Finally geometry brackets data

[KevinM60]

Hey what is your thoughts on using the Mopar control arm vs buying the geometry correction kit? I'm considering doing the same thing. Any insight would be appreciated.

I'm installing the AEV 2" spacer lift on my Mojave and Mopar LCAs this weekend. I plan on checking the Caster before and after to check the difference. I'll share the data here.

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[Wolf Island Diver]

Hey what is your thoughts on using the Mopar control arm vs buying the geometry correction kit? I'm considering doing the same thing. Any insight would be appreciated.

AEV sometimes does a poor job of advertising their own stuff.

Here’s what they say they do

https://www.aev-conversions.com/product/jl-geometry-correction-brackets/

In plain English, they significantly lower the upper control arms too.

 

[KevinM60]

AEV sometimes does a poor job of advertising their own stuff.

Here’s what they say they do

https://www.aev-conversions.com/product/jl-geometry-correction-brackets/

In plain English, they significantly lower the upper control arms too.

I have no doubt they do the job of returning the caster to their factory angle by putting the aft end of the LCA back in the original position. The only problem I have with them is that after lifting the frame 2" with the lift the brackets hang down that 2" and takes the clearance away in that area. This is my personal observation and haven't done the geometric calculations to see exactly how much correction the Mopar LCAs make but I will be checking that out when I get under the Jeep and look at all the affected connections and also the before and after from the install.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

I have no doubt they do the job of returning the caster to their factory angle by putting the aft end of the LCA back in the original position. The only problem I have with them is that after lifting the frame 2" with the lift the brackets hang down that 2" and takes the clearance away in that area. This is my personal observation and haven't done the geometric calculations to see exactly how much correction the Mopar LCAs make but I will be checking that out when I get under the Jeep and look at all the affected connections and also the before and after from the install.

I’m not sure how much they hang down. The brackets are the same regardless of AEV lift. I had 2.5 lift and switched to the 3” springs. It’s more like 3.5 - 4”. I didn’t change brackets. The big issues AEV claims they correct is braking and pinion angle, which they claim you can’t correct with longer lower control arms alone. They are more exposed than the stock brackets. I’ve scratched mine up. But you can scratch and dent up any of the axle side lower control arm brackets too. If correction brackets should be a concern, then those other brackets should be. If that’s the concern, you can weld or bolt on skid plates.

Also, you’re not lifting the frame 2 inches, only to then lose 2 inches in that area. You’re creating clearance to run much larger tires. In addition to the lift, in my case about 3.5+ inches I also went from 33” to 37” tires and gained that additional ~2 inches of lift too. You’re gaining more than 2 inches at the frame. Yes you lose back some of that in maybe the 8 square inches of those brackets in the total underside of the truck. However, they’re in line with the control arms.

Unless you’re running bent high clearance lower control arms like 9th° used to make, you’re always going to have these longish straight arms running from the axle to the frame. I find that I end up sliding on those a lot. But I would end up sliding on those a lot on my TJ and it had a 6” lang arm lift that completely moved every control arm mount to a center added subframe. Thats how you had to do it in the TJ days. The truck rolls off of the bracket at the end otherwise I would be hitting the frame. My jimmies remain unrustled. When I hit them at Potts Mountain I was like “oh no!”. I looked at them later and they had a small scratch on their edge. No big deal. Yeah over time that edge will get mangled. I don’t think it’s going to affect things. I don’t think they will break. I can buy new brackets or beat them back into shape. I can also buy new OEM control arms which are pretty cheap. Unless you expect these to fail on the trail I don’t think it’s really important.

 

[Lunentucker]

The geometry that they correct is in the suspension.
They get your springs back on top of the axles and allow road and trail forces to be sent into the springs and shocks, rather than back into the frame under the seats.

Rancho | Control Arm Geometry Correction Brackets for Jeep Wrangler JK/JL - YouTube

As far as clearances on the trails go, I did a thread on that, and the brackets still run higher than other components that would be in the same line on obstacles.

Relocation Brackets vs Long Control Arms | Jeep Gladiator Forum - JeepGladiatorForum.com

 

[KevinM60]

I’m not sure how much they hang down. The brackets are the same regardless of AEV lift. I had 2.5 lift and switched to the 3” springs. It’s more like 3.5 - 4”. I didn’t change brackets. The big issues AEV claims they correct is braking and pinion angle, which they claim you can’t correct with longer lower control arms alone. They are more exposed than the stock brackets. I’ve scratched mine up. But you can scratch and dent up any of the axle side lower control arm brackets too. If correction brackets should be a concern, then those other brackets should be. If that’s the concern, you can weld or bolt on skid plates.

Also, you’re not lifting the frame 2 inches, only to then lose 2 inches in that area. You’re creating clearance to run much larger tires. In addition to the lift, in my case about 3.5+ inches I also went from 33” to 37” tires and gained that additional ~2 inches of lift too. You’re gaining more than 2 inches at the frame. Yes you lose back some of that in maybe the 8 square inches of those brackets in the total underside of the truck. However, they’re in line with the control arms.

