leveling kit and alignment

[red/green hawk]

You realize on Jeeps like these, there is only one adjustment that can be made with stock control arms for an alignment... setting toe. If you have adjustable control arms, then you can set the castor and the front and rear axle thrust. If Camber is out, you probably need ball joints, or a new axle. That's it, period.

For less money than you pay for an alignment, and less time than it takes to drive to the shop doing the alignment (not including the HD run), you can go to Home depot, buy a couple 36" aluminum 90° brackets, a couple clamps, and a tape measure, and measure/set the toe yourself in your garage or driveway. I check the tow on mine every other tire rotation, as I have the truck on stands at that time anyway... literally adds less than 15 minutes to the rotation. That $80+ that the alignment costs makes for a great dinner out, a tank of gas, a couple bobbles for the Jeeps, etc...

No I didn't realize that...it's why I get an alignment done everytime I do anything that remotely changes the O.E.M. geometry specs...because I know absolutely nothing about alignments. I'm secure enough in my manhood that I can admit that.

How much $$$$ have you spent on mods? $80 comparitively on an alignment once every 3-4 years is really nothing. Have you gone out to eat lately? Now this could be just the difference between me and you and I'm okay with that but I think you get more bang for the buck by spending $80 on an alignment than you do spending it going out to eat. Have you been out to eat lately?

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[ShadowsPapa]

All you get out of a dealership alignment is a printout showing the current numbers vs. specs.
It's ok to help track wear or abnormalities, but calling it "doing an alignment" is a bit much since all they do is CHECK and maybe adjust toe as things wear.
If you do a lot of off-roading or severe use that bangs on the steering and suspension, it's worth more for a check of the numbers than to someone like me who doesn't beat on the steering and alignment.
"Doing an alignment" is strictly checking the numbers and maybe setting toe if needed to compensate for wear (or perhaps damage)
Doing an alignment like I did for years on most everything on the road at that time did consist of actually DOING something - adjusting caster, camber, toe, centering the steering wheel, checking thoroughly for loose or damaged steering or suspension components. Even then, the adjustments were often to compensate for age/wear/damage.
Once set, if nothing wears, what can change? Especially on a Jeep! Nothing can change unless you have wear.

 

[red/green hawk]

All you get out of a dealership alignment is a printout showing the current numbers vs. specs.
It's ok to help track wear or abnormalities, but calling it "doing an alignment" is a bit much since all they do is CHECK and maybe adjust toe as things wear.
If you do a lot of off-roading or severe use that bangs on the steering and suspension, it's worth more for a check of the numbers than to someone like me who doesn't beat on the steering and alignment.
"Doing an alignment" is strictly checking the numbers and maybe setting toe if needed to compensate for wear (or perhaps damage)
Doing an alignment like I did for years on most everything on the road at that time did consist of actually DOING something - adjusting caster, camber, toe, centering the steering wheel, checking thoroughly for loose or damaged steering or suspension components. Even then, the adjustments were often to compensate for age/wear/damage.
Once set, if nothing wears, what can change? Especially on a Jeep! Nothing can change unless you have wear.

Excuse me, I get an alignment check after new tires, etc...and I'm sure not going to take it to a dealer to have it checked.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Excuse me, I get an alignment check after new tires, etc...and I'm sure not going to take it to a dealer to have it checked.

Even a tire shop can't do anything but give you a printout, maybe adjust toe to compensate for wear.
I don't care where you take it, it's nothing more than a printout of the numbers and possible toe adjustment (only needed to compensate for wear or damage)

Only a real 4x4 shop that knows their stuff can do any more - and that would involve replacing parts. And most of those will do the same -put it on a rack, fire up the computer, print out the numbers.

These just can't be adjusted.
When I get new tires on my JT - I'm not going to mess with paying that much money to get a printout of the numbers.
When I had these General tires put on, I didn't mess with paying for any alignment.
Why should I?
The tires are wearing perfectly even, it goes straight down the road, it steers and handles as well as any truck or Jeep I've ever owned. There's no signs I need to do anything.

