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Diagnosing ABS on 04 WJ and other WJ stuff.......

ShadowsPapa

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2004 WJ - are the rear axles easy enough to remove to replace an axle seal? I was looking at the brakes and ABS triggers and sensors and in the process discovered the right rear axle seal is leaking and there's grease all over the right parking brake shoes. Is it a hassle, or pretty easy, to remove the right rear axle, what all has to come off (my shop is full, garage is full, so would like to know the time involved as I have to do this outside and weather is - well, it's Iowa and October)

Again, 2004 WJ - ABS dash light came on a year ago. NO ONE has any scanners that can read the code to tell me where to start looking. On another forum (jeep related) it was suggested I just start digging and look at everything. Wow, I could spend a day and not narrow it down at all and there's no time for just starting to pull things apart and hope. They also suggested a $150 scanner could read the old Jeep ABS codes and I hate like heck to buy a scanner I'd use one time and then set it on a shelf for the rest of my life. Everything else I work on is either OBD I or older, and my JT - I have iCar and jscan for that so another scanner would also be a duplicate.
They suggested "take it to the local parts stores and they'll scan it" -yeah, they can IF it is "check engine" - no one can scan ABS for these things.
Well, then take it to a dealer, they'll scan it - yes, they will, for about $125. (minimum hourly charge)
So looking for much less expensive ideas that 150 bucks for a one time scan for ABS. Apparently it's possible some Jeeps used Mercedes code in those at that time????

I'd rent a tool if I could, but nothing in this area for rent, and then it would be a craps shoot as to if a given tool could read 2004 Jeep WJ ABS codes. (jscan cannot and so far has not responded to my questions anyway)
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Andrew05LJR

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2004 WJ - are the rear axles easy enough to remove to replace an axle seal? I was looking at the brakes and ABS triggers and sensors and in the process discovered the right rear axle seal is leaking and there's grease all over the right parking brake shoes. Is it a hassle, or pretty easy, to remove the right rear axle, what all has to come off (my shop is full, garage is full, so would like to know the time involved as I have to do this outside and weather is - well, it's Iowa and October)

Again, 2004 WJ - ABS dash light came on a year ago. NO ONE has any scanners that can read the code to tell me where to start looking. On another forum (jeep related) it was suggested I just start digging and look at everything. Wow, I could spend a day and not narrow it down at all and there's no time for just starting to pull things apart and hope. They also suggested a $150 scanner could read the old Jeep ABS codes and I hate like heck to buy a scanner I'd use one time and then set it on a shelf for the rest of my life. Everything else I work on is either OBD I or older, and my JT - I have iCar and jscan for that so another scanner would also be a duplicate.
They suggested "take it to the local parts stores and they'll scan it" -yeah, they can IF it is "check engine" - no one can scan ABS for these things.
Well, then take it to a dealer, they'll scan it - yes, they will, for about $125. (minimum hourly charge)
So looking for much less expensive ideas that 150 bucks for a one time scan for ABS. Apparently it's possible some Jeeps used Mercedes code in those at that time????

I'd rent a tool if I could, but nothing in this area for rent, and then it would be a craps shoot as to if a given tool could read 2004 Jeep WJ ABS codes. (jscan cannot and so far has not responded to my questions anyway)
Removing a rear axle and seal isn't rocket science, especially if you know your way around the Jeep, which sounds like you do. Is it a Dana 35 or 44? Your biggest challenge will be any corrosion making bolts hard to remove. Other than that, knowing how to rebuild brake shoes, its an easy process. They should be very similar to a TJ/LJ axle removal which Ive done too many times.

As far as ABS codes, Im assuming you've cleaned the sensor? Not trying to sound condescending but ABS sensors are relatively simple technology and if its covered in oil/dirt/grime it may need read. Control units are a problem in those years which isn't terribly expensive. My honest opinion, Id tear apart the axle, fix the seal, clean the sensor and wiring connections. Make sure the tone ring isn't missing teeth or something. This will be your cheapest route to narrow your issue. If that doesn't solve it, you're left with no other solution but a diagnostic fee. I'd rather pay a diag fee than throwing parts at the issue as well.
 
