Study: EVs cost more to fuel than ICE engines

[Lunentucker]

Roughly $3,000/year for our whole house, AC, heat 4xe charging, my shop's electric, my wife's quilting equipment and a whole lower level with many fluorescent lights (old style)

The LED tubes are cheap and easy, and no cold weather silliness.

Sponsored

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think my light bill in a year is maybe $3,000. The last solar company wanted $40,000 for a system adequate for my house. Ain’t no way it would pay for itself in 3 years… not here. I also only spend about $20 worth of diesel every week. Maybe it’ll make sense one day, but not today.

Similar here - but I have to keep in mind the need for backup power in ice storms and so on. Not a frequent need, but it's a need. So for us, solar would include backup power. I could charge batteries with a small generator if the sun wasn't out in an outage.
Still, can't really see the initial outlay.
Even if the cost was down to 28K, divided by 3,000, that's over 9 years meaning I'd be 76...... would I care much then?
Pros and cons.
It would take a lot of work to get solar here - no place for battery bank, the wiring would be crazy, not enough roof area for panels. And - there's no one here that really does that. They'd have to come from out of state. Likely, because our power is cheap as it is so not a lot of demand??

 

[OneManClan]

Study by Anderson Economic Group shows (at current gas prices) that EVs cost more per mile than ICE gas engines -even when the EV is charged at home. Caveats: the study used residential electricity prices in Michigan. Rates in other states may vary. Study only measured fuel costs (not oil changes or any other maintenance; or MSRPs for ICE vs EV; or reliability). Study did not measure environmental impacts or any other factors. Just fuel.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...wer-gas-prices-ice-affordability/72744401007/

Remember - no politics on the forum.

You remind us to not be political after posting a politically charged issue. Hmm….
I don’t have to read the article to compare my Gladiator to my wife’s ID4. I get 16 mpg in a high priced gas county (average $4.05 a gallon as of today). Similar to your results I’m sure. We have a level 2 charger that costs $0.16/KW. Our electrical grid is primarily hydroelectric.
This is my real life experience and I don’t need a bunch of theoretical nonsense with “ifs and buts” sprinkled throughout. No researcher can refute my actual experience. Oh, her ID4 is Porsche fast (ask me how I know!).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The LED tubes are cheap and easy, and no cold weather silliness.

My garage is all converted now. My wood shop is next as each light fails. My wife's quilting and sewing area lights are from about 1980 or so. Those are absolutely going to LED as they fail.
I want to go beyond just the "tubes" and get rid of the ballasts completely. I'm getting too old to mess with the troffers in the ceiling. Heavy and clunky.
I pulled the last of the old style lights out of my garage when the stairs were redone and they went into the trash.

 

[Jefe1018]

40k = 28k after Fed writeoff. Keep that in mind.

Other than the Jeep, being immune to OiL wArS when it comes to personal transportation is awesome. Was killing us when gas was $7/gallon.

That’s still a bit of change. I suppose if I scrounge up the dough and pay it off it might be worth it, but even then I’ll outline below why I probably still wouldn’t want to.

Similar here - but I have to keep in mind the need for backup power in ice storms and so on. Not a frequent need, but it's a need. So for us, solar would include backup power. I could charge batteries with a small generator if the sun wasn't out in an outage.
Still, can't really see the initial outlay.
Even if the cost was down to 28K, divided by 3,000, that's over 9 years meaning I'd be 76...... would I care much then?
Pros and cons.
It would take a lot of work to get solar here - no place for battery bank, the wiring would be crazy, not enough roof area for panels. And - there's no one here that really does that. They'd have to come from out of state. Likely, because our power is cheap as it is so not a lot of demand??

Out here in the late 2000’s and early 2010’s when I was a kid, there were lawsuits. Many lawsuits. Essentially, solar city was making money and the local mob didn’t like it. However those settled, you have to pay the power company now to do a “study” before they, a private for profit utility company, will “approve you” for solar. You’ll then be installed, but on the grid. If the grid fails, you fail, even if your panels are creating energy. I believe there is some permitting for battery packs and redundancy, but it’s a lot of paperwork. Really silly.

 

[Tim. Y.]

That’s still a bit of change. I suppose if I scrounge up the dough and pay it off it might be worth it, but even then I’ll outline below why I probably still wouldn’t want to.



