Jeep dealership won't check mechanical damage until finished with body work

[Higher_Ground]

OP, I HIGHLY recommend if you need a new frame, which it is sounding like from the shop and your insurance, to refuse the vehicle straight up and make them total it. You don't even need numbers for that.

It's situations like these were it would actually be nice to have legal advice or someone from like a consumer advocacy group that could just tell you what to do.

I don't think there's an option to refuse the vehicle. It's been several months but when I called my state's insurance hotline they were pretty clear that the insurance company's obligation is to repair or replace and it's their choice on which one to do.

When I wrecked my Subaru it had over 100k miles and the airbags popped and the insurance company didn't total it. I demanded a report as to why, and the insurance company sent me a whole booklet with all of the damage the shop had recorded, the labor and parts to fix it, as well as research comparing retail prices with similar miles

I would request this because then you could get a straight answer from the dealership as to what they've actually looked at as well as all the damage on paper

At this point I don't think the insurance company knows any more than I do with regard to what the body shop is doing. I keep reading that the shop can submit addendums as long as it takes and they are definitely in no hurry to get my gladiator back to me.

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[Higher_Ground]

I ordered another part straight from the dealership because I was paying out of pocket for the hit and run. I stopped by every few weeks and it was lie after lie. They initially told me it was on back order and then they told me it was on its way. Come back around a certain time frame. It just shipped. It didn't ship. It was on backorder. It shipped again. It would take a week. The following week was another two weeks.

I'd rather just have some kind of honest answer instead of wasting my time.

They finally called me the day after I traded the car in. 5 months later and charged me a 25% restocking fee for returning the part.

This was my #1 gripe the entire time. Just be honest with me. They have used every excuse you can think of and never admit what they said before wasn't accurate or truthful. The new one has been to aggressively deny that involving Jeep Cares had anything to do with my parts finally shipping. When I inquired about changing body shops they did the same thing - threaten to charge an enormous restocking fee, whenever the parts ever arrived (if they ever arrived, clearly they had not been shipped at that point). They are a dealership and they are supposed to stock parts. Restocking isn't a thing - it's just stocking.

The Mazda was probably the highest quality, affordable car I ever owned. But that specific parts department was terrible.

I haven't had luck with Jeep dealerships either and my friend (claims adjuster) also hated the local Jeep dealership. He would say their diag was terrible. Both bad experiences I had with Jeep dealerships were due to the paint corrosion. One admitted it was a warranty claim, but would not return calls to set up appointment. The second one was going to work on it and then declined to work on it once it was in their possession. I had a flag mount and they said they could deny the warranty based off the offroad use. ?

This is also my situation. This is far and away the worst dealership I've ever been to. I read the reviews of the cross town competitor and they are just as bad. I am very conflicted about whether to give up on owning a Jeep in the future. The coolest vehicle I've ever had and for two years I enjoyed it like no vehicle I've ever owned. But the last 4+ months have been intolerable. I do not want to do business with a company like this (the dealership network, not Jeep itself).

 

[it_trailblzr]

Reading this makes me very sad for you, I am sorry you are experiencing this.
That being said, if it were me in your situation, it would be a lawyer-up day, like nobody else in the world.

This makes my hole pucker.

 

[Mjolnir]

I don't think there's an option to refuse the vehicle. It's been several months but when I called my state's insurance hotline they were pretty clear that the insurance company's obligation is to repair or replace and it's their choice on which one to do.

You absolutely can refuse the vehicle prior to the frame switch happening, mainly if you have the threshold of what a totaled vehicle is in your state. Once it comes out that it DOES need a frame, tell both the dealership and your insurance to halt all work, and give you a cost analysis of the job INCLUDING the new frame/installing the new frame. Look at the cost of fixing the vehicle vs what your state says is the threshold, and if it is over or right on the money, tell them you no longer authorize any work to be done on the vehicle. If needed, get a lawyer or speak with your local DA.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You absolutely can refuse the vehicle prior to the frame switch happening, mainly if you have the threshold of what a totaled vehicle is in your state. Once it comes out that it DOES need a frame, tell both the dealership and your insurance to halt all work, and give you a cost analysis of the job INCLUDING the new frame/installing the new frame. Look at the cost of fixing the vehicle vs what your state says is the threshold, and if it is over or right on the money, tell them you no longer authorize any work to be done on the vehicle. If needed, get a lawyer or speak with your local DA.