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ShadowsPapa

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Removing a rear axle and seal isn't rocket science, especially if you know your way around the Jeep, which sounds like you do. Is it a Dana 35 or 44? Your biggest challenge will be any corrosion making bolts hard to remove. Other than that, knowing how to rebuild brake shoes, its an easy process. They should be very similar to a TJ/LJ axle removal which Ive done too many times.

As far as ABS codes, Im assuming you've cleaned the sensor? Not trying to sound condescending but ABS sensors are relatively simple technology and if its covered in oil/dirt/grime it may need read. Control units are a problem in those years which isn't terribly expensive. My honest opinion, Id tear apart the axle, fix the seal, clean the sensor and wiring connections. Make sure the tone ring isn't missing teeth or something. This will be your cheapest route to narrow your issue. If that doesn't solve it, you're left with no other solution but a diagnostic fee. I'd rather pay a diag fee than throwing parts at the issue as well.
All logical. Yeah, I don't want to just start tossing parts at it. That's for sure - it's a nice Jeep, but it's not worth spending another grand on it after I sank about 3200 on rocker panels.
I plugged the VIN into the Jeep web site and got back a build sheet/equipment listing and it's a Dana 35C/194MM in the rear. (I thought the Eagle front axles were Dana 35s at the core)

Anyway, seeing that leaking seal that has become my new priority with this thing. It becomes a safety issue as with no ABS, it means that wheel's brakes could stick due to the stick gummy nature of the leak back there. Contrary to popular expectations, grease can cause brakes to lock, not slip and slide, unless it's just dripping with grease, which they almost never are. A little sticks, a lot slips.
So I need to deal with that. Rusty bolts - yes. The thing is not a rust bucket like many that age, but still - there's rust on the suspension and steering parts. I'd have like heck to have to adjust the track bar after taking a good look at things! Body, not bad - other stuff........... I think I also found the "clunk" - the spring pads are mushy and split and the bump stops are really gross looking. The shocks actually look original - WOW.

Tone rings all look good. Sensors look good as well,. I took a brush and cleaned around them just in case, but they look ok. The right rear likely has some of that differential lube on it - looks damp but not gross. That will get dealt with when cleaning up after the seal leak. The main disk brake pads are just starting to get lube on them. Luckily the lube gets to the e-brake shoes and the inside of that drum/rotor first before slinging out to the main brake pads.

Already far too many projects going on -don't need another one! Rats. I have my Javelin torn down for door hinges and cluster mods/fixes, my niece's car is still in my shop waiting for me to get back to it to rebuild it, have parts arriving for my JT, my wife's new GC will be arriving, there's that to pick up and she'll want the door openers programmed post-haste - anyone want a job for a while LOL - I think I need a shop assistant.
 

Andrew05LJR

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All logical. Yeah, I don't want to just start tossing parts at it. That's for sure - it's a nice Jeep, but it's not worth spending another grand on it after I sank about 3200 on rocker panels.
I plugged the VIN into the Jeep web site and got back a build sheet/equipment listing and it's a Dana 35C/194MM in the rear. (I thought the Eagle front axles were Dana 35s at the core)

Anyway, seeing that leaking seal that has become my new priority with this thing. It becomes a safety issue as with no ABS, it means that wheel's brakes could stick due to the stick gummy nature of the leak back there. Contrary to popular expectations, grease can cause brakes to lock, not slip and slide, unless it's just dripping with grease, which they almost never are. A little sticks, a lot slips.
So I need to deal with that. Rusty bolts - yes. The thing is not a rust bucket like many that age, but still - there's rust on the suspension and steering parts. I'd have like heck to have to adjust the track bar after taking a good look at things! Body, not bad - other stuff........... I think I also found the "clunk" - the spring pads are mushy and split and the bump stops are really gross looking. The shocks actually look original - WOW.

Tone rings all look good. Sensors look good as well,. I took a brush and cleaned around them just in case, but they look ok. The right rear likely has some of that differential lube on it - looks damp but not gross. That will get dealt with when cleaning up after the seal leak. The main disk brake pads are just starting to get lube on them. Luckily the lube gets to the e-brake shoes and the inside of that drum/rotor first before slinging out to the main brake pads.

