EV - not ready for the masses?

[Geoarch]

This is not correct, CA as a state does not limit how much solar you can install... there may be limits on how much you can sell back to the power companies, but as a state, nothing about your local install capacity.

In NM we are limited to 10 kW rooftop. Commercial entities have no limit. We have 6.2 kW and never pay the utility.

Sponsored

 

[Geoarch]

I'll be getting an inexpensive Bolt EV in the next 6-12 mos. Nothing fancy. Just need a simple commuter. I have other cars for longer trips, etc.

Do you have rooftop solar in Scottsdale?

 

[Geoarch]

Quite simply, you're very likely wrong. I've seen the mapping and the entire country as a whole is not ready for every home in every place charging an electric car every night.

At night when all the appliances are shut down? I don't know what the drain is, but my neighbor charges his two EVs every night and he says it's "minimal". He's a Republican by the way.

 

[Geoarch]

Not sure, but I would guess natural gas mostly. Wind and solar play a part and the PNW sells quite a bit of surplus electricity to CA. I would like to see us revisit nuclear, especially if we can force Bezos's fleet of Space Penises to jettison the waste out to Pluto.

Or invent viable fusion.

 

[Geoarch]

That's right, because the government can run and regulate a power company so much better than a private entity.

Well my experience with SDG&E, PG&E, and PNM says why not?

 

[MPMB]

At night when all the appliances are shut down? I don't know what the drain is, but my neighbor charges his two EVs every night and he says it's "minimal". He's a Republican by the way.

Last I checked, there were about 240 million licensed vehicles in the US. If we magically replaced 1/2 of those with EVs, we're talking about 120 million devices on the grid. Using some rough numbers (no idea on accuracy, just what I've seen in articles in a quick search)...

50kWh gets you 220mi range. That's not quite enough for a weekly commute in the PNW, where many commutes are roughly 50 miles/day. But let's say, for ease of example, that's the range someone would need for a weekly commute.

If we had 100% efficiency in charging (which we don't), that's 50kWh x 120,000,000. That's 6 billion kWh a week.

In 2021, the USA used 3.93 trillion kWh. Averaged by week that's 75.5 billion kWh used. With the 120m EVs on the grid, we're increasing usage by 8%.

However, that is total. When you look at residential usage, which is 1.48 trillion kWh, it's a 21% increased load on the grid.

I suck at math, so feel free to check my work.
energy usage source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/use-of-electricity.php

 

[Geoarch]

Last I checked, there were about 240 million licensed vehicles in the US. If we magically replaced 1/2 of those with EVs, we're talking about 120 million devices on the grid. Using some rough numbers (no idea on accuracy, just what I've seen in articles in a quick search)...

50kWh gets you 220mi range. That's not quite enough for a weekly commute in the PNW, where many commutes are roughly 50 miles/day. But let's say, for ease of example, that's the range someone would need for a weekly commute.

If we had 100% efficiency in charging (which we don't), that's 50kWh x 120,000,000. That's 6 billion kWh a week.

In 2021, the USA used 3.93 trillion kWh. Averaged by week that's 75.5 billion kWh used. With the 120m EVs on the grid, we're increasing usage by 8%.

However, that is total. When you look at residential usage, which is 1.48 trillion kWh, it's a 21% increased load on the grid.

I suck at math, so feel free to check my work.
energy usage source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/use-of-electricity.php

What proportion have rooftop solar? That will reduce the drain nationwide.

 

[2TH MVR]

Do you have rooftop solar in Scottsdale?

No. Considering it.

 

[MPMB]

What proportion have rooftop solar? That will reduce the drain nationwide.

Irrelevant to the load on the system part of the equation.

If we want to figure out the plan on feeding the additional load, there are a whole lot of options, one of which is solar. And expensive. And goes against the "system." If majority of households installed solar, I guarantee you the energy companies will start charging users for feeding back into the grid. Or not allow at all.

The other problem that comes with massive solar power adoption is power storage. You have to store all that power generated during the day so you can use it at night, right? Batteries. And that resource competes with all other batteries in the world, especially vehicle batteries since we just added 120 million battery-powered vehicles.

In my area, solar power is a minimal contribution. According to Google's Project Solar, my roof is about 1200 useable sunlight hours per year. It's not ideal. I think I could fit about 800-1000sqft of panels on my roof, which either pitch faces E or W. When you add in our weather, it gets even worse. I did an estimate a few years ago. It'd take 25 years to pay off the cost of adding solar panels to the roof. And that's if my HOA would allow it.

