Some Of Jeep's Best Customers Simply Can't Afford A Jeep Anymore

[Deleted member 57233]

Agreed, but the root cause isn't corporations all happening to get that same idea at the same time. They're getting that direction from a common source.

Take the tinfoil off for a minute. They didn't all get it at the same time, subscriptions have been around for hundreds of years. Every industry wants to be able to charge you monthly or yearly for a product, but it has to be something they can turn off if you stop the subscription. Software advances and connectivity are what have allowed it to spread to everything recently.

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[jeepers29]

They can still afford it, longer term loans are becoming the norm now, and the auto industry is eating it up. 10 year car loans will become more common, and people won't care as long as the monthly payment is right.

They will care when they go to trade it in and are way upside down on equity, but until then, you are correct. They will not care.

 

[TheDerb]

Oh Great. A Jalopnik article on Jeeps. Let me count how many comments it takes for the inflation apologists to mention inflation being the reason (although they hate it!) for high pricing... Let me blow a blood vessel from reading what a stranger says about inflation. Maybe I'll get 5 comments in before it happens. Nope, 3.

"Accounting for inflation, a base wrangler is no more expensive than it was in 1987 with the same equipment, believe it or not."

INFLATION IS THE WORST POSSIBLE MEASURE TO JUSTIFY INCREASES IN BASE PRICING OF A MODEL OVER A SPAN OF YEARS.

Everyone needs to stop looking at "inflation" as some justification for pricing. A Wrangler Sport X cost $18k in 2003. A Honda Civic EX cost the same price. A Wrangler Sport S (realistically the closest to the "X" trim) costs $40,000 today. A Honda Civic EX costs $26,000 today.

Let's look at a few vehicles that cost $18k (or less) in 2003: Nissan Altima. Ford Mustang V6. Ford Ranger XLT. Toyota Tacoma- $14k. Camry? $19k. Starts at $26k today.

None of these vehicles START at over 2x the price that they did 20 years ago. With the exception of the Wrangler.

The Ranger, which I argue that the previous generation Rangers are more fairly in line with the maverick, are the most expensive thing on that list comparitively, but that's a dubious distinction. Because the Maverick is even cheaper. (and don't give me the dealer markup argument- the manufacturer sells it for a price, dealerships are responsible for market markups- Stellantis is responsible for Jeeps being outrageously priced.

People are kidding themselves when they say "oh, it makes sense because inflation". Nope. It doesn't make sense.

A customer looking at an Altima, Camry, Civic, Ranger, Wrangler, or base mustang 20 years ago would be able to tell a sales person "hey, my budget is $20k", and the sales person would say "OK". We can do that for everything.

If a customer today is looking at an Altima, Camry, Civic, Ranger, Wrangler, or base mustang, and they said "Hey, my budget is no more than $28k", all of those vehicles would still be available- except the Wrangler.

So, if inflation is the reason for this, can somebody tell me why everybody else managed to avoid this "inflation" boogeyman?

 

[KrashEd]

I think Jeep would take the stance that they aren't their best customers if they can't afford it.

 

[texanjeeper]

18 year car note? Jeep owners by and large don't even keep their Jeep longer than 2 years. They dump $50,000 into their project, then sell it and move on. For a loss, I'm guessing.

 

[BearFootSam]

My rule of thumb is that if you can't pay it off while it's still under warranty, it's too expensive. I don't buy extended service plans or warranties, my logic being to pay it off, set aside maintenance funds ("pay yourself" an additional 4-5 months. payments into savings after payoff), if it breaks, fix it.

If you take care of your vehicles, do required maintenance on schedule, and adhere to the above, unless you get a lemon, you should expect a solid 10 years / 200k miles from any late model vehicle.

Jeeps are expensive, my Rubicon is the most costly vehicle I've owned, but for the capability and build I think in the spectrum of current inflated values, it is reasonable-ish. I'm gratefully in a place in life where I can afford the truck and its want vs need proposition. From my years in the Army though, I'll forever grimace when I see a 20-30-year-old driving a $50-60k vehicle while still renting and living in the barracks.

Affordability is truly a lifecycle assessment. Affording the purchase is one piece, but you also need to afford proper insurance, maintenance, and servicing for any financing. Current interest rates should dictate paying off a loan ASAP vs just extending it out 6-8 years, at which point you are in a financial trap. It might be an unpopular opinion, loans 5 years or longer are a trap for those who can't afford what they're buying. I realize that means a significant portion of the American public cannot afford a majority of new vehicles. My self-imposed rules are perhaps a sign of privilege to be able to follow them, but the perversity of the market doesn't mean we should be reckless.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

That's because a wake shaping boat is $200k+ now. And I see a lot of them on the lake. Most those guys have a $100k camper to go along with it. Mortgage loans for toys ?

$300k+ for many of them and sometimes $400k+. ?

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2023-mastercraft-xstar-s-8921926/

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2023-nautique-super-air-paragon-23-8981829/

 

[Orange01z28]

Agreed, but the root cause isn't corporations all happening to get that same idea at the same time. They're getting that direction from a common source.

YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND LIKE IT

 

[Deleted member 57233]

My rule of thumb is that if you can't pay it off while it's still under warranty, it's too expensive.

