UAW and Stellantis Reach Tentative Agreement

[Teqsand]

And that's why there have been over 300 strikes this year. Workers are seeing "record profits" everywhere but their paychecks and they're pissed.

How many of them kicked back for companies that lost money?

Sponsored

 

[Deleted member 57233]

How many of them kicked back for companies that lost money?

The ones that got let go when those companies had to make up the lost revenue.

How many executives took paycuts when the companies lost money due to their poor leadership?

 

[Teqsand]

a

The ones that got let go when those companies had to make up the lost revenue.

How many executives took paycuts when the companies lost money due to their poor leadership?

Execs get fired, and unlike bumper installers, if you screw up at CEO level you don't get hired to ceo another company, bumper installers just move to another assy line ....

 

[sharpsicle]

 

[Deleted member 57233]

if you screw up at CEO level you don't get hired to ceo another company

lol what world do you live in? This literally happens all the time. And they get a $30 million golden parachute for their trouble.

It's so weird to see people against their fellow workers. You will always be closer to the homeless guy under the bridge than the CEOs of these companies.

 

[Teqsand]

Did any of the big 3 take money away from the workers to financially damage them in order to coerce them to act?

Did the union stop workers from working, (even at non contract negotiating suppliers) in order to financially harm and coerce the automakers into giving money?

Sounds like one was extorting not negotiating

 

[sharpsicle]

Did any of the big 3 take money away from the workers to financially damage them in order to coerce them to act?

Did the union stop workers from working, (even at non contract negotiating suppliers) in order to financially harm and coerce the automakers into giving money?

Sounds like one was extorting not negotiating

Ah yes, so people should be forced to work even when they don’t like their compensation. You have no rights to choose not to work when you feel the compensation isn’t equitable. By this logic, anyone who says they’ll quit if they don’t get a raise or promotion is engaging in extortion. That’s insane.

Exercising your rights isn’t extortion. I don’t care whether or not you support UAW.

 

[Teqsand]

Ah yes, so people should be forced to work even when they don’t like their compensation. You have no rights to choose not to work when you feel the compensation isn’t equitable. By this logic, anyone who says they’ll quit if they don’t get a raise or promotion is engaging in extortion. That’s insane.

Exercising your rights isn’t extortion. I don’t care whether or not you support UAW.

LOL... seriously.... almost not worth the debate now if that's your thought process, but wth... no one is being FORCED to work for GM, FORD, or Stellantis, they are CHOOSING to work there. If they don't like the compensation that they are being given for the time and skill they are selling then they are free to move and sell thier time and skill to someone else...
"equitable" as you put it would be a player if each worker were negotiating individually based on thier value to the company, that is not what is happening and let's face it, not all workers are equally valuable (hence why most need a union)...
Quiting in you don't like the value you get for your time and skill isn't extortion, (for sure not are that level), because you're easily replaceable without the company skipping a beat...

So let me ask you, let's say electrical or plumbing unions provide actual training to make thier members more valuable to a company and worth thier scale, WHAT VALUE does the UAW bring to the table for the employer? does the UAW train you to put on a bumper bolt? Plug in a headlight harness? seriously, other than redirecting union dues politically, what does the UAW actually do that helps make thier members valuable to GM, FORD, STELLANTIS

 

[sharpsicle]

LOL... seriously.... almost not worth the debate now if that's your thought process, but wth... no one is being FORCED to work for GM, FORD, or Stellantis, they are CHOOSING to work there. If they don't like the compensation that they are being given for the time and skill they are selling then they are free to move and sell thier time and skill to someone else...
"equitable" as you put it would be a player if each worker were negotiating individually based on thier value to the company, that is not what is happening and let's face it, not all workers are equally valuable (hence why most need a union)...
Quiting in you don't like the value you get for your time and skill isn't extortion, (for sure not are that level), because you're easily replaceable without the company skipping a beat...

So let me ask you, let's say electrical or plumbing unions provide actual training to make thier members more valuable to a company and worth thier scale, WHAT VALUE does the UAW bring to the table for the employer? does the UAW train you to put on a bumper bolt? Plug in a headlight harness? seriously, other than redirecting union dues politically, what does the UAW actually do that helps make thier members valuable to GM, FORD, STELLANTIS

If this were true, the Big 3 would not negotiate with UAW and just hire others. But they didn't. Both sides chose to negotiate. Neither side was forced to do so. And there's nothing wrong with that. Please stop making it sound like UAW held a gun to the manufacturer's head. In reality, UAW put the gun to their own worker's heads and claimed it was the big 3 doing it. But nobody 'extorted' anyone. They just applied leverage to a negotiation, and UAW treated their members like shit in that process.

But alas, this is how negotiations work. Each side takes a position, each side shows their commitment to their position, and then each side compromises until a deal is reached. And until that compromise is reached, everyone loses.