My cars, that's different - I deal with the alignment on those because of how they differ - IFS. A whole lot more to go wrong or wear or go out of spec.
Spring droop or wear and so on makes a big difference on IFS.

 

[red/green hawk]

Even a tire shop can't do anything but give you a printout, maybe adjust toe to compensate for wear.
I don't care where you take it, it's nothing more than a printout of the numbers and possible toe adjustment (only needed to compensate for wear or damage)

Only a real 4x4 shop that knows their stuff can do any more - and that would involve replacing parts. And most of those will do the same -put it on a rack, fire up the computer, print out the numbers.

These just can't be adjusted.
When I get new tires on my JT - I'm not going to mess with paying that much money to get a printout of the numbers.
When I had these General tires put on, I didn't mess with paying for any alignment.
Why should I?
The tires are wearing perfectly even, it goes straight down the road, it steers and handles as well as any truck or Jeep I've ever owned. There's no signs I need to do anything.

My cars, that's different - I deal with the alignment on those because of how they differ - IFS. A whole lot more to go wrong or wear or go out of spec.
Spring droop or wear and so on makes a big difference on IFS.

So a JT can never get out of alignment? I get the difference between solid axles and IFS. If I put a lift kit on or put on larger tires it doesn't change anything?

I would never get an alignment checked at a tire shop for the same reasons I would never get my oil changed at a Wal-mart or JiffyLube. I'm not advocating for that.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So a JT can never get out of alignment? I get the difference between solid axles and IFS. If I put a lift kit on or put on larger tires it doesn't change anything?

I would never get an alignment checked at a tire shop for the same reasons I would never get my oil changed at a Wal-mart or JiffyLube. I'm not advocating for that.

They can get out of alignment with damage or enough wear - in that case, it's time to replace parts.
You can't adjust for it, you can't "align" it without parts replacement other than setting toe. You can't adjust caster or camber on a stock Jeep.
If camber is out, your ball joints are toast, or the axle is bent.
If caster is out, you may have shot bushings or damage, but you can't adjust caster to compensate for bushing wear. If they are worn enough to throw caster off, they need to be replaced which would put caster right back where it belongs, with no alignment needed.

If you put a lift kit on, it can change caster. That's all.
The only solution is either longer lower control arms (included with MOPAR 2" lift kits) or adjustable control arms - or with a big enough lift, correction brackets.

A lift kit can't possibly change camber or toe.
A high enough lift may require recentering the steering wheel - easily done at home.

Putting on larger tires has no impact on the alignment.
You can swap tires every month and it won't change the alignment.
A change in tire size drastic enough may require different toe settings, but nothing else.

Don't tell me you have a "reputable 4x4 shop" do the alignments. Ok...........

 

[red/green hawk]

They can get out of alignment with damage or enough wear - in that case, it's time to replace parts.
You can't adjust for it, you can't "align" it without parts replacement other than setting toe. You can't adjust caster or camber on a stock Jeep.
If camber is out, your ball joints are toast, or the axle is bent.
If caster is out, you may have shot bushings or damage, but you can't adjust caster to compensate for bushing wear. If they are worn enough to throw caster off, they need to be replaced which would put caster right back where it belongs, with no alignment needed.

If you put a lift kit on, it can change caster. That's all.
The only solution is either longer lower control arms (included with MOPAR 2" lift kits) or adjustable control arms - or with a big enough lift, correction brackets.

A lift kit can't possibly change camber or toe.
A high enough lift may require recentering the steering wheel - easily done at home.

Putting on larger tires has no impact on the alignment.
You can swap tires every month and it won't change the alignment.
A change in tire size drastic enough may require different toe settings, but nothing else.

Don't tell me you have a "reputable 4x4 shop" do the alignments. Ok...........

