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Key Fob Follies

Artsifrtsi

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Sorry I reopened this topic which was dormant for a few days. I was really wondering if the size was related to range.
So you are wondering if size matters... LOL!
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ShadowsPapa

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Sorry I reopened this topic which was dormant for a few days. I was really wondering if the size was related to range.
What's really interesting is that the rest of a vehicle can be near-perfect. A person loves it or at least is satisfied with the vehicle. Then one little thing which really has no big impact in the grand scheme of things, it's annoying at best, but has no impact on the product usability as a truck, it's life, mpg, towing or payload, comfort while driving, HVAC, visibility in traffic, no other functionality, and that one not so little physically thing is worth pages.
My wife drove my 04 WJ today to help one of her friends finish moving - and she was complaining that she had to actually insert a key! (her handicap means it's a huge deal for her to get a key in the hole that's at a weird angle on those Jeeps)
Now THERE's a real complaint.
 

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No, no you guys are good. I get it, the fob is big and it requires some reassessment of logistics. And yeah, when the operation of the vehicle itself is an impediment to operating the vehicle; that's a problem. And I get that. As someone who might not exactly be able to feel the take up point of the clutch, how the clutch "do" is an important test drive question.

But others in this have given far too many words over to something that's not changing.
 

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No, no you guys are good. I get it, the fob is big and it requires some reassessment of logistics. And yeah, when the operation of the vehicle itself is an impediment to operating the vehicle; that's a problem. And I get that. As someone who might not exactly be able to feel the take up point of the clutch, how the clutch "do" is an important test drive question.

But others in this have given far too many words over to something that's not changing.
Simple fix - bigger pockets - or, a holster, or cut/grind off the high portion of the button that trips the key so it can't be accidentally released in pocket.
There, all fixed.

Every single JT owner has received at least two surveys - they have all sorts of questions on those surveys and even places to "add more" or editorialize.
They'll even follow-up with a phone call if you wish!! Just check the box and include a phone number.
So complete the surveys, be honest but be nice, and when they call you - let them know you feel the fob is too big, the key pops out in the pocket, and your biggest desire for the next model year is a smaller key fob and if they make the key fob smaller you will tell everyone you meet they need to go by a new JT with a perfectly sized key fob.

No use complaining here - OTOH, maybe there is as FORD monitors these forums and will see the key fob issue and the next FoMoCo national marketing campaign will compare JT key fob to the much more reasonable and streamlined Bronco key fob.
 

SwampNut

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I think someone else may have raised this question - the size may have something to do with range? The antenna in the fob?

Yesterday, out of curiosity, I tried it just as I came out of Costco; I had line of sight to my JT. The locks opened, so I paced the distance: 150 feet. The smallish fob I had on my old Dakota would work at maybe 20 feet.
All radios employ some type of antenna. The fob has three radios; one that's only sort of a radio. The pushbuttons operate a radio with a "large" radiating antenna that transmits in the range of 315 MHz. Like you, I've found that the JT has far greater range than the JK, so that leads me to believe it has a better antenna (which generally means larger, not strictly always). Then there's an active RFID radio which is what tells it exactly where the key is, and is used for the proximity stuff like unlocking and starting. It needs only a fairly short range, small antenna. There are antennas in various places in the vehicle so it can detect the fob location. The "sort of" radio is the one that lets you press the key to the start button and operate the ignition even if the fob battery is dead. It's passive RFID which means it gets power from a coil in the dash, and transmits using a stub antenna that is not tuned to the frequency, and technically does EM coupling to the receiver instead of radiated RF.

Source: FCC licensed in microwave and ham for decades, have deployed building RFID systems, currently have an NFC chip implanted in my left hand.

Sorry I reopened this topic which was dormant for a few days. I was really wondering if the size was related to range.
No, thank you, it's a slow day and I will enjoy this topic again. Remember that there's just one trolling lunatic who has already said things like the key is too big and heavy for him to add to his 55 pound pack when he hikes for three weeks at a time. He's running out of material.
 

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SwampNut

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A friend who has a nice loaded 2018 4Runner drove the Gladiator yesterday. He commented on how much better the Gladiator display is, that it's actually smoother on the highway, better acceleration, and loved the ACC which he doesn't have. He loves the dash layout and windshield visibility. Commented that the Toyota dash is "too busy."

Oddly, he didn't tell me he hated the key. In fact he said he wants to convert his key to a switchblade like this one. He said he hates that even as new and loaded as his is, why the hell do you still have a regular key in 2018??
 