I like to Google Earth anything & everything. So in CA and Las Vegas and other desert-y areas, there are lots and lots of commercial buildings with power-generating solar panels. Yet in CA, they still have brownouts/blackouts.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

In NM we are limited to 10 kW rooftop. Commercial entities have no limit. We have 6.2 kW and never pay the utility.

Do you have a link for that? I can't find anything limiting owners to 10. I see things about you can't be on net metering if you are over 10, but nothing that say you can't install it.

 

[j.o.y.ride]

What proportion have rooftop solar? That will reduce the drain nationwide.

This is why tariff removal and Defense Product Act were just applied to solar

 

[The Crusader]

We aren't ready to go all out on EVs. We don't have the grid to charge them. Lithium supplies are limited and dominated by china. Recharging in a timely manner is not possible for the masses.

The best next step would be a series hybrid electric car. It's silly that they are not on the market now. A series hybrid electric is simply an EV with a small and efficient generator. The generator only needs to put out the AVERAGE power used by the car to keep the car running. The generator can be switched off manually to recharge at home for cheaper. The battery banks can be smaller and less expensive if needed because you can always recharge on the fly. The generator can run at a constant rpm and the exhaust can be more filtered for noise and pollution. The average car can keep 60mph with less than 20 hp. A 30 hp generator should be plenty.

 

[stampedingTurtles]

Last I checked, there were about 240 million licensed vehicles in the US. If we magically replaced 1/2 of those with EVs, we're talking about 120 million devices on the grid. Using some rough numbers (no idea on accuracy, just what I've seen in articles in a quick search)...

50kWh gets you 220mi range. That's not quite enough for a weekly commute in the PNW, where many commutes are roughly 50 miles/day. But let's say, for ease of example, that's the range someone would need for a weekly commute.

If we had 100% efficiency in charging (which we don't), that's 50kWh x 120,000,000. That's 6 billion kWh a week.

In 2021, the USA used 3.93 trillion kWh. Averaged by week that's 75.5 billion kWh used. With the 120m EVs on the grid, we're increasing usage by 8%.

However, that is total. When you look at residential usage, which is 1.48 trillion kWh, it's a 21% increased load on the grid.

I suck at math, so feel free to check my work.
energy usage source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/use-of-electricity.php

This is ignoring the time of use factor; a quick google search is telling me that there is a much greater difference than 21% between peak power usage during the day and the current power usage overnight, in fact peak-to-average ratios range from 1.5 to over 1.8 regionally.

And of course your assumption is based on magically replacing half of the US vehicle fleet; in reality if every car sold from today forward were a BEV, it would still take years to get to 120 million electric cars; take a look at how much our electricity production has changed over time and compare that to the sort of consumption your calculations suggest.

 

[Geoarch]

Do you have a link for that? I can't find anything limiting owners to 10. I see things about you can't be on net metering if you are over 10, but nothing that say you can't install it.

I got it from my vendor (Affordable Solar): https://affordable-solar.com/

They told me that I was restricted to 10, but 6.2 has been adequate.

 

[Geoarch]

Irrelevant to the load on the system part of the equation.

If we want to figure out the plan on feeding the additional load, there are a whole lot of options, one of which is solar. And expensive. And goes against the "system." If majority of households installed solar, I guarantee you the energy companies will start charging users for feeding back into the grid. Or not allow at all.

The other problem that comes with massive solar power adoption is power storage. You have to store all that power generated during the day so you can use it at night, right? Batteries. And that resource competes with all other batteries in the world, especially vehicle batteries since we just added 120 million battery-powered vehicles.

In my area, solar power is a minimal contribution. According to Google's Project Solar, my roof is about 1200 useable sunlight hours per year. It's not ideal. I think I could fit about 800-1000sqft of panels on my roof, which either pitch faces E or W. When you add in our weather, it gets even worse. I did an estimate a few years ago. It'd take 25 years to pay off the cost of adding solar panels to the roof. And that's if my HOA would allow it.

I like to Google Earth anything & everything. So in CA and Las Vegas and other desert-y areas, there are lots and lots of commercial buildings with power-generating solar panels. Yet in CA, they still have brownouts/blackouts.

Another reason to dump the power companies like Oregon has.

PNM here in New Mexico seems to be doing quite well even though they have installed many megawatts, maybe gigawatts. The ratepayers are paying for distribution and storage though. When you propose to install solar, PNM determines whether it will work in the current system. They are building substations throughout the state. Iowa has done similar. At this point the state of New Mexico does not allow utilities to charge back solar users. Our public rate group is pretty active that way. California, I read is considering a bill to charge solar users to help pay for distribution and storage. The future maybe.

The recent trillion + bill that passed Congress and signed by Biden includes some money for distribution and storage, probably not enough, but a start anyway.

Sponsored