Weird tire wear.....

[kevman65]

Check the "Born On" code on the tires. If you got some old tires, they may be getting hard already.

Couple of big name brands see some weird things if they are old even if the tires are new.

Should be an oval with four numbers on the sidewall. If they're all the same, first two numbers are week, last two are year.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I try to stay ahead of wear patterns, since tires never true themselves up very well.

That's why I have a concern at all - once they wear like that, it's not like the road will fix them.

I learned years ago when I align a solid axle vehicle to go to the screen that gives me total toe. I set it to the preferred setting, then I deal with the steer ahead.

Yeah, on IFS it's simple to set the wheel straight ahead and then adjust each side individually, but I still always took them for a test drive to verify.
On the solid axles, it's easier, at least for me, to set total toe and then center the wheel.
The dealership did the steering gear TSB on mine using the first versions of the document, which did not include checking alignment, etc. So after they replaced the replacement because it had gone bad, I took them the latest TSB and said - looks like you owe me an alignment according to this. They said "it's in specs". I hate that - the specs are a pretty wide range and sometimes you use the outer edges of specs to compensate for wear, certain roads or conditions or whatever. IMO, mine is a bit much on toe. 9/32" total is over 1/4" and on a vehicle with no appreciable wear, it seems a bit much.

LOL - you've done alignments, obviously.

 

[Charles 236]

Many times. Sounds like you follow the same technique as me for alignments. I'm semi retired, so I don't get much practice anymore. But the main thing that the dealership wants me around for is to "season" the younger techs. I often find them trying to do solid axle alignments using the readouts for the individual front tires. They end up running in circles because they don't understand how one side affects the other on a solid axle. Another thing I like to do is drive the vehicle before an alignment to see if it needs something in particular corrected. Of course I always drive after I finish to verify that my alignment is right.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Check the "Born On" code on the tires. If you got some old tires, they may be getting hard already.

Couple of big name brands see some weird things if they are old even if the tires are new.

Should be an oval with four numbers on the sidewall. If they're all the same, first two numbers are week, last two are year.

No problem there, made just about a month or so before I bought them -
date on tires 1521, 15th week of 2021 I believe I got them in May last year.

Another thing I like to do is drive the vehicle before an alignment to see if it needs something in particular corrected. Of course I always drive after I finish to verify that my alignment is right.

That's how we were taught in college - the customer doesn't always know a pull from a whatever. Drive it, you'll know of issues the customer may not know is an issue, you'll know how the wheel sits and more.
I worked through college doing brakes, alignments and some exhaust to pay the bills.

 

[Rocksalt]

the place I go to has road force balance. I will have them check my alignment specs. something tells me it might be the diff between OEM and aftermarket wheels in my situation ...will find out and share

 

[Not2Late]

All of my Jeeps have always worn the same way. If you figure it out please let us know.

I just checked my truck. I recently lifted it and replaced the stock LT285 Falkens with LT315 versions. The new tires have this "feathering" on the outside tread of the front tires only. You can feel it when you run your hand over it and catch the slight ridge between the groves and the blocks. This is about 1k miles into the new tires.

The stack of takeoff wheels and tires (with about 10k miles on them) is in my garage. Checked them, and the same thing! Just on two of the wheels. Leads me to think the dealer did not do the tire rotation a while back when they did the jeep wave free oil/rotation service.

Checked my wife's 2017 JK which is running Lt265 Falkens - and I found the same thing. On all the tires because I rotate them regularly.

I am reasonably sure my toe is good, but I will take it in to check. I find it intersting that this wear started happening on the stock truck/tires right from the factory and my wife's jeep is also experiencing it. I am leaning towards thinking this is somewhat related to the larger AT time tires and the scrub created going around corners.

 

[XJFanatic]

It’s pretty normal on solid axle vehicles. Every daily driver I have had for the past 22 years has had this issue. Street, AT, or MT no difference. It’s better when driving highways but on heavily crowned back roads it’s worse. It gets worse as you start messing with the scrub radius. Just rotate your tires and forget about it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Mine is almost always on decent roads and mostly highway driving.
No changes from factory in scrub radius. It's factory in that manner.
For as much as I complain about our highways and roads here, they beat what a lot of others in the country drive on.
I've never had another truck wear like this.

 

[Vtur]

I do 4 tires rotations. LF to LR and RF to RR. Both mine previous 5k miles 33s and now 8k miles 37s tires wear evenly all around. I was told by a Honda engineer, not to criss-cross rotation to avoids radial tires reverse flexing that can deform the tread.

I know this only applies to unidirectional tires but i do it for all tires.

 

[CerOf]

If I rotate at intervals more than 3k, it visually does this. If I rotate every 3k, it can usually only be felt by running your hand.

Every solid axle Jeep I’ve owned has done this, except my ZJ.

The tie rod is the biggest difference from ZJ to a WJ, JK, JL, JT. The ZJ was tied in to fhe drag link. The others are knuckle to knuckle.

So, perhaps, the tie rod is the culprit?

Perhaps it has some flex/give or harmonic type oscillations? Rapidly altering the toe, ever so slightly, like hundredths or thousandths of an inch.

I know larger(heavier) tires made it show faster. Larger tires acting as a lever to induce this flex/oscillation.
This could support my tie rod theory.

PS I’m using big words to make myself sound smarter than I am.

PSS I think I might be on to something.

 

[XJFanatic]

If I rotate at intervals more than 3k, it visually does this. If I rotate every 3k, it can usually only be felt by running your hand.

Every solid axle Jeep I’ve owned has done this, except my ZJ.