If it doesn't cross 75%, he can't refuse it unless he's got a really super nice insurance company that agrees. Time to READ the policy. If it hits 75% then he's got no choice, it's TOTALED, by SC law, period.
The insurance company MAY decide to total it, but doesn't have to, and they have to file paperwork if they wish to declare it totaled under the 75% threshold.

Here's the law of SC if that's indeed where he lives:
..................................................................................................................................
Insurance Companies Declaring Total Loss Claim

At the time an insurance company settles a claim on a wrecked vehicle, the company must determine the loss as a percentage of the fair market value of the vehicle before the loss.

When an insurance company is involved, the fair market value of the vehicle must be determined as of the date immediately before the event which gave rise to the claim.

Any vehicle that has a loss of 75% or more of the fair market value must be declared a total loss.

Insurance companies can choose to declare a vehicle a total loss if it has sustained less than 75% of the fair market value or if the fair market value of the vehicle was less than $2000, by submitting a Request for Total Loss Title (SCDMV Form TR-3), in addition to the other required documents.
......................................................................................................................................

It MUST BE declared a total loss of the salvage value and the cost of repairs reach 75% of FMV
They can CHOOSE if it's less than 75% - THEIR choice, not the owner's choice.
But at 75% - by law, they must declare it a total value.

If the cost of repairs suddenly hits that threshold and they MUST declare it a total loss - someone at that insurance company is going to have to pay for parts and labor.
This is what's got me really calling this a bogus situation involving idiots on two sides (insurance company AND repair shop)


Just for kicks - and obviously no one is seeing the simplicity of any of this, but just for kicks -
What if FMV was $50,000 the day before the event.
And what if salvage value is $10,000 just for kicks, pretend.
Now, what is going to happen if that cost of repairs all of a sudden hits $27,500 and by law it MUST be declared totaled?
So an insurance company is going to say yeah, go ahead, just send us the bill when it's done, no need to check in, we don't care what it costs. No way, ain't gonna happen.
They are so totally screwed if it hits that 75% mark - they are buying all of the repairs AND having to declare it TOTALED. Ouch.

So, how much was a Sport S worth on the day before it was wrecked?

Of course if his profile state is incorrect and he doesn't reside in SC, then it's up to the state where his vehicle is registered and/or where he lives.

And since I know some choose not to believe me, here's the horse's mouth -
https://www.scdmvonline.com/Vehicle...can choose to,to the other required documents.

 

[Higher_Ground]

You absolutely can refuse the vehicle prior to the frame switch happening, mainly if you have the threshold of what a totaled vehicle is in your state. Once it comes out that it DOES need a frame, tell both the dealership and your insurance to halt all work, and give you a cost analysis of the job INCLUDING the new frame/installing the new frame. Look at the cost of fixing the vehicle vs what your state says is the threshold, and if it is over or right on the money, tell them you no longer authorize any work to be done on the vehicle. If needed, get a lawyer or speak with your local DA.

Thank you for the advice. I have been trying to get ahead of the costs piling up. Unfortunately the cost to repair (including the bumper, frame and front axle assembly) is only $14,209.18. This only puts me at roughly 37% ACV and it would be hard to imagine another $12k worth of repairs being found this late in the game, but I'm not holding my breath. It certainly seems like nobody is remotely concerned about the vehicle eventually being a total loss. Optimism?

I hope you have better luck. I wish I could trust that the vehicle will be repaired correctly and professionally but given all I've experienced so far that would really be a welcome surprise. I read where another gladiator owner had their vehicle totaled after frame damage so I guess it's definitely a possibility. Maybe shops in my area don't charge as much as his did.

 

[Higher_Ground]

...
This is what's got me really calling this a bogus situation involving idiots on two sides (insurance company AND repair shop)


Just for kicks - and obviously no one is seeing the simplicity of any of this, but just for kicks -
What if FMV was $50,000 the day before the event.
And what if salvage value is $10,000 just for kicks, pretend.
Now, what is going to happen if that cost of repairs all of a sudden hits $27,500 and by law it MUST be declared totaled?
So an insurance company is going to say yeah, go ahead, just send us the bill when it's done, no need to check in, we don't care what it costs. No way, ain't gonna happen.
They are so totally screwed if it hits that 75% mark - they are buying all of the repairs AND having to declare it TOTALED. Ouch.