There is no extortion here. There is significant negotiation positioning at the expense of the workers. If you can't see that, I don't know what to do for you other than suggest you take a look at legal texts pertaining to extortion to understand it better.

 

[Teqsand]

If this were true, the Big 3 would not negotiate with UAW and just hire others. Both sides chose to negotiate. Neither side was forced to do so. Please stop making it sound like UAW held a gun to the manufacturer's head. In reality, UAW put the gun to their own worker's heads.

When you tell the workers to stop working, and you drag in other parts of the union that were not in negotiations in order to fiscally harm the business, yes that's putting a gun to thier head...

The UAW has long since reduced the value of the worker, negotiated away any real craftsmen level jobs or difficult labor jobs... the union still operates as if those craftsman still exist....

Unions had a time and place, some private sector may still have value such as the plunbing/electrical I mentioned that actually train members bit the UAW doesnt

 

[sharpsicle]

When you tell the workers to stop working, and you drag in other parts of the union that were not in negotiations in order to fiscally harm the business, yes that's putting a gun to thier head...

The UAW has long since reduced the value of the worker, negotiated away any real craftsmen level jobs or difficult labor jobs... the union still operates as if those craftsman still exist....

Unions had a time and place, some private sector may still have value such as the plunbing/electrical I mentioned that actually train members bit the UAW doesnt

You're talking about how the union operates now. That really has nothing to do with the negotiation. Again, I get your point and I've said UAW treated their workers like shit. But there's no extortion here between UAW and Stellantis. There's just a shitty-run union.

And to that point, workers formed the union, workers can leave the union. Choices are free to be made everywhere. Just like the Big 3 can choose to work with the union or not. You need to decide who you're angry with, and then find the right reason to be angry (hint: it's not 'extortion').

 

[Teqsand]

You're talking about how the union operates now. That really has nothing to do with the negotiation. Again, I get your point and I've said UAW treated their workers like shit. But there's no extortion here between UAW and Stellantis. There's just a shitty-run union.

And to that point, workers formed the union, workers can leave the union. Choices are free to be made everywhere. Just like the Big 3 can choose to work with the union or not. You need to decide who you're angry with, and then find the right reason to be angry (hint: it's not 'extortion').

you do realize it's not that simple....
per the NLRB, to start a union you need a majority of the employees "WHO VOTE IN THE ELECTION" (3 out of 1000 vote and 2 say yes) to certify one, but to desertify one you need a "MAJORITY OF ALL EMPLOYEES" to vote to desertification (501 out of the 1000). That's takes an extreme stretch of the imagination to call that equitable....

GM getting rid of the UAW would be difficult at best..... I wish they would say Hey your contract is over, thanks for playing, we're hiring tomorrow for non union workers..... the union drags the actual worker down, there was a time that benefits were reserved for employees the business wanted to ensure they stated, that made employees better workers. Now everyone has to get everything equally and only a complete fool thinks that bring the worst worker up to the nest worker level rather than bringing down the best worker to the worst worker level, there is no incentive to be exceptional if you're getting what the slugs get

 

[sharpsicle]

you do realize it's not that simple....
per the NLRB, to start a union you need a majority of the employees "WHO VOTE IN THE ELECTION" (3 out of 1000 vote and 2 say yes) to certify one, but to desertification one you need a "MAJORITY OF ALL EMPLOYEES" to vote to desertification (501 our of the 1000). That's takes an extreme stretch of the imagination to call that equitable....

GM getting rid of the UAW would be difficult at best..... I wish they would say Hey your contract is over, thanks for playing, we're hiring tomorrow for non union workers..... the union drags the actual worker down, there was a time that benefits were reserved for employees the business wanted to ensure they stated, that made employees better workers. Now everyone has to get everything equally and only a complete fool thinks that bring the worst worker up to the nest worker level rather than bringing down the best worker to the worst worker level, there is no incentive to be exceptional if you're getting what the slugs get

Never said it was simple. Just said it wasn't extortion. But I'm glad we're at least on the same page now.

 

[Teqsand]

Never said it was simple. Just said it wasn't extortion. But I'm glad we're at least on the same page now.

I disagree, when your intent is to shut down the company and cause financial loss that is extortion.... stellantis never locked the gate and said you can't come work and earn a check...

 

[sharpsicle]

I disagree, when your intent is to shut down the company and cause financial loss that is extortion.... stellantis never locked the gate and said you can't come work and earn a check...

Sorry you see it that way. Perhaps you can convince someone to sue them. Extortion is a serious claim to make. But before you consider something like that, I'd suggest this again:

There is no extortion here. There is significant negotiation positioning at the expense of the workers. If you can't see that, I don't know what to do for you other than suggest you take a look at legal texts pertaining to extortion to understand it better.

The fact that nobody, not even the Big 3 with all their legal teams, considers this extortion should tell you something. You don't think they'd go after UAW if this was actually extortion?

I'd like to get off this topic and back on the successful tentative resolution that they negotiated.

Sponsored