For Me, No More Wheeling at Large Events

[WILDHOBO]

Always willing to lend an ear or a hand or whatever you need. You are by far an awesome and genuine person and I hate the trip turned out the way it did for you. Need to plan a trip out to CO when the Wildhobo makes it back on the trails so that we can wheel together!

I can’t wait. I’m hoping it’s back sooner than I expect. Thanks for taking the time you did to let me vent. I had calmed down a bit by then, but it really helped. No one is Superman. Everyone needs to talk shit out from time to time.

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[WILDHOBO]

Dan - I completely understand your position. It can be hard to convey your feeling in words on the internet. Kudos for keeping it civil.

I refuse to run large groups anymore. The local Jeep clubs, Jeep events, "Jeep Beach", are all filled with ego's that need to be put in check. I hate being confrontational, so I will let it go unchecked.

I was wheeling Tellico one time (TJ years, 1999) with a group of about 12 Jeeps. The guy behind me broke his rear axle (Dana 35). Being a C-clip shaft, there is no way to repair it on the trail. We strapped the wheel so it wouldn't roll out. Being that I was in front I strapped up to him and pulled him back to the trailhead. 1st gear/4Lo down a difficult trail. Took all of 3 hours to get off the trail. Of the other 10 Jeeps in the group, not one of them checked on me to make sure we made it back. The only time I saw them was later that night at the steak house. That event alone made me change my offroad community attitude.

Thanks for sharing. That’s total bs. Great job being a good human. I don’t mind confrontation, but I’m an adult, so will never go past verbal confrontation. Just not worth it. I wasn’t going to even go that far with these people. I told my wife, I’d have either been dead or in jail. These few that were acting like this were just looking for an excuse to fight. I wasn’t going to help them justify it. But it’s SO frustrating to choke it down and no tell people off. But not on the trail. Even if I don’t like someone, not much gets said until the parking lot. I don’t want a crazy conflict on the trail.

 

[Janster]

I didn’t read thru all the responses…

I was going to say…sounds like a piss poor organized event that wasn’t meant for ‘general pubic’. And I mean….. a piss poor job at communicating about the event/trails involved - trail ratings, requirements, etc. They didn’t tell YOU about any of it. What group was it?
It’s one thing, if it was setup specifically for Black/Red trails…… Then so be it. Don’t invite your buddy to go along unless he/she it totally familiar with what they’re getting themselves into. Have an EXIT plan for anyone who doesn’t want or can’t go any further. That’s a lot of F’n damage!!!

My husband and I used to organize, guide, and run events back in our younger years. Unfortunately…not everyone in the rockcrawling community is respectful. They carry around way too much testosterone and think they have bigger balls than everyone else.

A group of us started a separate offroad club that invited EVERYONE.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I didn’t read thru all the responses…

I was going to say…sounds like a piss poor organized event that wasn’t meant for ‘general pubic’. And I mean….. a piss poor job at communicating about the event/trails involved - trail ratings, requirements, etc. They didn’t tell YOU about any of it. What group was it?
It’s one thing, if it was setup specifically for Black/Red trails…… Then so be it. Don’t invite your buddy to go along unless he/she it totally familiar with what they’re getting themselves into. Have an EXIT plan for anyone who doesn’t want or can’t go any further. That’s a lot of F’n damage!!!

My husband and I used to organize, guide, and run events back in our younger years. Unfortunately…not everyone in the rockcrawling community is respectful. They carry around way too much testosterone and think they have bigger balls than everyone else.

A group of us started a separate offroad club that invited EVERYONE.

It was terribly disorganized. The hard trail don’t bother me. I didn’t know much about it, and neither did anyone else but one person. But I knew it would likely be tough. If the damage occurred, but none of the other bs variables were there, I would never have written this post. We risk damage every time we go offroad. Stuff happens. If everyone works together and it still happens, oh well. That’s life. This was what you described. Lots of “measuring” things. Lots of negativity. Just a waste of a near area. I’ll likely never wheel in AZ again, which I’m just fine with. I had a great time with @azmojave a couple years ago, and have great memories of that trip. But this was not the same.

