Sunrider owners - MY mess-up, or theirs?

[Charles 236]

Also @ShadowsPapa Am wondering if Bestop can custom fit one for you.

Good question, but it would probably require a trip to wherever Bestop is located. No problem of this sort is insoluble, but sometimes it takes hands on effort by the designers and engineers. Whether Bestop or Jeep, it NEEDS to be fixed properly, Bill paid for it and there is no excuse for it not to work properly.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Also @ShadowsPapa Am wondering if Bestop can custom fit one for you.

That's what was tried........ will have to try another "test fit" tomorrow or Monday.
But it was an effort to match something to my Jeep, and unless I was doing something wrong, it didn't work out.
I found another Jeep owner who shimmed his up to resolve some issues, so............ there's something about the tolerances on these Jeeps where some are good, and on others, they don't fit right.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Good question, but it would probably require a trip to wherever Bestop is located. No problem of this sort is insoluble, but sometimes it takes hands on effort by the designers and engineers. Whether Bestop or Jeep, it NEEDS to be fixed properly, Bill paid for it and there is no excuse for it not to work properly.

Their engineering appears to be in MI.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I took the time to try the test unit again.
I followed their instructions TO THE LETTER -
They said - set it in place, put in the number of shims needed to make the seals sit right,
then latch the two front latches
then install the bolts.

I did that - holy cow - the front edge sat so high I had to stand on my side steps and really lean and push hard on the front edge to get the clamp "fingers" in place, then it took some real clamping effort.
Doing that shoved the seals back down, but, installing and tightening the side bolts twisted the rails back up so the seals sat better.
OK, it's on - let's see about operation -
Got in, tried to unclamp it - could not. The clamps released hard and I could not release the "fingers". I had to get out and stand on my power steps, push down on the front edge and release the clamps.

So far, I've tried it two different ways -
Shim, then clamp the front two clamps, then the side bolts
and
Shim, install the side bolts, then clamp.

Neither worked, and the front was incredibly hard to clamp and unclamp in any case.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

More communications from Bestop...........
Proof, the issue is with my JT, no matter what the dealership says.
My understanding of how things worked is this -
The very first time I went in to the dealership with the issue, they apparently took pictures, measurements and so on, and simply ordered another top. OK, that makes perfect sense! At that point assume the top that came WITH the truck was problematic and another one would fix it.
Since it was a warranty thing - next appointment, I took the truck in, and they swapped tops. It didn't fix it, but the original top I got WITH the truck from the factory was sent back under warranty. (maybe for review or whatever, by Jeep and/or Bestop)

The second top is what I have now, and isn't really any better.
The first top that came with the truck was sent back to Jeep.
Bestop got their hands on it from Jeep.
It's the one I mentioned a few posts back that they put on their jig in engineering and it fit that jig fine (and they sent me pictures as proof)
I had to agree with Bestop - it fit fine!
But then I was wondering - what if.................and I think maybe someone here may have wondered - is that rigging they use accurate?
Today, Bestop told me that they put my first top on a Wrangler they had - and it fits fine, perfectly.

(the one I have now would have to be modified back to stock with the original front mounting points since we swapped those out a while back, didn't get the opportunity to swap it back to stock and try it on my wife's JLU - no need, now)

So, my assumption is that no matter what Jeep says, some of us, me included, as well as several other forum members, and Wrangler forum members and people out there in the general population are seeing Jeeps that have slight differences in their build tolerances and it's causing problems for the sunrider in some cases.
According to Bestop - the top should fit with the side rails reasonably parallel to the tops of the doors, and the seals not shoved down, and the side rails not pinching the other seal, cutting into it.

*If you have to tuck the mucket seals, the rails don't sit pretty parallel to the doors, or have any sort of fitment issues, or your seals don't fit exactly like they do with the freedom panels, you have this problem, no matter how hard you want to deny it.*
(and someone here has done just that then said "it fits just fine". No, it doesn't, and the clamping force among other things are probably off.)

Looks like it is "a Jeep thing". (But Jeep is denying it)

 

[imaginaryreply]

What if ths test mule/rig they have and are pattern making from is incorrect?

That is what I am wondering, is there anyone who has this fitting perfectly on both sides with no whistling / wind noise?

 

[Trollboogie]

That is what I am wondering, is there anyone who has this fitting perfectly on both sides with no whistling / wind noise?

Not me... passenger side fits great. The mucket stands up. Drivers side it gets folded down. It doesn't try to cut the door seals like Shadows papa. And a whistling wind noise. Oh, and barely clamps down. No effort.