Unless you’re running bent high clearance lower control arms like 9th° used to make, you’re always going to have these longish straight arms running from the axle to the frame. I find that I end up sliding on those a lot. But I would end up sliding on those a lot on my TJ and it had a 6” lang arm lift that completely moved every control arm mount to a center added subframe. Thats how you had to do it in the TJ days. The truck rolls off of the bracket at the end otherwise I would be hitting the frame. My jimmies remain unrustled. When I hit them at Potts Mountain I was like “oh no!”. I looked at them later and they had a small scratch on their edge. No big deal. Yeah over time that edge will get mangled. I don’t think it’s going to affect things. I don’t think they will break. I can buy new brackets or beat them back into shape. I can also buy new OEM control arms which are pretty cheap. Unless you expect these to fail on the trail I don’t think it’s really important.

The geometry that they correct is in the suspension.
They get your springs back on top of the axles and allow road and trail forces to be sent into the springs and shocks, rather than back into the frame under the seats.

Rancho | Control Arm Geometry Correction Brackets for Jeep Wrangler JK/JL - YouTube

As far as clearances on the trails go, I did a thread on that, and the brackets still run higher than other components that would be in the same line on obstacles.

Relocation Brackets vs Long Control Arms | Jeep Gladiator Forum - JeepGladiatorForum.com

Both good information. There's definitely a lot I don't know but will be looking at all of this to learn more about the upgrade.

 

[mx5red]

I run the AEV brackets. I feel like it made a noticeable difference driving. I also occasionally land on them when wheeling hard, just as I land on many other areas of the frame and belly. I’m definitely not taking them off.

 

[Dougstdig]

Hey what is your thoughts on using the Mopar control arm vs buying the geometry correction kit? I'm considering doing the same thing. Any insight would be appreciated.

You didn’t ask me, but from what I’ve read in the videos that I’ve seen several of the manufacturers only recommend them when you’re going above 2 inches.

 

[KevinM60]

The geometry that they correct is in the suspension.
They get your springs back on top of the axles and allow road and trail forces to be sent into the springs and shocks, rather than back into the frame under the seats.

Rancho | Control Arm Geometry Correction Brackets for Jeep Wrangler JK/JL - YouTube

As far as clearances on the trails go, I did a thread on that, and the brackets still run higher than other components that would be in the same line on obstacles.

Relocation Brackets vs Long Control Arms | Jeep Gladiator Forum - JeepGladiatorForum.com

I checked out the link and read through the thread. I picked up some info and tips.
I'll get a lot more extensive idea how each option works when I get under the Jeep and analyze from an engineering aspect how everything swivels with the lift installed and how much each option affects the carriage. I'm also curious about the rear axle but haven't heard anything pertaining to a 2" lift so I'm thinking it may not matter much except for the rear pinion which is addressed with the 2" spacer pad under the link.

 

[KevinM60]

So I installed the AEV 2" spacer lift this past weekend. Quite a job. It took me two full days along with dif skids for front and back but those were pretty quick.
I took some height measurements beforehand that didn't seem too big of a deal so I haven't rechecked those yet. I checked several angles on the axle where I could find flat spots with my angle finder. One was on the axle disconnect heat shield and the other was on the bottom of the differential. I realized today that I did the re-check before tightening and torquing the LCAs because I was also adding the longer Mopar LCAs. I'll have to go back and check that angles now that everything is torqued down but the 1/4" longer LCAs will change the angle a tad.
The driving seems good. It's not as spongy over bumps as it was before but the slow drift to the left is noticeably less. I'll have to get out to the hills this weekend and test it on the woops to see how that feels.
One thing I'm going to try and look into about the suspension feeling more rigid is the shock angle affecting the feel as was brought up earlier. It's a small enough amount that I had to really think about it to tell the difference but I'm curious about that result.
Another is the best way to check the actual castor angle. I know I could look it up but I figured I would ask here to get some views on that procedure.

 

[Uparms]

I did the JKS Geo brackets on my 2020 Max Tow, Mopar Lift and 35s on a Mopar 8 inch wheel. They improved the ride quality about 10-15%.

 

[KevinM60]

I did the JKS Geo brackets on my 2020 Max Tow, Mopar Lift and 35s on a Mopar 8 inch wheel. They improved the ride quality about 10-15%.

That’s a pretty good improvement.
lots of good reports on the geo correction brackets.
I did search online for a good way to check the caster and found that the top of the shaft in the ball joint was flat and in line with the axle rotation. The caster on mine is 6 degrees. Now to look at the spring orientation to the frame. Tomorrow

 

[Uparms]

The 10% - 15% percent improved ride I got was not enough for my favorite co-pilot. Off Topic, if you want to improve your ride, steer away from E rated tires. My next build on this 23 JT Max Tow will be 35x 11.5 wide and not E rated. Skip the correction geo brackets if I can.

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