will take.

Luckily my shop is fighting with me against insurance.

OP, I HIGHLY recommend if you need a new frame, which it is sounding like from the shop and your insurance, to refuse the vehicle straight up and make them total it. You don't even need numbers for that.

 

[Orange01z28]

Welcome to week 19 - Still no Jeep.

I call the service department for an update: "Looks like it might need some body work, you need to call the body shop manager".

So I talk to body shop manager: "The service department doesn't know anything. I'm not trying to throw them under the bus, but you need to call me to get an update on what we're doing." Me: "OK, so where is the truck?" Body shop manager: "It's in the service department." Me: "When will it be done?" Body shop manager: "Who knows what else we'll find that needs to be replaced. You won't be getting it back next week even if he finishes."

The clown show continues. What a circus this has become. The most unprofessional people I've ever dealt with and then some. I feel like I should demand a photograph of the gladiator on a lift with a current newspaper in the frame.

When I wrecked my Subaru it had over 100k miles and the airbags popped and the insurance company didn't total it. I demanded a report as to why, and the insurance company sent me a whole booklet with all of the damage the shop had recorded, the labor and parts to fix it, as well as research comparing retail prices with similar miles

I would request this because then you could get a straight answer from the dealership as to what they've actually looked at as well as all the damage on paper

I probably should have argued more with the insurance to total the Subaru since I believe basing pricing on retail is kinda BS but it did show me there was less damage to the Subie than i realized

Just a thought

 

[Cripton805]

I just sold a 22' Mazda CX5 due to a similar situation. It was cosmetically damaged in a sandstorm and lightly clipped in a parking lot in Vegas. (same day)

My best friend was a claims adjuster and told me what shop was the best in the area. They flat out told me, I would be looking at months due to a national back order. They were honest and truthful even though it took 4 months.

I ordered another part straight from the dealership because I was paying out of pocket for the hit and run. I stopped by every few weeks and it was lie after lie. They initially told me it was on back order and then they told me it was on its way. Come back around a certain time frame. It just shipped. It didn't ship. It was on backorder. It shipped again. It would take a week. The following week was another two weeks.

I'd rather just have some kind of honest answer instead of wasting my time.

They finally called me the day after I traded the car in. 5 months later and charged me a 25% restocking fee for returning the part.

The Mazda was probably the highest quality, affordable car I ever owned. But that specific parts department was terrible.

I haven't had luck with Jeep dealerships either and my friend (claims adjuster) also hated the local Jeep dealership. He would say their diag was terrible. Both bad experiences I had with Jeep dealerships were due to the paint corrosion. One admitted it was a warranty claim, but would not return calls to set up appointment. The second one was going to work on it and then declined to work on it once it was in their possession. I had a flag mount and they said they could deny the warranty based off the offroad use. ?

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