 

[Trollboogie]

More communications from Bestop...........
Proof, the issue is with my JT, no matter what the dealership says.
My understanding of how things worked is this -
The very first time I went in to the dealership with the issue, they apparently took pictures, measurements and so on, and simply ordered another top. OK, that makes perfect sense! At that point assume the top that came WITH the truck was problematic and another one would fix it.
Since it was a warranty thing - next appointment, I took the truck in, and they swapped tops. It didn't fix it, but the original top I got WITH the truck from the factory was sent back under warranty. (maybe for review or whatever, by Jeep and/or Bestop)

The second top is what I have now, and isn't really any better.
The first top that came with the truck was sent back to Jeep.
Bestop got their hands on it from Jeep.
It's the one I mentioned a few posts back that they put on their jig in engineering and it fit that jig fine (and they sent me pictures as proof)
I had to agree with Bestop - it fit fine!
But then I was wondering - what if.................and I think maybe someone here may have wondered - is that rigging they use accurate?
Today, Bestop told me that they put my first top on a Wrangler they had - and it fits fine, perfectly.

(the one I have now would have to be modified back to stock with the original front mounting points since we swapped those out a while back, didn't get the opportunity to swap it back to stock and try it on my wife's JLU - no need, now)

So, my assumption is that no matter what Jeep says, some of us, me included, as well as several other forum members, and Wrangler forum members and people out there in the general population are seeing Jeeps that have slight differences in their build tolerances and it's causing problems for the sunrider in some cases.
According to Bestop - the top should fit with the side rails reasonably parallel to the tops of the doors, and the seals not shoved down, and the side rails not pinching the other seal, cutting into it.

*If you have to tuck the mucket seals, the rails don't sit pretty parallel to the doors, or have any sort of fitment issues, or your seals don't fit exactly like they do with the freedom panels, you have this problem, no matter how hard you want to deny it.*
(and someone here has done just that then said "it fits just fine". No, it doesn't, and the clamping force among other things are probably off.)

Looks like it is "a Jeep thing". (But Jeep is denying it)

Question is... can Bestop get you a top that you can make work.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Question is... can Bestop get you a top that you can make work.

They are trying - the last one with some mods was supposed to be just that, but it ended up going the other direction.
I wonder if they did the opposite of what was needed, but then I don't design the things.

 

[rhaney02]

That is what I am wondering, is there anyone who has this fitting perfectly on both sides with no whistling / wind noise?

Yes, mine fits perfectly with the mucket seals, being level and even, and there is no whistling/ wind noise.

With as many of these that Bestop have sold, the Sunriders that do not fit well are a small sample size.

 

[Trollboogie]

They are trying - the last one with some mods was supposed to be just that, but it ended up going the other direction.
I wonder if they did the opposite of what was needed, but then I don't design the things.

I know it would be a lot of work on their part. They need to make the top sit on the window frame like the freedom panels do instead of the side rails. If you have a soft top, it mounts the same way. You have to mount pieces to the side rails to make a door frame for the door to have a seal. I have dual tops for my Wife's JL. That is why I would wonder if your jeep came with a soft top if it would even fit right. Since the side rails of a soft top, mount the same way as the sunrider and latch the same.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That is what I am wondering, is there anyone who has this fitting perfectly on both sides with no whistling / wind noise?

Yes, I've posted pictures, one of them from Bestop, as well as a couple of others.

Did not take any time at all for me to find several who have the fit problems - not as bad as mine, but some right up close to that bad.

Of course those who have a perfect fit will not come in and create a thread that says "my sunrider fits perfectly!" while anyone with a problem will talk about it.
It's like any other issue - impossible to get a decent percentage, but - apparently it's a big enough issue that Bestop is saying if they figure this out, it will help a lot of others as well. So I'm not alone and it's not a "tiny" issue. I've had a lot of conversations with them, it's apparently a thing, and they want to solve it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not me... passenger side fits great. The mucket stands up. Drivers side it gets folded down. It doesn't try to cut the door seals like Shadows papa. And a whistling wind noise. Oh, and barely clamps down. No effort.

There should be some effort to clamp, a max of 30 pounds of force. If it's "no effort", that can explain the whistling. It's not sealing well up front.

 

[Trollboogie]

Yes, mine fits perfectly with the mucket seals, being level and even, and there is no whistling/ wind noise.

With as many of these that Bestop have sold, the Sunriders that do not fit well are a small sample size.

Yeah, mine doesn't fit that bad, just whistles. I was gonna put either a D shaped weather stripping, or a flat piece on the underside of the front edge just to put a little pressure on the front seal. Maybe that'll make it stop

 

[mtudb24]

Their engineering appears to be in MI.

They are about 20 mins away from me. Drive by the building all the time. If you ever come up to visit them, let me know

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