Dealerships can be so sneaky

[ShadowsPapa]

That's a funny way of spelling "Jeep"

Looks like Ford stickers suffer the same quality issues as their vehicles. :D

A Jeep sticker--nowhere will you find the conflation of "Total" and "MSRP" :

I guess you didn't read back to find context.
People were saying that no sticker included destination charges in the MSRP and yet - they do (some do).
They didn't say "Jeep doesn't do that" - they said window stickers or MSRP never includes destination charges.

I have demonstrated that they do.

Further - Jeep shows how they get the MSRP by listing things and showing the total at the end.
MSRP
Then base price
then options
then destination/delivery
then total.
that is the MSRP.
The prices for the options is the MSRP of the options.
The MSRP at the top is all inclusive.
MSRP is the sum of the base price and everything below it.

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[BowlofSoup]

I guess you didn't read back to find context.
People were saying that no sticker included destination charges in the MSRP and yet - they do (some do).
They didn't say "Jeep doesn't do that" - they said window stickers or MSRP never includes destination charges.

I have demonstrated that they do.

Further - Jeep shows how they get the MSRP by listing things and showing the total at the end.
MSRP
Then base price
then options
then destination/delivery
then total.
that is the MSRP.
The prices for the options is the MSRP of the options.
The MSRP at the top is all inclusive.
MSRP is the sum of the base price and everything below it.

Exactly. Why are people struggling to understand this?

MSRP total is at the bottom of the build. Just like it's at the bottom of the window sticker.

 

[Initial-Jeep]

As I said, “conflation”.

You mentioned context but used a Ford sticker. That’s outside of context and well into “confirmation bias”. But by all means, take a Ford sticker to a Jeep dealer and be sure to post their reactions on YouTube or something….might be entertaining.

All that’s proven here is that both happen—it’s not like “MSRP” would be the first term to have multiple meanings or otherwise be ambiguous.

Don’t get me wrong: I expect any salesperson to be shifty (and, so far, my experience with dealers outside of this forum has been a complete joke) and that’s why I am as clear and pedantic as possible with a firm deal in place before I even consider going to a dealer. It’s the sender’s responsibility to ensure the receiver understood it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My sales guy said: MSRP is always the final price listed on the window sticker. And he said for Jeep and most others, it includes base price, options and destination fee (and as is stated by Jeep - includes DEALER PREP)


What's The Meaning Of The Term MSRP?
MSRP is an acronym for manufacturer's suggested retail price. It represents the price that a manufacturer recommends a vehicle be sold for. That price is set in a way that generates profit for the manufacturer, dealer, and various intermediaries. However, as the term MSRP implies, it's only a recommendation—actual sale prices can be lower or higher.

What Does MSRP Include?
A car's MSRP includes the base price for its particular trim level, as well as the prices of any options, packages, or extras it's equipped with. Features are typically itemized and listed out, noting whether they're included or additional cost. Standard factory warranty and service coverage is included in that price. MSRP does not include any accessories or extended service programs sold by the dealer, nor does it usually include sales or incentives. Various fees and taxes are also not part of the MSRP—it pertains primarily to the specific vehicle.

Does MSRP Include Destination Charges?
The MSRP also typically includes the destination fee, which is the charge levied for transporting the vehicle to a dealership. Destination fees cover costs related to preparing the vehicle for transportation at the factory, labor and fuel for transporting it, and getting it ready for the customer to take home.

Is Sticker Price Different Than MSRP?
"Sticker price" and "window price" are different ways of referring to MSRP. All these terms mean the same thing. MSRP is often called sticker price or window price because of the paper sheet with MSRP information stuck to a car's window detailing the MSRP stuck to a car's window.

So sticker price IS MSRP and that is the bottom line of the "window sticxker" (thus the term sticker price)


When someone says "window stickers do not show" or "window stickers do not include xx in price" - does it matter WHAT window sticker I use to show those comments are incorrect?

To say "destination fees are always part of the MSRP price" is not right.

While technically correct, They are with Ford and Jeep, Toyota, Kia and I have not done the math on Chevy yet but bet it's included there, too. That means the major makers do include it in MSRP.

From Edmunds -
7. Total price
This section shows the total MSRP of the vehicle.

So the bottom price is the MSRP - base price, options, and with the major auto makers, destination charges.

Ford even calls that price MSRP to make it even more clear. (that's why I used a FORD sticker to show finally that the bottom price IS MSRP. )

Pop quiz: At what price is the mnfr suggesting the vehicle be sold? Ford and toyota and kia certainly make this easy by declaring the largest number on the sticker the "Total MSRP", and i understand other mnfrs attempt to obfuscate, but while armchair apologists attempt to find a way to excuse bad behavior, one thing remains clear: MSRP isn't just a mish-mash of letters we've assigned meaning to, it's an acronym. The total price on the window sticker is, in fact, the price the manufacturer is suggesting the vehicle be sold at.