 

[kauffmj1]

That sucks man. Valid rant. To me, the ethos of jeep offroading is being there for each other and making sure everyone gets out. And I agree the breakdowns and delays are some of the most memorable and fun stuff!

I've also done many event-based and club rides and they are a VERY mixed bag. Some have been fantastic while others could have been better run by chimps. You just gotta have a feel for who you are going with in advance best you can.

They seem to have a mixed reaction in this forum, but for any beginner I am a big proponent of the Jeep Jamboree USA events. Are they pricey and a pain to sign up for due to fast sellouts? Yes. However, you will not get left behind and they will usually make sure you are in the right group of people so its not 10 guys on 40s and tons and one guy with stock suspension and tires.

If you are new to the hobby or off-roading, JJUSA is a great place to start. Its typically local guides/ clubs that run the events. They have always been a decent group of folks that will help out. I can also lessen the pressure when you aren't the only newbie and there is no 'bro' energy of guys half drunk trying to go nuts or fight.

We live in Ohio, so options are very limited out here as there is virtually zero public land for jeep use that isn't just a gravel road. So even though we aren't newbies (nor is the OP obviously) they are our only option that don't require a 20+ hour drive.

 

[djthumper]

That sucks that you had to go through that. I too stay away from large runs. My Jeep isn't huge by any means and I don't want to destroy on a run, if I can help it.

 

[WILDHOBO]

That sucks man. Valid rant. To me, the ethos of jeep offroading is being there for each other and making sure everyone gets out. And I agree the breakdowns and delays are some of the most memorable and fun stuff!

I've also done many event-based and club rides and they are a VERY mixed bag. Some have been fantastic while others could have been better run by chimps. You just gotta have a feel for who you are going with in advance best you can.

They seem to have a mixed reaction in this forum, but for any beginner I am a big proponent of the Jeep Jamboree USA events. Are they pricey and a pain to sign up for due to fast sellouts? Yes. However, you will not get left behind and they will usually make sure you are in the right group of people so its not 10 guys on 40s and tons and one guy with stock suspension and tires.

If you are new to the hobby or off-roading, JJUSA is a great place to start. Its typically local guides/ clubs that run the events. They have always been a decent group of folks that will help out. I can also lessen the pressure when you aren't the only newbie and there is no 'bro' energy of guys half drunk trying to go nuts or fight.

We live in Ohio, so options are very limited out here as there is virtually zero public land for jeep use that isn't just a gravel road. So even though we aren't newbies (nor is the OP obviously) they are our only option that don't require a 20+ hour drive.

I did a few jamboree events in the first year. I think they’re great in the beginning, but I don’t do it anymore because the cost far outweighs the fun. But you’re right. No booze on those runs. Not ever.

 

[WILDHOBO]

That sucks that you had to go through that. I too stay away from large runs. My Jeep isn't huge by any means and I don't want to destroy on a run, if I can help it.

I would not have even gone if I knew that was the situation. It was not communicated in that way. If I’d known how many were coming, or even close, I’d have gone to Moab instead.

 

[kauffmj1]

I did a few jamboree events in the first year. I think they’re great in the beginning, but I don’t do it anymore because the cost far outweighs the fun. But you’re right. No booze on those runs. Not ever.

Agree 100% with you on the cost and it not being as necessary once you have some skills under your belt. If I lived out your way, I wouldn't go to them much anymore, but beggars can't be choosers over on this side of the country.

 

[yoda13]

I don’t do big groups. Sorry about your experience. Hope you get to get out and have fun again soon!

 

[WILDHOBO]

Agree 100% with you on the cost and it not being as necessary once you have some skills under your belt. If I lived out your way, I wouldn't go to them much anymore, but beggars can't be choosers over on this side of the country.

No question. Not saying anything bad. I enjoyed my share of them.

