E85

[Deleted member 47279]

Livernois has an e85 tune for the gladiator that supposedly requires no changes to the fuel system, good for 50hp. I would be tempted to give it a shot but unfortunately i have a late 21 and they cant tune it

ya i heard the new ECM is preventing tuning. we will find a way

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[22_Sarge_Sport]

what i heard is 3.6 with supercharger and E85 tune would be the use case.

The use case for scattering valvetrain parts down a quarter-mile of freeway, yes.

 

[dcmdon]

Isn’t the downside of E85 worse MPGs? Not sure the price difference of MPGs between the two would break even for a tank?

isnt e85 higher octane? wonder if you could tune to e85 and get bigger HPs since its lower MPG.

Ethanol has about 2/3 the energy per gallon as gas.

As a result of this E85 has about 75% as much energy in it as the same amount of E10. (what most of us are using).

So your fuel economy will be worse.

However, ethanol has substantially higher Octane. So a tune with more ignition advance will give you more power. This is "free" horsepower in that it comes from improving the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine, not from burning more fuel.

More ignition advance and possibly leaner a:f ratios can improve fuel economy because if the engine is more efficient, and can make more HP for a given fuel flow, its going to flow less for a given power.
Though its minimal compared to the decrease in overall energy per gallon when switching to e:85.

If we figure that E85 has 2/3 the energy of E10. Then $3/gallon E85 is equivalent to $4.00 gallon E10. So still a 50 cent/gallon savings.

 

[Deleted member 47279]

The use case for scattering valvetrain parts down a quarter-mile of freeway, yes.

I thought that was a given? first time moddin? haha jk lol

 

[Laredo]

Just bumped into this thread.
finished 15k miles on pump e85.
not feeling more power per say, as i hardly have power demands, usually go up the2500 rpm range. how ever driving on higher gears so I guess it has more power than before.
can stop smiling, and as for MPG, since i have a very light foot, i get the same.

 

[Mud Pie]

Just bumped into this thread.
finished 15k miles on pump e85.
not feeling more power per say, as i hardly have power demands, usually go up the2500 rpm range. how ever driving on higher gears so I guess it has more power than before.
can stop smiling, and as for MPG, since i have a very light foot, i get the same.

Um......you know the engine isn't designed for E85, right ? That means that parts of the engine are not designed for E85. I thought that warning decal on the gas flap would give ya a hint and a half to NOT use it. Lemme guess, you're one of them guys that sees a Wet Paint sign on a wall then touches the wall to see if it's wet....

Your engine, your rules. When you start posting "Why does my engine......." posts, remember your E85 experiment....

 

[Laredo]

Um......you know the engine isn't designed for E85, right ? That means that parts of the engine are not designed for E85. I thought that warning decal on the gas flap would give ya a hint and a half to NOT use it. Lemme guess, you're one of them guys that sees a Wet Paint sign on a wall then touches the wall to see if it's wet....

Your engine, your rules. When you start posting "Why does my engine......." posts, remember your E85 experiment....

I will… i back my experiment with 35 years of hands on tuning in various levels, including for OEM, and my relevant education MSc in automotive engineering. But I’m always happy to learn, so please enlighten me, what exactly is not designed for e85 and what do you base it on?

 

[Gvsukids]

what exactly is not designed for e85 and what do you base it on?

Did you see what you quoted?

that parts of the engine are not designed for E85. I thought that warning decal on the gas flap would give ya a hint and a half to NOT use it.

 

[LOL WUT]

There are massive numbers of vehicles out there running E85 with systems “not designed for it” and they are just fine. The Mustang world is absolutely full of vehicles running E85 and their systems aren’t designed for it. Many of which are pushing 800+ HP.

 

[Tripp]

I will… i back my experiment with 35 years of hands on tuning in various levels, including for OEM, and my relevant education MSc in automotive engineering. But I’m always happy to learn, so please enlighten me, what exactly is not designed for e85 and what do you base it on?

So… Did you tune for E85 or are you rolling around with extremely lean A/F?

 

[Mud Pie]

I will… i back my experiment with 35 years of hands on tuning in various levels, including for OEM, and my relevant education MSc in automotive engineering. But I’m always happy to learn, so please enlighten me, what exactly is not designed for e85 and what do you base it on?

Admittedly, my only experience is in what I've been told and read, I do not have a degree of any sort.

With that being said, if the manufacturer says don't use it; I won't. I look at it this way; if they explicitly take away a possible added "feature" (flex-fuel use) there has to be a good reason. I don't pretend to know better than them. I do not wish to "prove them wrong" for no valid reason other than to say "neener-neener".

But from what I've read, E85 is corrosive on parts not designed to handle it - pumps, fuel lines, seals, gaskets, etc.. And those repairs cost a LOT more than the few cents off per gallon.

I am not the guy that sees a "Wet Paint" sign and HAS to touch the wall to verify. I see the sign, go, "Huh. Okay." and keep walking.

But, your Jeep, your rules.

 

[Zachanadandy]

isnt e85 higher octane? wonder if you could tune to e85 and get bigger HPs since its lower MPG.

Yes it's much higher octane. Livernoise offers an E85 tune that bumps peak torque at the wheels by 55ftlbs. The fuel economy is typically 10-15% worse, but the OPs example the e85 is 34% cheaper. You'd still be saving ~20% with significantly more power. If they offered GPEC5 support.my JT would be running e85 already. Even if the cost ended up the same as 93 octane, I'd still choose the extra power.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Admittedly, my only experience is in what I've been told and read, I do not have a degree of any sort.

With that being said, if the manufacturer says don't use it; I won't. I look at it this way; if they explicitly take away a possible added "feature" (flex-fuel use) there has to be a good reason. I don't pretend to know better than them. I do not wish to "prove them wrong" for no valid reason other than to say "neener-neener".

But from what I've read, E85 is corrosive on parts not designed to handle it - pumps, fuel lines, seals, gaskets, etc.. And those repairs cost a LOT more than the few cents off per gallon.

I am not the guy that sees a "Wet Paint" sign and HAS to touch the wall to verify. I see the sign, go, "Huh. Okay." and keep walking.

But, your Jeep, your rules.

They say not to use it because the ecu isn't ruined for it and nothing more. Many states have now mandated or at least allowed stations to sell e15 as regular gas. If you had old school cheap rubber seals in your carburetor, the regular pump has would have eaten them by now. Every OEM is using ethanol compatible parts now for that reason. No you can't just dump it in the tank, but all you need is the tune.

 

[Mud Pie]

They say not to use it because the ecu isn't ruined for it and nothing more. Many states have now mandated or at least allowed stations to sell e15 as regular gas. If you had old school cheap rubber seals in your carburetor, the regular pump has would have eaten them by now. Every OEM is using ethanol compatible parts now for that reason. No you can't just dump it in the tank, but all you need is the tune.

Wouldn't they tune it for flex-fuel from the get-go if it was just programming ? They'd have an added selling feature that costs them nothing but a few lines of code. I'm of the understanding that the injectors and such are designed differently to handle the high pressures of E85 over regular.

I once owned a Renegade and the gas flap proudly bragged about it being E85 ready. Never used it though.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Wouldn't they tune it for flex-fuel from the get-go if it was just programming ? They'd have an added selling feature that costs them nothing but a few lines of code. I'm of the understanding that the injectors and such are designed differently to handle the high pressures of E85 over regular.

No, because those who are bad at math will cry about the 12mpg... even though it's cheaper. There are thousands of vehicles out there running it and they aren't losing seals or head gaskets or any of that. Your gas already had ethanol in it. If the ethanol ate the seals they'd already fail.

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