So, how much was a Sport S worth on the day before it was wrecked?

Of course if his profile state is incorrect and he doesn't reside in SC, then it's up to the state where his vehicle is registered and/or where he lives.

And since I know some choose not to believe me, here's the horse's mouth -
https://www.scdmvonline.com/Vehicle-Owners/Titles/Total-Loss-Claim#:~:text=Insurance companies can choose to,to the other required documents.

Well I do appreciate all the advice and concern you've shown throughout this ordeal.

That being said, I would like to reiterate that I am being 100% honest with all of you and have no reason to waste my time or yours with made-up stories or half truths.

As to whether the insurance agency and dealership are telling ME the truth - I can only assume good faith for so long. They were also cagey about giving me specific dollar amounts for what point it would be totaled. I asked for a dollar amount and got a reply with a % so I could calculate it myself but it irked me that she didn't just give me a direct answer like I requested.

 

[Cripton805]

My friend actually quit as a claims adjuster recently. The part shortages were a nightmare. Making the situation worse, used car values doubled at times. This meant that a lot of cars were not able to get totalled that should get totalled. Increasing his work load and demand for parts. Every day he was constantly fighting back and forth. Extending rentals and peoples policy coverages. Pist off customers without their cars for months at a time. At no fault of his own.

The whole car industry is a nightmare right now.

 

[Higher_Ground]

173 days and counting (5 months 20 days).

I talked to them today and "we're still waiting on 'bushings' - but hopefully they'll get here tomorrow because it's saying they're in transit". I spoke with them 14 days ago and we were still waiting on the same parts then so no update at all in two weeks after holding my vehicle for 5+ months.

This is really feeling more and more like a scam to bilk the insurance agency for as much as they can while I'm left with what would've added up to over 10k in rental fees if I didn't have a car to borrow from family.

More and more I want to move on to something else just because I absolutely cannot stand the dealership anymore and don't know anywhere else to service it locally.

 

[Higher_Ground]

Previously on "Never Going to See My Jeep Again": (edited for brevity and poor memory)

Our protagonist found himself frustrated but ultimately hopeful that his ordeal would soon be coming to a close. After all, how long could it take to ship "bushings" and the folks at the dealer body shop were oh so happy for him to be one step closer to driving his beloved Gladiator once more.

(3 weeks later)

Me: "Hi, this is [Higher_Ground] could you please give me an update on my Gladiator?
Galeana: "Oh I sold it"
Me: (displeased, but willing to break the ice) Oh yeah, how much did you get?
Galeana: About $12. I needed to get some lunch.

Me: Haha, do you have any good news for me?
Galeana: Actually, it's still at the service department. When you were hit a lot was pushed upward. It looks like you need a new transmission oil cooler (line?) and a new radiator fan. I think it's only a couple of days on the fan. Oh and the hood insulator.
Me: OK I see. Is there any way you could copy me when you're submitting the insurance supplements so that I can have a record of what's going on?
Galeana: Well we're actually letting the Service Department do 100% of the repairs first before submitting the supplement. The insurance agencies hate having to do multiple supplements."
Me: Ok thanks. I just want to have something to reference in the future.



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On a serious note, WHAT THE *#%*&((@. I know that the entire industry is having problems but this is such a farce it makes me feel bad knowing there are likely vehicles at this very shop being held hostage for longer (and hundreds of shops just like them all over the country).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Previously on "Never Going to See My Jeep Again": (edited for brevity and poor memory)

Our protagonist found himself frustrated but ultimately hopeful that his ordeal would soon be coming to a close. After all, how long could it take to ship "bushings" and the folks at the dealer body shop were oh so happy for him to be one step closer to driving his beloved Gladiator once more.

(3 weeks later)

Me: "Hi, this is [Higher_Ground] could you please give me an update on my Gladiator?
Galeana: "Oh I sold it"
Me: (displeased, but willing to break the ice) Oh yeah, how much did you get?
Galeana: About $12. I needed to get some lunch.

