Auto Start/Stop to be removed says EPA chief

[Hootbro]

@Hootbro found one in the wild for you

Thanks, but I am not keeping score.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks, but I am not keeping score.

don't let it take away your sanity - some sanity is necessary here.

 

[Hootbro]

don't let it take away your sanity - some sanity is necessary here.

Naw, I think my sanity is intact still, maybe.

All kidding aside, I think forums suck when it comes to contentious topics. Things like tone, inflection and body language get missed when writing things out. Some things are more nuanced and do not always fit into a binary answer.

 

[rhaney02]

Some people, no matter how smart or educated (or think they are), tend to come off as condescending assholes.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Naw, I think my sanity is intact still, maybe.

Hope so

All kidding aside, I think forums suck when it comes to contentious topics. Things like tone, inflection and body language get missed when writing things out. Some things are more nuanced and do not always fit into a binary answer.

Exactly.

And for me - I have the knowledge, it's all up there, but getting it out in meaningful, useful ways, is next to impossible. On the practical side, can USE it. I'll take out a lot of top mechanics out there, but explaining how? Naw, can't do it.
I figured out several issues for various companies as a troubleshooter, but couldn't lay out how I did it or how I knew what I knew - I just knew it (and my fixes worked in every case)
My coworkers used to ask me to "teach me how you did this, how do you know" - couldn't do it. There was no way to pass it along. I know what I know, but can't put it into a form others can "get".
I was warned multiple times about it - my first IQ testing, then later when diagnosed severe ADHD - I'd know more than the average person, and get extremely frustrated, even mad, when others can't keep up and see the painting on the wall that's clearly there to see.

I can write magazine articles, tech articles, but I have to send through an editor to make them usable.
On the other hand - a judge once told me that if the attorneys that came before him in court could write up legal papers the way I did for him, his life would be so much easier.
Guess I should have been an attorney HAHAHA.
He literally called me into his office to discuss a paper I had presented on the ADA and my fight with the agency I worked for.
It impressed him enough he wanted to talk about it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Some people, no matter how smart or educated (or think they are), tend to come off as condescending assholes.

My son compares me to Sheldon Cooper. I know things, but lack any social graces at all. It's all part of it.

 

[Ding gus]

How is my maintenance more expensive?
I have a 3/36 (that includes batteries) and a drivetrain warranty. Once that is up, I would expect, like others have shown, these engines to go as far if not FARTHER than others, in part due to the
Batteries are going to go no matter what. You will go through batteries pretty much the same. It's your choice WHERE to buy batteries, you can spend less or more, buy better/bigger, or not.
That choice is on you.
So far, our Jeeps have been the most reliable vehicles we've ever owned short of a 1990 Camaro we had, which was actually a perfect car, no flaws ever.

Anything we say on cost is speculative - no matter which of is says it, yes. But having worked in manufacturing and engineering companies - they reach a point where they are using things that are pretty much no cost to them moving forward..

Bottom line is you hate it - go for it. You'll do whatever or say whatever to support your hate of it, that's fine. But not so much when opinions become facts on the web.

"But the other kids are all doing it........ "
good argument. China is being a jerk, so we should too.

As a society, we control what we can control.
And we also have control over such things to some extent, something about Novembers?

Sorry, it DOES save some of us - meaningful. But it's a given, even all the studies I've ever posted show it's "up to" - not ALL/EVERYONE. Some will save a lot, some won't save anything real.
Me - it saves, you it may not save you a dime.
But the point was to allow companies that otherwise could not meet CAFE rules to be able to earn credits and make fleet rules/numbers.
What if Stellantis could not earn and use those credits? What would be the fines they pay, and at what cost to us?
Shareholders will sell out and the company loses if they can't keep making money. Fines of any sort cost them money and are bad for stock prices. It's a matter of survival for some companies.

“I have a 3/36 (that includes batteries) and a drivetrain warranty.”

Your maintenence is more expensive by the simple fact that you have additional parts required by the ESS system with high failure count. Yes batteries will fail they don't last forever but the ESS system forces you to have additional batteries....which is a higher cost and just because you are covered under warranty does not mean the cost doesn't exist. Even for those that experience a failure within warranty such as myself there is still a time loss and additional cost for that. Time is not free. You've now backtracked from your initial 4 year estimate to moving the goalpost to 3 years to fit under your warranty claim.

You continue to evade simple facts with hiding behind short term warranty, avoiding cost/reliability, attacking personal motives, and deflecting to corporate policies, stock prices, and global pollutions.