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All radios employ some type of antenna. The fob has three radios; one that's only sort of a radio. The pushbuttons operate a radio with a "large" radiating antenna that transmits in the range of 315 MHz. Like you, I've found that the JT has far greater range than the JK, so that leads me to believe it has a better antenna (which generally means larger, not strictly always). Then there's an active RFID radio which is what tells it exactly where the key is, and is used for the proximity stuff like unlocking and starting. It needs only a fairly short range, small antenna. There are antennas in various places in the vehicle so it can detect the fob location. The "sort of" radio is the one that lets you press the key to the start button and operate the ignition even if the fob battery is dead. It's passive RFID which means it gets power from a coil in the dash, and transmits using a stub antenna that is not tuned to the frequency, and technically does EM coupling to the receiver instead of radiated RF.

Source: FCC licensed in microwave and ham for decades, have deployed building RFID systems, currently have an NFC chip implanted in my left hand.



No, thank you, it's a slow day and I will enjoy this topic again. Remember that there's just one trolling lunatic who has already said things like the key is too big and heavy for him to add to his 55 pound pack when he hikes for three weeks at a time. He's running out of material.
So you must stay clear of the electromagnet lab at ISU that has all the huge warning plaques stating to stay away if you have any implants or electronic devices and so on. Yards away they start posting the warnings. Some folks I know would be pulled right up hard against the wall, unable to move.
 

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A friend who has a nice loaded 2018 4Runner drove the Gladiator yesterday. He commented on how much better the Gladiator display is, that it's actually smoother on the highway, better acceleration, and loved the ACC which he doesn't have. He loves the dash layout and windshield visibility. Commented that the Toyota dash is "too busy."

Oddly, he didn't tell me he hated the key. In fact he said he wants to convert his key to a switchblade like this one. He said he hates that even as new and loaded as his is, why the hell do you still have a regular key in 2018??
You saw that my wife used my 04 WJ to help a friend finish moving and she said "I suppose I have to stick a key in it.......... and then "crap".
Yup, the ignition key hole is in an inconvenient place, too.

16 years, 126,000 miles, original engine and transmission - I can't complain too much about that old WJ, I guess.
 

eaglerugby04

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On vacation this week, needed to take the van due to the space it provides, after just a few days the limp is gone out of my right leg from having the carry the fob!!!! lol

In all seriousness though it takes up as much space as the remote and key for the Van. It is nice not having to find an extended key about 20 times a day like I do with the fob though. Seriously if that button could just be a little tighter I could get used to it.
 

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So you must stay clear of the electromagnet lab at ISU that has all the huge warning plaques stating to stay away if you have any implants or electronic devices and so on. Yards away they start posting the warnings. Some folks I know would be pulled right up hard against the wall, unable to move.
No, the implant is rated to a 3T MRI (being inside it). So proximity is no big deal. Also the issue as I understand it with most implants isn't that they'd be pulled, as most are non-magnetic. It's that they will heat up and burn you. In the 90s I accidentally walked into the back room of a 5T MRI with two PCs. They weren't pulled out of my hands, but were internally destroyed.

If I ever need an MRI above three Tesla then it will probably get removed, if they can't just shield it.

The WJ/XJ/ZJ has never been my thing at all. But my son had a ZJ, and I helped a friend buy an Overlander WJ. In all cases I loved driving them, and abusing them offroad. Just not for me as a daily, but enjoyed some of their advantages like the full time 4WD.
 

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No, the implant is rated to a 3T MRI (being inside it). So proximity is no big deal. Also the issue as I understand it with most implants isn't that they'd be pulled, as most are non-magnetic. It's that they will heat up and burn you. In the 90s I accidentally walked into the back room of a 5T MRI with two PCs. They weren't pulled out of my hands, but were internally destroyed.

If I ever need an MRI above three Tesla then it will probably get removed, if they can't just shield it.

The WJ/XJ/ZJ has never been my thing at all. But my son had a ZJ, and I helped a friend buy an Overlander WJ. In all cases I loved driving them, and abusing them offroad. Just not for me as a daily, but enjoyed some of their advantages like the full time 4WD.
I had a science teacher who demonstrated the impact of fields on coils - shot a small aluminum ring into the ceiling and it was so hot you couldn't even come close to touching it, so I can imagine the impact. In his demonstration, the field created within the coil was opposite of the field exposed to it and it shot like a bullet! There was a BANG and it was GONE - all by an electromagnetic field.