Me: Haha, do you have any good news for me?
Galeana: Actually, it's still at the service department. When you were hit a lot was pushed upward. It looks like you need a new transmission oil cooler (line?) and a new radiator fan. I think it's only a couple of days on the fan. Oh and the hood insulator.
Me: OK I see. Is there any way you could copy me when you're submitting the insurance supplements so that I can have a record of what's going on?
Galeana: Well we're actually letting the Service Department do 100% of the repairs first before submitting the supplement. The insurance agencies hate having to do multiple supplements."
Me: Ok thanks. I just want to have something to reference in the future.



-------------------------------------------------------

On a serious note, WHAT THE *#%*&((@. I know that the entire industry is having problems but this is such a farce it makes me feel bad knowing there are likely vehicles at this very shop being held hostage for longer (and hundreds of shops just like them all over the country).

I hope I'm wrong - but I have a baaad feeling, and since things are adding up - I'd say you have a right to know the costs and demand it be totaled.
That shop is run by total idiots, morons, pieces of crap. I can't believe they are in business.
So what if they get it done and the total comes up to $45,000 - then what? You are screwed, the insurance company is screwed.
Without looking I can't recall what your state says defines when a vehicle must be totaled, but I'd almost bet you are already there.
How the hell can they miss those parts being broken?
I've never seen such a cluster-f on a vehicle before.
They absolutely would have seen those things - they are right in front of their bloody noses, obvious - all they are doing is taking things one step at a time, milking it. I have a feeling it could be something more nefarious than just being stupid.
You can't miss those thing! What kind of idiots do they hire that can't see a busted fan, messedu up line and hood insulation.
And have you contacted your insurance COMPANY - I mean DIRECTLY? You could be totally screwed, what the agent says be damned. He sells, that's all he does. He isn't in some office making the decisions on money.
I'd say you need to get a letter off to the head honchos and stop trusting an agent, of all people, in this.

 

[mert34]

Man, something does not seem right with not submitting or saying something about more parts being needed. Most of that would of been picked up months ago on inspections. That dealership does not care or is completly incompetent from the sounds of it and taking you and your insurance for a ride.

 

[Darkspeed]

If you ruptured a shock they can leak oil

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If you ruptured a shock they can leak oil

Yeah, but that fits, how?
Everything they have mentioned to date should have been seen/revealed in the original inspection. Nothing was hidden.
Fan - you can see it by opening the hood.
Hood insulation - DUH!
Transmission cooler and/or line - same - open hood to let light in, lift vehicle, look at all lines and hoses. No secrets there. The cooler is visible.
My guess - this outfit has never done more than a tune-up or a fender replacement.
It's just beyond comprehension how this poor guy is being taken for a ride by either criminal or stupid dealership staff, and, if the insurance agent isn't a close personal friend or family member, I also question why this isn't ripped from their hands and taken direct to the company.
Has the insurance company in writing informed the insured (the OP) that it's ok, they'll take whatever comes and cover it all? If not, I won't say more there as it would be insulting to certain people.
Further - I would never accept a vehicle back that in all likelihood would now be a vehicle the state considers to be a mandatory total loss. Once it reaches a certain point, it's not a choice - it's totaled. Tell me all of this time, all of these hours, all of these parts have not reached that limit.
If not, I'd be telling both the insurance and the dealer - they need to pay me for the loss and move forward.
I'm also baffled as to why there hasn't been actual communication with the people paying the bills - unless I missed something - it's an agent doing the talking.
I'd call the company's 800 number and speak directly with them. The agent isn't doing anyone any favors.

I gotta ask the OP - why are you putting up with this BS?
Have you not called the insurance COMPANY - skip the agent - call the company, and see if they are REALLY approving this. Could be - they are not. And then guess who owes the bill - YOU do.

 

[mert34]

My guess - this outfit has never done more than a tune-up or a fender replacement.

This right here seems to be my experience with dealerships lately. My computer recall was rescheduled two times because they did not have a certified tech to perform the work they said. Another vehicle of mine got reschedueld 3 times because they had no one that could repair/replace a airbag that was triggering a fault.

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