The tie rod is the biggest difference from ZJ to a WJ, JK, JL, JT. The ZJ was tied in to fhe drag link. The others are knuckle to knuckle.

So, perhaps, the tie rod is the culprit?

Perhaps it has some flex/give or harmonic type oscillations? Rapidly altering the toe, ever so slightly, like hundredths or thousandths of an inch.

I know larger(heavier) tires made it show faster. Larger tires acting as a lever to induce this flex/oscillation.
This could support my tie rod theory.

PS I’m using big words to make myself sound smarter than I am.

PSS I think I might be on to something.

The tie rod probably has something to do with it. With cross over steering your toe is always constant. On the ZJ it changed with suspension travel.

Your comment about larger tires ties Into scrub radius.

Also, just because it’s factory scrub doesn’t mean it’s good. There were definitely some compromises in the steering department on the JL/JT platforms. Look at all versions minus extreme recon and 392. They have the same backspacing with the possibility of 4 different tire sizes. That’s 4 different scrub radius possibilities.

Same goes with control arms and factory ride height, leading to terrible caster numbers from the factory.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I do 4 tires rotations. LF to LR and RF to RR. Both mine previous 5k miles 33s and now 8k miles 37s tires wear evenly all around. I was told by a Honda engineer, not to criss-cross rotation to avoids radial tires reverse flexing that can deform the tread.

I know this only applies to unidirectional tires but i do it for all tires.

Yeah, that went away long ago....................
It was really a bad thing for nylon belted tires. An instructor on steering and suspension did a neat little demo for us showing what happened with nylon cords - he showed how strong they were with a strip of nylon tape. He couldn't tear or rip it and he flexed the heck out of it - one way.
Then he flexed it the other way - and broke it by hand.
We've been doing steel belted radial rotations in the crossing patterns for decades now. But then, tire technology has changed, too - when we first started selling radial tires in the 70s we were instructed to NOT cross them side to side. Then years later - it's ok, it's even in the book to do it that way.

So, perhaps, the tie rod is the culprit?

Toe is constant on bumps and humps and dips. It does change on turns - toe out on turns. When you turn the outer tire moves in a larger arc or circle so the tires toe out when you make a turn.
If you measured the toe with the tires turned either left or right, they'd be toed out, not in.

I know larger(heavier) tires made it show faster.

Taller tires change the scrub radius. If it's marginal and then you put on different diameter tires,
Larger diameter makes scrub radius less negative, or if it's on the positive side - makes it more positive.

Changing wheels can also mess that up. People put in spacers, deeper wheels, whatever, and then gripe about issues - self-introduced in many cases.

My truck handles like a dream, steers great, rides great, and now that it's back to stock, it handles bumps, tracks, pavement heaves, expansion joints that the heat and ice have offset - not a problem. In fact, back to factory, I don't even feel many of the expansion joints on bridges any more. So the factory settings were great.

Of all of the Grand Cherokees we've owned, and we've had them since day one for the GC, examples of every platform, we've never ever seen uneven tire wear, any tire issues, or any steering or handling or ride quality issues. They were all perfectly well-behaved.
They were my wife's vehicle of choice because they handled and rode so nice and were comfortable. I give her her choice of any SUV, any Jeep, when it's time for a new one and every time - it's back to Grand Cherokee. Of course now they are totally different since the WK platform, but the ZJ and WJ never caused us any issues with tires or anything else.

 

[Vtur]

Yeah, that went away long ago....................
It was really a bad thing for nylon belted tires. An instructor on steering and suspension did a neat little demo for us showing what happened with nylon cords - he showed how strong they were with a strip of nylon tape. He couldn't tear or rip it and he flexed the heck out of it - one way.
Then he flexed it the other way - and broke it by hand.
We've been doing steel belted radial rotations in the crossing patterns for decades now. But then, tire technology has changed, too - when we first started selling radial tires in the 70s we were instructed to NOT cross them side to side. Then years later - it's ok, it's even in the book to do it that way.



Toe is constant on bumps and humps and dips. It does change on turns - toe out on turns. When you turn the outer tire moves in a larger arc or circle so the tires toe out when you make a turn.
If you measured the toe with the tires turned either left or right, they'd be toed out, not in.



Taller tires change the scrub radius. If it's marginal and then you put on different diameter tires,
Larger diameter makes scrub radius less negative, or if it's on the positive side - makes it more positive.

Changing wheels can also mess that up. People put in spacers, deeper wheels, whatever, and then gripe about issues - self-introduced in many cases.

My truck handles like a dream, steers great, rides great, and now that it's back to stock, it handles bumps, tracks, pavement heaves, expansion joints that the heat and ice have offset - not a problem. In fact, back to factory, I don't even feel many of the expansion joints on bridges any more. So the factory settings were great.

Of all of the Grand Cherokees we've owned, and we've had them since day one for the GC, examples of every platform, we've never ever seen uneven tire wear, any tire issues, or any steering or handling or ride quality issues. They were all perfectly well-behaved.
They were my wife's vehicle of choice because they handled and rode so nice and were comfortable. I give her her choice of any SUV, any Jeep, when it's time for a new one and every time - it's back to Grand Cherokee. Of course now they are totally different since the WK platform, but the ZJ and WJ never caused us any issues with tires or anything else.

Even with steel belt.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Even with steel belt.

What even with steel belt? There was a lot said there............

Tire companies have been talking the current rotation patterns for many years, with no ill effects.
I've been rotating the tires on my cars and trucks using that pattern for decades, no troubles, usually they wear out from high miles or age out without issue.
Jeep, tire rack, discount tire, you name it, they recommend the current x-patterns.

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