Out here in the late 2000’s and early 2010’s when I was a kid, there were lawsuits. Many lawsuits. Essentially, solar city was making money and the local mob didn’t like it. However those settled, you have to pay the power company now to do a “study” before they, a private for profit utility company, will “approve you” for solar. You’ll then be installed, but on the grid. If the grid fails, you fail, even if your panels are creating energy. I believe there is some permitting for battery packs and redundancy, but it’s a lot of paperwork. Really silly.

Nevada Energy, a Berkshire Hathaway Company: https://www.brkenergy.com/our-businesses/nv-energy

 

[Yellow1098]

Also….the cheapest Tesla model 3 has a starting price of 40k and also I don't know if you guys have seen the insurance quotes on EV’s and specifically Teslas are 50% higher than the average car. Let alone if you ever have to get it worked on

I guarantee there are amazing gas cars that are cheaper overall to own with price and insurance hell a new Toyota corolla is 22k and gets 33 mpg all day not to mention the hybrids.

If your reason for buying an EV is saving money that doesn’t really work out if you crunch the numbers. People buy them because they like them for the image/cool factor is the truth not to save money. And for me cars are a reflection of your personality that’s why we buy what we buy and love what we love and why we are even on this forum. If your personality is an EV…on the cool cutting edge tech progress “green” spectrum you buy a tesla…..Me personally, I drive a jacked up badass american off road get dirty Jeep and a 900hp 77 trans am…so that’s my personalty!

Also this is just my opinion....everyone is free to like what they like but let’s not pretend its anything else

 

[ecidiego]

If your reason for buying an EV is saving money that doesn’t really work out if you crunch the numbers.

False. We are saving $6,000/year as all charging is done at home on a paid for solar array. Insurance is about the same as my Mojave. A Model Y RWD is 36k brand new. The $7500 is taken at point of sale as of now. I couldn't care less about image or 'green' anything.

The fact is the Model Y saves us a shitload of money given our driving habits. Numbers crunched.

All you did is make a bunch of assumptions based on your personal opinion and not actual experience.

 

[ecidiego]

I don't assume anything about car buyers of any type.....people sure LOVE to assume ignorant shit about EV buyers....

 

[Yellow1098]

False. We are saving $6,000/year as all charging is done at home on a paid for solar array. Insurance is about the same as my Mojave. A Model Y RWD is 36k brand new. The $7500 is taken at point of sale as of now. I couldn't care less about image or 'green' anything.

The fact is the Model Y saves us a shitload of money given our driving habits. Numbers crunched.

All you did is make a bunch of assumptions based on your personal opinion and not actual experience.

Wasn’t trying to offend but out of curiosity how much did the Solar array cost all in?

 

[ecidiego]

Wasn’t trying to offend but out of curiosity how much did the Solar array cost all in?

25k. Eliminated 5k yearly power bill and 6k gasoline the wife burned on fuel ferrying 3 kids around to 3 different schools and 5 different sports.

Power would likely be 8k a year now....prices have skyrocketed. Costs us nothing.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ours works out fine.
The "cool factor" is the POWER. The weight distribution is amazing - sure-footed with our snow and ice.
Dirt cheap to charge.
And, again, it's how it's used. For our purposes and our use, it's a huge savings in "energy used per mile".
My take - if you don't like them, don't want them, whatever, then don't buy one. Pretty simple - better than assuming reasons other people buy anything.

Yeah, I'm REALLY thinking GREEN! LOL, right. Uhuh...........360, dual quads, can smell the fuel running through it, one of my summer drivers. My other - well, it's a bit better, but no CAT under the car, modified 4.0, really green for sure.
But the 4xe has more power and torque right off the line and does it on minimal energy so I guess it helps make up for my excesses in other areas?
Or maybe we just liked it?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

25k. Eliminated 5k yearly power bill and 6k gasoline the wife burned on fuel ferrying 3 kids around to 3 different schools and 5 different sports.

Power would likely be 8k a year now....prices have skyrocketed. Costs us nothing.

Let me throw a "yeah........ but........." at you if I may -
Batteries.
Do you factor in the battery costs over time?
You have to have a place to store the energy, a wall of batteries, for example. They will go bad over time and you have to replace them, correct?
How many batteries and how long do they typically last?

That's MY fear - beside our cheap power making payback way out there in years, even a decade in our case, then you have MAINTENANCE - batteries and solar panels have a finite life span themselves.

 

[Yellow1098]

Im just saying 25k+37K so about 62k plus high insurance not to mention if anything breaks on them. A 22k 35mpg car with cheaper insurance might be cheaper in the long run ….40k in gas can go a loonnnggg way

Sponsored