“Anything we say on cost is speculative...”
Your just dismisses counterpoints by caiming subjectivity
Cost projections involve assumptions—but that doesn’t mean they’re meaningless.

“You hate it—go for it... You’ll do whatever or say whatever to support your hate of it.”
This is a classic ad hominem move: instead of addressing the topic at hand, you attack the intent of the person making it. It’s a deflection tactic that shifts the discussion from facts to motives. That’s toxic in a forum, because it tells people: “Disagree, and you’ll be labeled emotional or irrational.” I've posted no opinions about liking/disliking the system and continue to have my posts twisted to fit arguments that do not exist.

“What about aviation, ocean shipping, and China?”
“What if Stellantis could not earn and use those credits?”
This is more goalpost-shifting. These are big-picture policy issues—not the topic of whether the ESS system benefits a Jeep Gladiator owner financially over a typical ownership period.


If forum users can't discuss reasonable and simple financial issues without being deflected, dismissed, and morally challenged, they’ll stop posting. That's how productive conversation gets replaced by tribalism—and no one learns anything.

 

[Cooper_D]

Instead of trying to fix the engine with technology, which is partiality paid for by government, we should just change the fuel.

I have been a proponent of switching from petroleum to hydrogen since the early 70’s. The only thing that comes out of the exhaust is water.

Back then the objection from the fear mongers was ”Remember the Hindenburg“. Well it has been 20 years since I read where they fired a projectile through a tank filled with hydrogen and it did not blow up. Technology has come a long way in fuel storage.

Over the years there have been studies of having a hydrogen generator at your home negating the need to go to the gas station.

Yes I know that it takes electricity to produce hydrogen so please don’t waste your time telling me.

Personally I don’t want the start/stop feature, no one told me to think that way, but if it was an option I wouldn’t pay for it.

I am aware of both sides of the argument so no need to explain them to me I just don’t want it.

The biggest negative about the whole thing is if you take it to a dealership to get batteries replaced it will cost $800 and that may or may not include diagnostic.

If it was one battery under the hood I would just replace it, but in my 2020 Grand Cherokee it’s under the front passenger seat and they replaced it under warranty. The next time it’s my dime since I am not near as flexible as I used to be.

Woe be to the average consumer who has to take it to the dealer and be told that will be $800 + to replace… that use to buy a set of tires.

Just imagine the muscle cars we would be driving if they switched to hydrogen. No more “something is wrong with the pollution control garbage and they don’t know how to fix it“ explanation from dealers.

On a side note our biggest fear of having a hydrogen powered car is getting it too close to a burning Tesla. ok that was a joke people we need to lighten up a little on this topic.

 

[rhaney02]

Instead of trying to fix the engine with technology, which is partiality paid for by government, we should just change the fuel.

I have been a proponent of switching from petroleum to hydrogen since the early 70’s. The only thing that comes out of the exhaust is water.

Back then the objection from the fear mongers was ”Remember the Hindenburg“. Well it has been 20 years since I read where they fired a projectile through a tank filled with hydrogen and it did not blow up. Technology has come a long way in fuel storage.

Over the years there have been studies of having a hydrogen generator at your home negating the need to go to the gas station.

Yes I know that it takes electricity to produce hydrogen so please don’t waste your time telling me.

Personally I don’t want the start/stop feature, no one told me to think that way, but if it was an option I wouldn’t pay for it.

I am aware of both sides of the argument so no need to explain them to me I just don’t want it.

The biggest negative about the whole thing is if you take it to a dealership to get batteries replaced it will cost $800 and that may or may not include diagnostic.

If it was one battery under the hood I would just replace it, but in my 2020 Grand Cherokee it’s under the front passenger seat and they replaced it under warranty. The next time it’s my dime since I am not near as flexible as I used to be.

Woe be to the average consumer who has to take it to the dealer and be told that will be $800 + to replace… that use to buy a set of tires.

Just imagine the muscle cars we would be driving if they switched to hydrogen. No more “something is wrong with the pollution control garbage and they don’t know how to fix it“ explanation from dealers.

On a side note our biggest fear of having a hydrogen powered car is getting it too close to a burning Tesla. ok that was a joke people we need to lighten up a little on this topic.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That must have been invented by the guy my dad swore was killed to keep him quiet and the plans burned.

 

[rhaney02]

That must have been invented by the guy my dad swore was killed to keep him quiet and the plans burned.

 

[Cooper_D]

That must have been invented by the guy my dad swore was killed to keep him quiet and the plans burned.

You are probably thinking of the guy who built a carburetor that gets 100 mpg and the oil companies bought the rights and destroyed it.

I have had people tell me that and swear it was true

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