Already far too many projects going on -don't need another one! Rats. I have my Javelin torn down for door hinges and cluster mods/fixes, my niece's car is still in my shop waiting for me to get back to it to rebuild it, have parts arriving for my JT, my wife's new GC will be arriving, there's that to pick up and she'll want the door openers programmed post-haste - anyone want a job for a while LOL - I think I need a shop assistant.
Hear you on all accounts! You may want to see what a drop out axle assembly would be. May be worth swaping a whole axle assembly to resolve some of the other issues you have and D35s are pretty inexpensive. Disconnect everything, drop axle and install new one. No more spring pad issue, bump stop, rust, aging hardware etc. May be actually less work all things considered. I realize that doesn't solve your ABS issue however
 
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ShadowsPapa

ShadowsPapa

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Hear you on all accounts! You may want to see what a drop out axle assembly would be. May be worth swaping a whole axle assembly to resolve some of the other issues you have and D35s are pretty inexpensive. Disconnect everything, drop axle and install new one. No more spring pad issue, bump stop, rust, aging hardware etc. May be actually less work all things considered. I realize that doesn't solve your ABS issue however
Yeah, it doesn't, but then that leak is priority now - with no ABS it's even worse. If I made ABS priority over that, I'd still have lube getting to brakes, even worse - could lead to other troubles.
I noted a couple of months ago that the parking brake didn't hold real well - that's likely part of the issue - minor in the grand scheme - but it all fits the whole picture.
 

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Andrew05LJR

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Yeah, it doesn't, but then that leak is priority now - with no ABS it's even worse. If I made ABS priority over that, I'd still have lube getting to brakes, even worse - could lead to other troubles.
I noted a couple of months ago that the parking brake didn't hold real well - that's likely part of the issue - minor in the grand scheme - but it all fits the whole picture.
I asked my Dad who worked with Chrysler for years and knows Jeeps better than most. Said he would be shocked if it wasn't a sensor or the control unit. Pure speculation but he said they had a recall on certain years control units. Relatively inexpensive for rebuilt ones but Id want to learn the codes first. My LJs required constant adjustment of the brake cable, years of use they'd stretch and the springs that connect to the shoe would become weak.
 
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ShadowsPapa

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I asked my Dad who worked with Chrysler for years and knows Jeeps better than most. Said he would be shocked if it wasn't a sensor or the control unit. Pure speculation but he said they had a recall on certain years control units. Relatively inexpensive for rebuilt ones but Id want to learn the codes first. My LJs required constant adjustment of the brake cable, years of use they'd stretch and the springs that connect to the shoe would become weak.
This one has the feel of being adjusted, in fact, about 1/3 of the way up and you can't pull a lot more. and pulling the rotors off I could tell there was a slight drag on the shoes inside but when things get fixed with that seal I planned on cleaning the the brake parts, replacing the pads (since the right has some lube on them and you can never get it fully out) and the e-brake shoes are SOAKED, so they'll get replaced anyway. Don't like just tossing brakes back together - too much risk. I'll put up with an engine that takes some time to get there but brakes must act NOW, not in a few seconds.

I am going to guess the control unit - I have heard about issues with those -apparently a solder joint problem. Some take them off and resolder that area but it looks like you have to cut it open and mess around a lot with it.
If I can find a way to read the codes - and if it points to the control unit - I'd likely just replace it. But again, don't want to slap on one or take that one off anc cut ir open only to find a cheaper and easier sensor was bad! And I don't want to toss sensors at it only to find there's still trouble.
 

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This one has the feel of being adjusted, in fact, about 1/3 of the way up and you can't pull a lot more. and pulling the rotors off I could tell there was a slight drag on the shoes inside but when things get fixed with that seal I planned on cleaning the the brake parts, replacing the pads (since the right has some lube on them and you can never get it fully out) and the e-brake shoes are SOAKED, so they'll get replaced anyway. Don't like just tossing brakes back together - too much risk. I'll put up with an engine that takes some time to get there but brakes must act NOW, not in a few seconds.