4x4 shop? No just a guy I've been using for the last 20 yrs...family friend...been wrenching for close to 40 yrs...that was you once right? A retired mechanic? So you admit there is a reason to get the numbers every once in a while? Parts don't last like they used to. If I get a new set of tires every 3-4 yrs its unreasonable to get a readout to see where my rig is sitting? LIke I said, I'm man enough to admit when I don't know how to do something, which you might judge me for this but centering a steering wheel and checking for toe in the driveway are a couple of those things.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

How much $$$$ have you spent on mods? $80 comparitively on an alignment once every 3-4 years is really nothing. Have you gone out to eat lately? Now this could be just the difference between me and you and I'm okay with that but I think you get more bang for the buck by spending $80 on an alignment than you do spending it going out to eat. Have you been out to eat lately?

How much? Which Jeep or car?

last time I got an alignment done was around 30 years ago after I was rear ended, and that was part of the shops rebuild of my car.

We do Mediterranean take out, and an assorted selection on another night… so we take out about twice a week. Definitely get more bang for the buck when we dine

So you like needlessly spending… good for you. I’d rather (and do) spend on memories. Part of that is teaching my children that it’s ok to do things yourself, such as rotate tires, perform oil changes, replace water heaters, mow lawn, rewire a shop. We stay busy, my kids can do all that, can build and fly their own airplanes and rockets, hit homeruns, and run statistical analysis to calculate uncertainties in measurements… and my kid is 10…

maybe I’m just too much of a control freak, and want to be able to control while also understanding as much about my business and life as I can… I do find it a bit infuriating when I don’t understand, or can actually do a thing…. But I also have a difficult time trying to understand why someone will pay a lot of money to admit they are clueless about something…

 

[ShadowsPapa]

We stay busy, my kids can do all that, can build and fly their own airplanes and rockets, hit homeruns, and run statistical analysis to calculate uncertainties in measurements… and my kid is 10…

We were walking through my son's garage in FL last visit and he pointed out a couple of skate boards my grandson no longer used and just tossed around in a pile of stuff, and he commented on how much Anson, my grandson, liked to use the leaf blower after the sidewalk was edged or the lawn was mowed.
I made a comment - "hmmmm, skate board plus leaf blower.......hmmm......."
Anson was listening and quickly grabbed both and this was the result - (and in return, my son says to me "gee, thanks, Dad")

 

[red/green hawk]

How much? Which Jeep or car?

last time I got an alignment done was around 30 years ago after I was rear ended, and that was part of the shops rebuild of my car.

We do Mediterranean take out, and an assorted selection on another night… so we take out about twice a week. Definitely get more bang for the buck when we dine

So you like needlessly spending… good for you. I’d rather (and do) spend on memories. Part of that is teaching my children that it’s ok to do things yourself, such as rotate tires, perform oil changes, replace water heaters, mow lawn, rewire a shop. We stay busy, my kids can do all that, can build and fly their own airplanes and rockets, hit homeruns, and run statistical analysis to calculate uncertainties in measurements… and my kid is 10…

maybe I’m just too much of a control freak, and want to be able to control while also understanding as much about my business and life as I can… I do find it a bit infuriating when I don’t understand, or can actually do a thing…. But I also have a difficult time trying to understand why someone will pay a lot of money to admit they are clueless about something…

Cool story bro...$85 4 years ago means absolutely nothing right now...

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Cool story bro...$85 4 years ago means absolutely nothing right now...

Means close to the same when you still live in an area that is not a fantasy land. And you are right, but even if things go right this fall, it’s highly doubtful that thing will return…

 

[JohnWick]

There is nothing to align other than setting the steering wheel back straight, which can be done in your driveway. I'm surprised you didn't have to do that. When I put the 1.5" Teraflex on my truck the drag link needed to be adjusted to set the wheel straight.

You'll read all sorts of stuff on the internet. A lot of it just isn't true, isn't the whole story, etc...

This is my experience.

I had to make a bit of an adjustment to the drag link, and that was it.

Drives/tracks the same as it did before leveling.

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