Dang, my VW came with a 6 year, and Kia comes with 10. That's too long of a loan for me lol.

 

[BearFootSam]

Dang, my VW came with a 6 year, and Kia comes with 10. That's too long of a loan for me lol.

Jeesh, I don't recall my 09 jetta having that long of a warranty. However, they repurchased it from me at 115,000 miles for 60% of what I paid. It was, in the end, the best deal ever. We basically paid $1,000 per year we owned it.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Jeesh, I don't recall my 09 jetta having that long of a warranty. However, they repurchased it from me at 115,000 miles for 60% of what I paid. It was, in the end, the best deal ever. We basically paid $1,000 per year we owned it.

It was 6 year bumper to bumper when I bought mine in 2018. It's still worth what I paid for it somehow

 

[Teqsand]

Oh Great. A Jalopnik article on Jeeps. Let me count how many comments it takes for the inflation apologists to mention inflation being the reason (although they hate it!) for high pricing... Let me blow a blood vessel from reading what a stranger says about inflation. Maybe I'll get 5 comments in before it happens. Nope, 3.

"Accounting for inflation, a base wrangler is no more expensive than it was in 1987 with the same equipment, believe it or not."

INFLATION IS THE WORST POSSIBLE MEASURE TO JUSTIFY INCREASES IN BASE PRICING OF A MODEL OVER A SPAN OF YEARS.

Everyone needs to stop looking at "inflation" as some justification for pricing. A Wrangler Sport X cost $18k in 2003. A Honda Civic EX cost the same price. A Wrangler Sport S (realistically the closest to the "X" trim) costs $40,000 today. A Honda Civic EX costs $26,000 today.

Let's look at a few vehicles that cost $18k (or less) in 2003: Nissan Altima. Ford Mustang V6. Ford Ranger XLT. Toyota Tacoma- $14k. Camry? $19k. Starts at $26k today.

None of these vehicles START at over 2x the price that they did 20 years ago. With the exception of the Wrangler.

The Ranger, which I argue that the previous generation Rangers are more fairly in line with the maverick, are the most expensive thing on that list comparitively, but that's a dubious distinction. Because the Maverick is even cheaper. (and don't give me the dealer markup argument- the manufacturer sells it for a price, dealerships are responsible for market markups- Stellantis is responsible for Jeeps being outrageously priced.

People are kidding themselves when they say "oh, it makes sense because inflation". Nope. It doesn't make sense.

A customer looking at an Altima, Camry, Civic, Ranger, Wrangler, or base mustang 20 years ago would be able to tell a sales person "hey, my budget is $20k", and the sales person would say "OK". We can do that for everything.

If a customer today is looking at an Altima, Camry, Civic, Ranger, Wrangler, or base mustang, and they said "Hey, my budget is no more than $28k", all of those vehicles would still be available- except the Wrangler.

So, if inflation is the reason for this, can somebody tell me why everybody else managed to avoid this "inflation" boogeyman?

How has the tech and features changed over the time period you specified for each vehicle? While I do agree with you over all, I would hazard to say the wrangler had the highest upgrade percentage of the bunch.... and were that Japanese brands unionized here? That's an unnecessary cost considering what it takes to bolt parts together

 

[bwmarksbmcs]

My first jeep was a 1983 CJ8 Scrambler. I saved cash for a year while living on a ship. The bone stock jeep cost about $8,500, and my first auto loan was $148/mo for 48 months. 40 years later I just bought a Gladiator Sport S, sticker was $53,500. if it wasn't for the 15% Jeep incentive plus the dealer tossing in some $$ I'd never have bought it. It certainly was a want not a need, but luckily i was in a position to pay cash...at 6.5%, I'll never take an auto loan (now) - I was happy to get a 11% loan in 1983 at 23 years old, zero debt, zero credit, zero living costs (sea service was a good thing back then)

 

[Minty JL]

Boat loans are 20 years.

Thats insane

 

[TheDerb]

How has the tech and features changed over the time period you specified for each vehicle? While I do agree with you over all, I would hazard to say the wrangler had the highest upgrade percentage of the bunch.... and were that Japanese brands unionized here? That's an unnecessary cost considering what it takes to bolt parts together

Let's compare the tech:

The Wrangler X had a radio and CD player. It had heat and A/C, automatic windows and locks. It had a 190hp 4.0L v6. Today, you get a 285 HP 3.6L engine, which is 50% higher than it was then. A/c, automatic windows and locks. Still open diffs, and other than a backup cam and adaptive cruise control. Not much else other than incremental increases in comfort, which can be said for any vehicle on the list.

The 2003 civic had a 127 HP engine, and the same basic features as the Wrangler X.

The 2023 has 180hp- 41% higher than 20 years ago.
Every comfort and every safety feature you can imagine- Heated seats. Lane assist, safety sensors. adaptive cruise control. LED's. Basically everything you have to get a spec'ed out Rubicon to see now. Keyless entry.

The fact is, all of the other vehicles I mentioned meaningfully increased everything- A 2003 Ranger could tow 3500lbs. They can go up to 7500 pounds. There isn't a vehicle on the list that didn't meaningfully increase every comfort, safety, and performance feature over the past 20 years.

But Wranglers are the only vehicle that chose to charge what they did for their upgrades.

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