 

[Janster]

It was terribly disorganized. The hard trail don’t bother me. I didn’t know much about it, and neither did anyone else but one person. But I knew it would likely be tough. If the damage occurred, but none of the other bs variables were there, I would never have written this post. We risk damage every time we go offroad. Stuff happens. If everyone works together and it still happens, oh well. That’s life. This was what you described. Lots of “measuring” things. Lots of negativity. Just a waste of a near area. I’ll likely never wheel in AZ again, which I’m just fine with. I had a great time with @azmojave a couple years ago, and have great memories of that trip. But this was not the same.

Sure...... Offroading can be damaging.... I don't know anyone who finds it FUN to be FORCED to go thru a black/red trail when you signed up for a blue one.

Sounds like the *Old Boys Club* ......

Don't let this negative experience ruin it for you. Next time, grab a couple of your local buddies - whom you know - and make it a trip (YOU decide what trails you go on). You gotta go back and erase the bad memories with some good ones!

 

[outdoor.adventures]

EXACTLY. I’ve encountered several of these. And once or twice have been in a spot that needed a slot from a passerby. But you never leave anyone. And you’ll never insult them, their rig, etc. it’s just wrong. An older gentleman was on top of the world alone with a stock JL and was really having trouble finding a line that worked for his ground clearance. We stuck with him until he was out of the harder stuff. Until he said thanks and he was good. I was solo that day, and met some others in a small group. Perfect relaxing day. I enjoy slow. I hate fast. I just want to be out there.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience here. It's so fun to help random people out, connect with people that have shared interests of off-roading (of any form!), and get helped out too. A spot, a winch, a trail-side repair - man those are the best memories and the best stories, too.

This subgroup of people "in" the community who put their egos and attitudes in front of anything good like this are the worst. It doesn't matter how experienced someone is in jeeping or otherwise, as soon as a mistake as made or even just bad luck, these types immediately get mad and talk crap. It's smooth-brain behavior. Every time I just think, "so you started off an offroad expert at 14 yrs old and have never broken anything or slipped off your intended line? Right." It's just so dumb to act like that towards others.

Off-roading has an inherent element of risk and thrill. In fact, that's arguably the core thing that makes it interesting at all. So again, when something doesn't go perfectly, why get angry, act superior, talk crap on the rig or driving skills or whatever? Oh no! You have to be out longer doing the thing you chose to do for fun, instead of going to the bar? Yeah, the trail gets long sometimes. I get it. But I chose it. I didn't have to go.

There's a locally well-known volunteer/not-for-profit off road recovery crew near me that acts like they walk on water. They volunteer to put themselves in a position to help others, but then use it to take advantage of others' misfortunes, talk crap, and spin the stories (and video clips) to make themselves seem smarter/better than the people they're helping.

In a nutshell, it's all just insecurity showing. Someone isn't content with who they are, their own accomplishments, control of their own circumstances, etc. So they tread on anybody in their path in an attempt to manufacture the sense of confidence they're missing.

Kill em with kindness.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Sure...... Offroading can be damaging.... I don't know anyone who finds it FUN to be FORCED to go thru a black/red trail when you signed up for a blue one.

Sounds like the *Old Boys Club* ......

Don't let this negative experience ruin it for you. Next time, grab a couple of your local buddies - whom you know - and make it a trip (YOU decide what trails you go on). You gotta go back and erase the bad memories with some good ones!

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[drewcnit]

Hate that you dealt with this Dan, I'm affiliated with some of the folks who helped put on the large event you attended in AZ, so if you want to run some more details by me in a PM, I'd appreciate the extra details. Want to make sure none of my crowd was involved, I feel like I know who you are talking about, because I dealt with some of them in the past, but would love to hear first hand what happened.

Overall, it's the unfortunate truth of large events for me now as well, unless I'm the lead or the tail and can control the ride, I usually will go with an easy or moderate group, because the 'hard' groups usually contain the @$$holes and idiots.

If you ever get to ride with me on one of my large group rides - we take no one left behind seriously. We've sat in the woods waiting on a 5 hour round trip, so that we could repair a tie rod and get a friend's rig off the trail.
We've had a 3 hour tour turn into an 18 hour overnight in our rigs in the woods, with us only leaving the trail at daylight the next day.
I've had the unfortunate privilege of towing at least 3 friends back to camp.

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