Yes, and includes destination charges, dealer prep, etc. for those brands as well as Jeep.

So the summary is simple:
MSRP is the "total price" or the bottom line on the sticker. It's the bottom or largest price (unless discounts are shown)
Ford, Jeep, Toyota, Kia and others include destination charges in the MSRP.

So if a Jeep, Ford, Toyota or Chevy dealer lists the MSRP from the sticker and ADDS destination charges, they are double-dipping.
If they call a number "the sticker price" and then add destination charges on top of sticker price, they are double-dipping.

 

[sdtkeld]

Of all the defenders of dealers and MSRP on this thread, please explain to me again while people buy from Gupton or Spirit Lake? Is it the transparency of vehicle pricing? Having the pleasure of sitting there for four hours While the sales manager is consulted. Lord, how hard is it to post the price of the vehicle online with the destination charge. As it is a line item on the window sticker, the dealer certainly isn’t going to eat it. If everyone should know that, why the subterfuge. Be proud of your price up front, it’s not hard.

 

[spenchey]

Of all the defenders of dealers and MSRP on this thread, please explain to me again while people buy from Gupton or Spirit Lake? Is it the transparency of vehicle pricing? Having the pleasure of sitting there for four hours While the sales manager is consulted. Lord, how hard is it to post the price of the vehicle online with the destination charge. As it is a line item on the window sticker, the dealer certainly isn’t going to eat it. If everyone should know that, why the subterfuge. Be proud of your price up front, it’s not hard.

Besides the transparency, I have always told our employees the more we can be like amazon the more car we will sell… every year I’ve been at our store the more we’ve sold…

Also, in todays market, there are very few places to find a “deal” like you could two years ago… our deal has remained the same since day one we started here

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Of all the defenders of dealers and MSRP on this thread, please explain to me again while people buy from Gupton or Spirit Lake? Is it the transparency of vehicle pricing? Having the pleasure of sitting there for four hours While the sales manager is consulted. Lord, how hard is it to post the price of the vehicle online with the destination charge. As it is a line item on the window sticker, the dealer certainly isn’t going to eat it. If everyone should know that, why the subterfuge. Be proud of your price up front, it’s not hard.

That's an easy one. They will actually provide PROOF of their figures related to your trade-in if you have one. They (Spencer in this case) sent me a print-out of the prices Grand Cherokees like the one my wife was trading were bringing. Yes, some were bringing higher, but some were also bringing less. It was a lot more accurate and believable than some of those "this is what your car is worth" sites.

They also made it super-simple. Everything was easily done over the internet or phone. Spencer told exactly what needed to be done for affiliate discounts, helped with the process.
In short - we drove the 4 hours up there, spent only 30 minutes or so finalizing exactly what my wife wanted (we decided to actually go up there as she wanted a road trip) and when her new Jeep came in, we drove up with her trade, they swapped things over while we signed final papers (took a short time) and I swear Spencer spent more time making sure my wife was comfortable with everything about the vehicle and had no further questions than we spend in the purchase process.

It was like this - - here's the price, here's how to get your discount, here's the numbers on the trade and here's how I came to those numbers. We did most over the internet. No hard sell.

My wife said we'll never again deal with the places we've been buying from and putting up with those "I have to go ask my manager" and then the manager comes out acting like they were your childhood neighbor and knew your family and gee aren't we all such good friends and no, I have to make some money I can't do any better and I'm going to have trouble selling your trade anyway BS. Man, I hate that buddy-buddy sales manager stuff.
She hates spending hours at a dealership and in the end they have no clue what they are selling.

 

[spenchey]

That's an easy one. They will actually provide PROOF of their figures related to your trade-in if you have one. They (Spencer in this case) sent me a print-out of the prices Grand Cherokees like the one my wife was trading were bringing. Yes, some were bringing higher, but some were also bringing less. It was a lot more accurate and believable than some of those "this is what your car is worth" sites.

They also made it super-simple. Everything was easily done over the internet or phone. Spencer told exactly what needed to be done for affiliate discounts, helped with the process.
In short - we drove the 4 hours up there, spent only 30 minutes or so finalizing exactly what my wife wanted (we decided to actually go up there as she wanted a road trip) and when her new Jeep came in, we drove up with her trade, they swapped things over while we signed final papers (took a short time) and I swear Spencer spent more time making sure my wife was comfortable with everything about the vehicle and had no further questions than we spend in the purchase process.

It was like this - - here's the price, here's how to get your discount, here's the numbers on the trade and here's how I came to those numbers. We did most over the internet. No hard sell.

My wife said we'll never again deal with the places we've been buying from and putting up with those "I have to go ask my manager" and then the manager comes out acting like they were your childhood neighbor and knew your family and gee aren't we all such good friends and no, I have to make some money I can't do any better and I'm going to have trouble selling your trade anyway BS. Man, I hate that buddy-buddy sales manager stuff.
She hates spending hours at a dealership and in the end they have no clue what they are selling.

Thank you for the kind words

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