I am going to guess the control unit - I have heard about issues with those -apparently a solder joint problem. Some take them off and resolder that area but it looks like you have to cut it open and mess around a lot with it.
If I can find a way to read the codes - and if it points to the control unit - I'd likely just replace it. But again, don't want to slap on one or take that one off anc cut ir open only to find a cheaper and easier sensor was bad! And I don't want to toss sensors at it only to find there's still trouble.
.
Agreed, throwing parts at anything is a recipe for disaster and frustration. Brakes are relatively inexpensive and replacing only improves the daily use anyway so you get benefits from it. I'd cough up the diag fee to see where you need to head.
 
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ShadowsPapa

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.
Agreed, throwing parts at anything is a recipe for disaster and frustration. Brakes are relatively inexpensive and replacing only improves the daily use anyway so you get benefits from it. I'd cough up the diag fee to see where you need to head.
Yeah, it looks like no one knows of any software scanner that will do these, let alone a WJ ABS system in conjunction with the iCar or similar type devices and even the dedicated hardware scanners are 100 - 150 bucks.

I'll have to see if the local dealer can do it........
 
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ShadowsPapa

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Removing a rear axle and seal isn't rocket science, especially if you know your way around the Jeep, which sounds like you do. Is it a Dana 35 or 44? Your biggest challenge will be any corrosion making bolts hard to remove. Other than that, knowing how to rebuild brake shoes, its an easy process. They should be very similar to a TJ/LJ axle removal which Ive done too many times.

As far as ABS codes, Im assuming you've cleaned the sensor? Not trying to sound condescending but ABS sensors are relatively simple technology and if its covered in oil/dirt/grime it may need read. Control units are a problem in those years which isn't terribly expensive. My honest opinion, Id tear apart the axle, fix the seal, clean the sensor and wiring connections. Make sure the tone ring isn't missing teeth or something. This will be your cheapest route to narrow your issue. If that doesn't solve it, you're left with no other solution but a diagnostic fee. I'd rather pay a diag fee than throwing parts at the issue as well.
RATS! This thing has a Dana 35C according to the build sheet and by just looking. It's the egg-shaped cover with the rubber plug, not the nearly hex shape with the metal plug.
That means I have to pull the cover and everything people have sent me on parts will be WRONG!
I hate to have to pull that cover off and remove the stupid C-clip but I guess, no choice.
So much for 4 nuts and yank the axle out.
 

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Andrew05LJR

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RATS! This thing has a Dana 35C according to the build sheet and by just looking. It's the egg-shaped cover with the rubber plug, not the nearly hex shape with the metal plug.
That means I have to pull the cover and everything people have sent me on parts will be WRONG!
I hate to have to pull that cover off and remove the stupid C-clip but I guess, no choice.
So much for 4 nuts and yank the axle out.
Ugh! I didn’t even think of that.
 
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ShadowsPapa

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OK, I'm laughing at my own panic. The 35C should stand for "clip-less" and not 35 Custom LOL
I got stubborn and decided, everyone says "no, you can just pull it" and after jacking up the other side for better access to the cover, I thought - I'll either pull it or bust it or totally exhaust myself trying.
Well, after some massive hard hammer blows on the small slide hammer Ihave for pulling other stuff - I used a chain bolted around the hub and then bolted around the end of the slide hammer - I tried pulling - took a break and noticed more end play in the axle - so I tried again and finally the axle slid out. The 35C is apparently the same ad the Dana 44 as far as the way the axle is held in, same bearing and seal and such. YEAH! I didn't have to pull the cover (which isn't leaking and I'd rather not mess with although I may eventually pull it to change lube anyway)
So the axle is out and in my solvent tank to clean so I can get the bearing and seal off without making an even BIGGER mess in my shop than it already is.
My wife asked "why didn't you wash your hands" before coming in for luch - I told her I did, twice!

So, the Dana 35 has the clips retaining the axle like a lot of GM did, the Dana 35C technically means 35 Custom, but may as well mean "clipless" as it has the tapered roller bearing and not the rollers running directly on the axle. The 35c pulls out like the D44 axle. Whew.
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