I've had a number of the 90s and early 2000's Grand Cherokees. They'll go anywhere and SAFE as heck. I really wish there was at least a full-time option in the JT.
The ZJ I got my 4.0 from for the Eagle was flipped when the driver missed a T, hit a sharp embankment and it flipped and landed on the roof.
The A-pillars were INTACT. The roof was a little flatter than designed but not pushed in. The windshield was broken but still in place. The radiator and AC condenser were messed up but the front end wasn't crushed. Amazing for what the guy told me it went through when I trailed the Jeep home to grab the engine and wiring and electronics for my experiment.
Wham - full speed into an embankment, flipping it, landing on the roof, and walk away, cabin area intact, not crushed.
After my father was killed by a sleeping driver, I bought his 04 WJ for more than one reason. I love the sleek, styled, non-fat look, the reliability, and it had been his - he was proud of that thing, among the most fancy thing he'd ever owned. He did buy it used, the only NEW thing he had ever owned was his 2010 Ranger and that was totaled when the sleeping kid hit him and it. The Jeep was still in his garage where it was always kept.
Talk about fob follies - he had ONE fob, one key. They were on his person when he was hit.
My brother got them from the coroner in a plastic bag. My brother tried to remove the "body fluids" and clean it up - the fob worked for a while, but it was a disaster inside. So I dug through my stash of keys and fobs from past vehicles and found two fobs from past Jeeps - one from a 2003 WJ we owned, another from a 2000 we had owned, and had those programmed into the vehicle. Luckily both 2000 and 2003 were also WJ like the 04 so they both worked fine with it.
 

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On vacation this week, needed to take the van due to the space it provides, after just a few days the limp is gone out of my right leg from having the carry the fob!!!! lol

In all seriousness though it takes up as much space as the remote and key for the Van. It is nice not having to find an extended key about 20 times a day like I do with the fob though. Seriously if that button could just be a little tighter I could get used to it.
Serious Question
I had an Audi Key for 8 years that seems identical with the flip out function, never had an issue. Ive had this Jeep fob for months and dont find myself getting poked with it opening. It simply doesnt open. What exactly is everyone doing that has this problem? Is it front pockets that are tighter? Skinny jeans or lycra shorts? I wear old man jeans and baggy shorts, so if thats it then thats why. Im just surprised this is even an issue but I believe you all. Im not saying youre lying. I want to understand why it hasnt been a problem for me for years and now its a pandemic.
 

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It's a pretty light push. I wear my key on a clip on my belt loops. But for about a week at first I didn't have a proper clip (the one from my JK didn't fit this insanely huge key (hahaha)). I found that it opened just a couple times from pressing against something, like a table or shop bench. Which was still not as bad as a normal pointy key like the JK key, which is why I stopped putting it in a pocket at all.
 

DreamedofaJeepSomeday

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I really wish there was at least a full-time option in the JT.
The JT was rolled out with a lot of options. But not nearly as many as the JL. I imagine it is partly marketing - they can introduce additional options over several years to get owners to trade up.
 

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Serious Question
I had an Audi Key for 8 years that seems identical with the flip out function, never had an issue. Ive had this Jeep fob for months and dont find myself getting poked with it opening. It simply doesnt open. What exactly is everyone doing that has this problem? Is it front pockets that are tighter? Skinny jeans or lycra shorts? I wear old man jeans and baggy shorts, so if thats it then thats why. Im just surprised this is even an issue but I believe you all. Im not saying youre lying. I want to understand why it hasnt been a problem for me for years and now its a pandemic.
The button sticks out - A LOT. It doesn't take much of a "push".
I have other keys in the same pocket - a ring with house, garage, shop, trailer tool box and a couple of other keys, in that same pocket. If you reach in for the other keys, I find that not always, but say, once or twice a week, the JT key is extended. I have found leaning over the tailgate to get something inside the back end, leaning over a car, working on it, brushing against a counter or table - doesn't take much of a push at all, and the key is out.
If that button was RECESSED or took even a tiny bit more pressure to release the key, it would help, especially the former - most folks can push on a button that's even with a surface - don't need the button sticking out 1/8" or more.
So the fellow who ground his off carefully and rounded the edges to make them not sharp - he had the idea - you can STILL release the key extremely easily if the button doesn't protrude so bloody far.
I'm very seriously considering taking my Dremel with the metal cutting disk and taking my fob button down to all but level with the case.
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